Davet
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A well established and organised logistic chain to support, from organic in-house CQMS at tactical level all the way through the effort to deliver strategically - Mulberry Harbour anyone?
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Waco’s guide to field sustainment
- Thread starter The Waco Kid
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The Waco Kid
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Well he does have a moscart launcher.
I think they called them Very pistols back then. ?
Hard to tell if it’s two tone though… ?
I try not to have more than 10-12kg of gear for a hike. Knees are now fitted backwards anyway. I might just weigh a little more than the average soldier too. ? ??
I think they called them Very pistols back then. ?
Hard to tell if it’s two tone though… ?
I try not to have more than 10-12kg of gear for a hike. Knees are now fitted backwards anyway. I might just weigh a little more than the average soldier too. ? ??
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Of course it’s two tone …… black & white
‘Very pistol’, not one of those namby pamby ‘slightly pistols’
Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics
………..
Damn you for making me quote that … I work in an area where I keep trying to tell people that we are in the business of high level strategy and shouldn’t get bogged down into the nitty gritty other than to validate data quality as on a valid base.
……. And that we make sure that those along the line don’t try and focus too high on strategy when they need to be ensuring practical realities including the logistics
We should inform the high level thinking giving someone a direction, empowering them and trusting them to do so professionally (and that they will push back on us when necessary)
The Waco Kid
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“We should inform the high level thinking giving someone a direction, empowering them and trusting them to do so professionally (and that they will push back on us when necessary)”
Danger, purple alert! Autonomy detected!
Danger, purple alert! Autonomy detected!
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The Waco Kid
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Some ways to load a pack
Method 2:
The one a lot of people actually use is take method one and ignore it. Stick the biggest thing in the bottom, ie your sleeping bag, then cram the rest on top. ?
Seriously it’s a compromise of method 1. Take the core of heavy items close to the spine and higher up but modify it for expected use.
This might be to have waterproofs at the top if rain is expected. Or your shelter by the bottom zip (if you have one) so you can quickly pitch it if you will arrive at your intended camp at dusk.
Effectively you are packing b a task oriented way. A “bug out bag” might have everything a hiking pack contains but the way you plan to you it differs.
Personally I have less kit in the summer, maybe only 30-40L bag so it’s not especially heavy so it’s easier to have what I want to hand.
That said this is the same Bergen with side pockets added for a longer trip.
View attachment 133627
LHS is shelter and next meal plus canteen on top.
RHS is set up as a day sack and quick zip off.
Lid has first aid plus snacks.
Top down inside pack:
Large water bladder
Waterproof jacket
Sleeping bag
Food
Kip mat
Wash kit
Extra Clothing*
* might get bumped up in cold weather.
Order of packing has been changed to make it easier to pitch camp in poor weather without having to dig in the main bag.
Next up is water. Carrying it, finding it, making it drinkable.
Method 2:
The one a lot of people actually use is take method one and ignore it. Stick the biggest thing in the bottom, ie your sleeping bag, then cram the rest on top. ?
Seriously it’s a compromise of method 1. Take the core of heavy items close to the spine and higher up but modify it for expected use.
This might be to have waterproofs at the top if rain is expected. Or your shelter by the bottom zip (if you have one) so you can quickly pitch it if you will arrive at your intended camp at dusk.
Effectively you are packing b a task oriented way. A “bug out bag” might have everything a hiking pack contains but the way you plan to you it differs.
Personally I have less kit in the summer, maybe only 30-40L bag so it’s not especially heavy so it’s easier to have what I want to hand.
That said this is the same Bergen with side pockets added for a longer trip.
View attachment 133627
LHS is shelter and next meal plus canteen on top.
RHS is set up as a day sack and quick zip off.
Lid has first aid plus snacks.
Top down inside pack:
Large water bladder
Waterproof jacket
Sleeping bag
Food
Kip mat
Wash kit
Extra Clothing*
* might get bumped up in cold weather.
Order of packing has been changed to make it easier to pitch camp in poor weather without having to dig in the main bag.
Next up is water. Carrying it, finding it, making it drinkable.
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The Waco Kid
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Water bottles and bladders
• Metal containers.
Some metal containers can be used to heat and boil water in, which is useful.
Double walled flasks and closed containers (always remove the stopper) should not be used however. They can go bang shower you with boiling water and potentially metal fragments.
Hollowed out gourds, wooden costels and leather canteens were (and still are) all used to carry liquid. They problem them tend to share is keeping the inside clean compared to modern materials as they offer a nice home for bacteria.
Bit if you fancy tabbing along Offa’s dyke in dark age reenactment mode go for it.?
