What makes Airsoft a joke

[Tackle]

as for "realistic" recoil, realistic to who ?, those of us that have shot real steel will know what the various levels of recoil are according to the weapon, most 5.56 weapons have a pissy weak recoil, hell I've fired pistols with more kick, but your never gonna simulate the recoil of a man-sized round, think 7.62 in an SLR, .308 in am M14, & what you gonna do with someone who's using smle no.4 (.303) , employ someone to follow them round & hit em in the shoulder with a large mallet every time the pull the trigger ?.

I've resisted buying recoils for the same reason I've kept away from gbbr's, not realistic or relable enough without a LOT of tinkering, unless of course your day job rifle is an l85a1 ?

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Imagine if everyone had suppressors in real warfare.  Then it would be like airsoft...

What annoys me about snipers is that often they don't feel hits due to the qhille suits. (or they just feel invisible so ignore hits)

I'd love to try the military marker training...

https://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges

But that'll never happen because they use real firearms

Aren't the USMC doing that? Maybe it was just an idea they were floating.

To do with hearing damage or something.

And they hurt! But yes, that system is pretty cool.

Recoil on airsoft guns is frankly pointless. Let's be honest here most guns are lucky to shoot 40mtrs on good day. You are firing extreme light projectiles where the slightest thing fucks them up so recoil is actually your worst enemy. The reason TM recoils still manage to keep accuracy is because the recoil is pathetically weak and delayed.

Sound again why would you? Even in the woods in real world terms it is cqb so being as stealthy as possible is a benefit. 

Ask any soldier if they had a choice between the loudy bouncy gun they have or pointable silent weapon what they would want.

And sorry to keep beating the same drum it is not pretend soldiers as you can't recreate war it is just FUCKING HIDE AND SEEK.

Even if we keep things as they are, no BB hoses please.

The problem I have with the OP is that everything he posts appears to have the agenda behind it of being related to his own special little super secret squirrel project that he won't reveal any details of to anyone yet he still wants our opinion on.

I fancied a winge tbh lol. 

No much to say about the squirrel project, work is ongoing naturally, it's a terrible thing to say but if I'd know how much of my life it would take up I might have reconsidered it.

Anyway, there is more info to dig up on it, but without even a stake in the ground, what's the point of saying anything.

as for "realistic" recoil, realistic to who ?, those of us that have shot real steel will know what the various levels of recoil are according to the weapon, most 5.56 weapons have a pissy weak recoil, hell I've fired pistols with more kick, but your never gonna simulate the recoil of a man-sized round, think 7.62 in an SLR, .308 in am M14, & what you gonna do with someone who's using smle no.4 (.303) , employ someone to follow them round & hit em in the shoulder with a large mallet every time the pull the trigger ?.

I've resisted buying recoils for the same reason I've kept away from gbbr's, not realistic or relable enough without a LOT of tinkering, unless of course your day job rifle is an l85a1 ?

Just enough to stop it being a BB hose, so in practice full auto should really kick the muzzle up.

I was going to write a fairly pleasant and thought out reply to this but in all honest I really cant be fucked.

I've been reading a lot of your posts on the "How many chances?" thread, so please add your thoughts to the discussion. 

 

[Resistor170]

I think you should go to a shooting club. It would take away your need for recoil and loud bangs in airsoft

 

[Rogerborg]

There is a market for catering to pretend soldiers, as well as hide and seekists.

The question being implicitly asked in this thread is whether it's a big enough market to justify a site buying a load of GBBRs with sound hogs / electro-shouty units to equip every C-clamping operator on the field.

I'd suspect not, unless there were taxpayer money being spaffed on it.  But there's only one way to find out.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

There is a market for catering to pretend soldiers, as well as hide and seekists.

The question being implicitly asked in this thread is whether it's a big enough market to justify a site buying a load of GBBRs with sound hogs / electro-shouty units to equip every C-clamping operator on the field.

I'd suspect not, unless there were taxpayer money being spaffed on it.  But there's only one way to find out.

Insightful as always Rogerborg, although I was just having a moan that is truly the question.

The cost or return is secondary, is the experience good or not, that what I want to know now. 

Having used a gbbr vector, I can say a number of those together would be amazing.

 

[Tackle]

Insightful as always Rogerborg,

Having used a gbbr vector, I can say a number of those together would be amazing.

lol, your just sucking up to him now, everybody knows Vectors are Rog's Achilles heel ?

EDIT: I might have got that wrong lol, think I've mixed Rogerborg with Rocketdogbert..........one of them creams over the Vectors ?

 

[Seth_Erebor]

lol, your just sucking up to him now, everybody knows Vectors are Rog's Achilles heel ?

Honestly didn’t know that ?

 

[Steveocee]

This one is so simple.

You want to use a RIF that has realistic kick and sound.

>>>Join the army.

**May have limited or no respawn when hit.

 

[EDcase]

This one is so simple.

You want to use a RIF that has realistic kick and sound.

>>>Join the army.

**May have limited or no respawn when hit.

Guaranteed to cut out cheaters

I'd love a GBBR for a bit more realism but can't justify the cost

 

[Musica]

True, the realism factor is nice and apart from that I wonder how it would change the feel of the game. Better or worse?

Just like how in BF I played on sniper limit servers a site COULD implement limits to teams on roles but your standard skirmish day it's unlikely as they just want to give a sandpit for use to use our toys in and them to make money for providing the pit. 

 

[clumpyedge]

Just like how in BF I played on sniper limit servers a site COULD implement limits to teams on roles but your standard skirmish day it's unlikely as they just want to give a sandpit for use to use our toys in and them to make money for providing the pit. 

Exactly, Can you imagine a skirmish day where they mandated snipers worked as fire team having a spotter and shooter and only allowing two teams per larger team? only ever seen that at Milsim games (or variants of).

 

[Steveocee]

Exactly, Can you imagine a skirmish day where they mandated snipers worked as fire team having a spotter and shooter and only allowing two teams per larger team? only ever seen that at Milsim games (or variants of).

How would that work though? I only take my sniper to skirmishes and if I turned up and someone said, sorry mate you can't use that we've already got 4 snipers I wouldn't be very happy. You don't pay to join BF games, you pay to skirmish.

 

[clumpyedge]

How would that work though? I only take my sniper rifle ( ) to skirmishes and if I turned up and someone said, sorry mate you can't use that we've already got 4 snipers I wouldn't be very happy. You don't pay to join BF games, you pay to skirmish. )

That's what I was replying to a skirmish site couldn't do that is what I'm saying... It wouldn't work and people would be pissed off. Generally the Milsim games I've played where they have limited roles its communicated while booking if that role is filled or not and generally they always sell out so if you miss out on a role then tough tits but again that's not your weekly skirmish and not done by all Milsim organisers. TBH for sites to make things work well and majority of the sites I go to do this, they should split sniper players equally across both teams.

Tangent again... sorry, not sorry.

 

[Musica]

How would that work though? I only take my sniper to skirmishes and if I turned up and someone said, sorry mate you can't use that we've already got 4 snipers I wouldn't be very happy. You don't pay to join BF games, you pay to skirmish.

That's what I was replying to a skirmish site couldn't do that is what I'm saying... It wouldn't work and people would be pissed off. Generally the Milsim games I've played where they have limited roles its communicated while booking if that role is filled or not and generally they always sell out so if you miss out on a role then tough tits but again that's not your weekly skirmish and not done by all Milsim organisers. TBH for sites to make things work well and majority of the sites I go to do this, they should split sniper players equally across both teams.

Tangent again... sorry, not sorry.

Just like how sites sell limited rental slots you could book a sniper slot/green fee combo. Again why would they want to but it could be done. 

Hell I'd be the ass just like in BF who takes the slot a then runs a red dot on a DMR and gets in on the objective instead of providing "supporting fire".

 

[clumpyedge]

Just like how sites sell limited rental slots you could book a sniper slot/green fee combo. Again why would they want to but it could be done. 

Hell I'd be the ass just like in BF who takes the slot a then runs a red dot on a DMR and gets in on the objective instead of providing "supporting fire".

Cant remember where it is but one site at least does do different "battle packages" Rifleman/support/marksman etc

Short Version - The lack of significant recoil and sound when compared to real firearms (even a .22) removes a large portion of the "gun" skill barrier.

Long Version - Imagine for a moment that call of duty or battlefield removed recoil from their games, how would that play out? People running around dumping laser beams with only gravity holding back their digital streams of death. Doesn't sound great, does it?

Turning our attention to Airsoft, we are currently in a situation where players can walk their BBs onto a target with a long full-auto burst like some sort of ghostbuster. Not only does this feel like overkill but quite simplistic in nature. Assuming we were in a world of 100% hit takers (don't get side tracked) placing a few well aimed shots would be far more satisfying.