Features and uses to consider:
• Heat resistant containers can be used as a hot water bottle.
• Clear bottles are easier to see how clean or full they are.
• Flexible carriers might be more convenient to pack.
• Wide mouths bottles can be used for water tight storage.
• Empty bottles can be used for buoyancy.
• Chemical purification tablets are usually calibrated to 1L or 32oz volumes. So bottles in these sizes are more suitable if you carry this, even as a back up.
• Old canteens can be reused as cups.
• Metal containers.
Some metal containers can be used to heat and boil water in, which is useful.
Double walled flasks and closed containers (always remove the stopper) should not be used however. They can go bang shower you with boiling water and potentially metal fragments.
Hollowed out gourds, wooden costels and leather canteens were (and still are) all used to carry liquid. They problem them tend to share is keeping the inside clean compared to modern materials as they offer a nice home for bacteria.
Bit if you fancy tabbing along Offa’s dyke in dark age reenactment mode go for it.?
Features and uses to consider:
• Heat resistant containers can be used as a hot water bottle.
• Clear bottles are easier to see how clean or full they are.
• Flexible carriers might be more convenient to pack.
• Wide mouths bottles can be used for water tight storage.
• Empty bottles can be used for buoyancy.
• Chemical purification tablets are usually calibrated to 1L or 32oz volumes. So bottles in these sizes are more suitable if you carry this, even as a back up.
• Old canteens can be reused as cups.
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The Waco Kid
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Water sources
“Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.”
Sea water, brine and brackish water are too saline for humans to drink safely.
Standard portable purification methods do not usually work.
The most effective method for making these sources acceptable is distillation. Basically boiling and collecting the condensed steam. This is resource intensive and time consuming so not feasible for travel. It might be the only option in a survival situation however.
“Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.”
Sea water, brine and brackish water are too saline for humans to drink safely.
Standard portable purification methods do not usually work.
The most effective method for making these sources acceptable is distillation. Basically boiling and collecting the condensed steam. This is resource intensive and time consuming so not feasible for travel. It might be the only option in a survival situation however.
Cannonfodder
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This is why I hate those survival shows, the people on them are incompetent attention seekers who struggle if tesco is shut for a day. Take the dippy moo complaining about the effects of dehydration, at least lay down in the shade rather than direct sunlightView attachment 133887
Lozart
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See, that's exactly why I love them and find them hilarious! "ooooo I didn't realise it would be so hard!"
I have achieved the age where I shout at people on the telly.
At least ‘survival’ shows specially select applicants for such skills as sleeping in the sun and making some entertainment
Meet David Lakota, ex US special forces* and the joy of his Doomsday preppers appearance.
As he lives in Hawaii he has a plan to get to safety in the event of a tsunami, he has skills, he won’t just take the obvious route heading to the high ground …..
* Some people think that the film ‘the men who stare at goats’ was a fictional comedy film.
David is from a later generation of the real unit - and due to our team name invited us to join his “New earth army” - we politely declined
I did end up eventually blocking him, but I miss our conversations
https://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm
Lozart
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See, that's the thing. I enjoy the "proper" survival shows too, but seeing Terry from Essex who's done a bit of camping and reckons that living off whatever he can find on a tiny island in the middle of typhoon season would be a "piece of piss", fail miserably and potentially lose a finger while trying to chop firewood just ignites something in me. I believe the Germans call it Schadenfreude.
Cannonfodder
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Personally I find 99% of the "proper" survival shows unwatchable too. Yes these guys know their stuff but the way they hype up the danger. For example making out they're days walk from anywhere, whereas in reality they're less than a couple of miles from civilisation
The Waco Kid
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Due to Britains historic industrialisation, population level and not especially scrupulous water companies any water source should be considered contaminated.
View attachment 135160
That said and mystic forces of nature aside dehydration will kill you a lot quicker that a bout of the shits. So in an emergency drink.
Upland:
These tend to be springs fed (at best) or pools that are mainly rain fall fed.
A lot of these pools are man made to supply water to sheep and cattle so be aware of parasites.
Lowland and agricultural:
As in the video above your best bet of a clean source is to try and locate a spring but even so these can pick up phosphates and other chemicals.
Urban:
Again chemical pollutants are common but poor handling of human waste is also a major issue in most of our rivers and sea shore. But at least Greggs sells bottled water.
All made easier if you select the appropriate non-weapon proficiency during character creation of course.
View attachment 135160
That said and mystic forces of nature aside dehydration will kill you a lot quicker that a bout of the shits. So in an emergency drink.
Upland:
These tend to be springs fed (at best) or pools that are mainly rain fall fed.