Sound, same again, imagine if your favourite video game or movie replaced the gunfire sounds with the wet fart phhhht of an AEG gearbox.

I am of the opinion, and remember how much I hate snipers, that all RIFs should be loud enough to locate the origin of the shot. I can not stand snipers who sit in a bush silently spitting out .4g BBs.

If everyone knows where a shot came from it forces another layer of skill, timing, ambushes, etc.

*drops mouse and deletes account*

Back on subject...

Want more recoil GBBR/Marui/GBLS/Daytona are the options that I know of and even then compared to some rimfires I've shot I'd argue that some recoil based airsoft guns kick harder! obviously high caliber will be more but shooting small white balls of barely any weight as has been said anything more than what we have already and people would be firing all over the shop more so than they do already.

Want noise, add a sound hog or the incentive designs(?) flashider/light sound combo piece of shit whatever it was.

If you cant hear where someone is firing from surely they have done their job right? sounds like you are a bit salty that you get shot a lot and don't like it because you cant find them.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Cant remember where it is but one site at least does do different "battle packages" Rifleman/support/marksman etc

Back on subject...

Want more recoil GBBR/Marui/GBLS/Daytona are the options that I know of and even then compared to some rimfires I've shot I'd argue that some recoil based airsoft guns kick harder! obviously high caliber will be more but shooting small white balls of barely any weight as has been said anything more than what we have already and people would be firing all over the shop more so than they do already.

Want noise, add a sound hog or the incentive designs(?) flashider/light sound combo piece of shit whatever it was.

If you cant hear where someone is firing from surely they have done their job right? sounds like you are a bit salty that you get shot a lot and don't like it because you cant find them.

Daytona will be the next RIF I get, VFC HK416 probably.

Actually, now I think about it, it's the opposite. I'd like to hear my squad open up on an enemy squad with some loud RIFs. That's pretty cool.

 

[clumpyedge]

Daytona will be the next RIF I get, VFC HK416 probably.

Actually, now I think about it, it's the opposite. I'd like to hear my squad open up on an enemy squad with some loud RIFs. That's pretty cool.

Buy all your mates firehawks and listen to the sound of me vomiting.

 

[Seth_Erebor]

Buy all your mates firehawks and listen to the sound of me vomiting.

I'm never buying another AEG, one was enough.

 

[Albiscuit]

I agree in principle with a lot of the points.

But...

Practically speaking:

- Recoil is very hard (and expensive) to implement.  Hopefully better systems will come along to remedy that but its unlikely to get to real world levels.

- Sound would be nice to have but that would kill off many airsoft sites from noise complaints so we can fit mock suppressors to match the sound level...

- I've said before that I think weapons should have matching fps to the real world versions but that'll never happen when its so easy to turn most weapons into BB hoses. 

I have not read the whole thread, But....

I agree with most of this. Recoil I feel would add something I dont really want. We use toy guns for a reason, lets not add £££ to the cost and extra bits which will go wrong or cause problems and add weight! I am pretty happy with the state of the guns available. Its a game after all not (despite some peoples attitudes) a Role play with lots of realism.

As above, nice sounding guns are nice to hear and use but again its really an added extra that most people would not want to use and would become a negative, Why would I use a gun which made the who field hone in on my location if no one else was?

The matching FPS I get, it makes no sense a MK23 can be turned into a sniper but the thing which annoys me the most is the ROF. 

Similarly to Edcases point I feel a pistol should shoot like a pistol and an smg should work like an smg. In the sense that in Airsoft practically ANY gun can be turned into a rapid fire hose or a super ranged sniper and this FOR ME takes away from the game a little.

Also Seth, just leave things alone! Your like these guys on dragons den that have made a new pencil, only it has a spoon on the end instead of a rubber, is made of pasta and costs £1400 per unit!

Either back up this brand new way of doing things with some facts or ideas or stop trying to reinvent Airsoft!

 

[Resistor170]

but the thing which annoys me the most is the ROF. 

Similarly to Edcases point I feel a pistol should shoot like a pistol and an smg should work like an smg. In the sense that in Airsoft practically ANY gun can be turned into a rapid fire hose or a super ranged sniper and this FOR ME takes away from the game a little.

I also really don't like rediculous ROF. And also think it would be good if each type of gun represented it's real counterpart but if that was the case for rate of fire then for me it would also have to be the case for scaled projectile range.... Which wouldn't be possible unfortunately.