A lot of these pools are man made to supply water to sheep and cattle so be aware of parasites.
Lowland and agricultural:
As in the video above your best bet of a clean source is to try and locate a spring but even so these can pick up phosphates and other chemicals.
Urban:
Again chemical pollutants are common but poor handling of human waste is also a major issue in most of our rivers and sea shore. But at least Greggs sells bottled water.
All made easier if you select the appropriate non-weapon proficiency during character creation of course.
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Lozart
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Except that a bout of the shits and spewing your ring from drinking contaminated water exacerbates your dehydration. So it had better be an extreme emergency to drink water you know to be contaminated to "survive".
John F.
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It's also a good idea to pack a hi viz vest in your bag to aid being spotted in emergencies. Plus it's useful to avoid getting twatted if you end up being out longer than expected, and have to trek along tight country roads in the dark.
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The Waco Kid
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I do personally hate a road March.
A) Miserable as fuck memories.
B) Long history of Army training tail end Charlie’s getting hit by fuckwits driving ranger rovers.
C) Tarmacadam (I am old) being something I avoid when on foot due to knee caps making a grating noise.
D) Fuckwits driving ranger rovers.
Dehydration vs bugs.
I’ve had dysentery a couple of times. Once because I drank water directly from a Welsh mountain stream I later found a dead sheep in. The weather was very hot for the time of year an I’d run through my carried supply. The effects kicked in about twelve hours later as I passed through Crewe on the train. Fortunately back then the bog door didn’t unlock itself after a few minutes. ? A cork is light and duct tape I pack anyway…..
Antibiotics for the win. Your mileage may vary of course! Literally. ?
I used to drink untreated water on the Mountain marathons (yes I was moderately fit once) as we took a “balance of risk” chance on very light kit and speed verse how long symptoms would appear. Largely got away with it.
I am not advocating for drinking random water supplies however. Things seem to have become worse on that front. ?
On a planned hike where you are not up against any cut off taking time to double check and clean a water supply should not be an issue.
I’ve had less (relatively speaking) issues in less developed parts of the world. Partly I suspect, due to taking more deliberate care but also less man made pollution. Unless you are near a lithium mine or something! EV’s for the win. ?
A) Miserable as fuck memories.
B) Long history of Army training tail end Charlie’s getting hit by fuckwits driving ranger rovers.
C) Tarmacadam (I am old) being something I avoid when on foot due to knee caps making a grating noise.
D) Fuckwits driving ranger rovers.
Dehydration vs bugs.
I’ve had dysentery a couple of times. Once because I drank water directly from a Welsh mountain stream I later found a dead sheep in. The weather was very hot for the time of year an I’d run through my carried supply. The effects kicked in about twelve hours later as I passed through Crewe on the train. Fortunately back then the bog door didn’t unlock itself after a few minutes. ? A cork is light and duct tape I pack anyway…..
Antibiotics for the win. Your mileage may vary of course! Literally. ?
I used to drink untreated water on the Mountain marathons (yes I was moderately fit once) as we took a “balance of risk” chance on very light kit and speed verse how long symptoms would appear. Largely got away with it.
I am not advocating for drinking random water supplies however. Things seem to have become worse on that front. ?
On a planned hike where you are not up against any cut off taking time to double check and clean a water supply should not be an issue.
I’ve had less (relatively speaking) issues in less developed parts of the world. Partly I suspect, due to taking more deliberate care but also less man made pollution. Unless you are near a lithium mine or something! EV’s for the win. ?
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The Waco Kid
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Some sources for training:
The UK Mountain Leader Training Board.
https://www.mountain-training.org/
Navigation, navigation, navigation!
This is the UK body that administers the WGL; ML (mountain leader); WML; EML and SPSA/MIA/MIC (mountain instructor award).
I am probably out of touch with current state of award but just doing the 4-5 day Mountain Leader training at Plas-Y-Brenin (not the final assessment) is excellent. Yes I did do mine twice…. Everything comes down to navigation, oh sorry but your gps, fell over. Resection please. Not sure if classic abseil is stills thing though. ?
Old school books:
Eric Langmuir’s Mountain craft and leadership.
Peter Cliffe’s Mountain navigation.
The above are not “survival” but about how to organise and conduct expeditions and field trips. They tend to get over looked in the “SAS survival guide” market but are much more useful to civilian outdoor activities.
No landing Place series. Aircraft crash sites in British mountains. Sad but interesting sites to visit.
Ray Mears, The outdoor survival handbook. This is the one that covers the UK and is organised by season.
His other books are good. He is British outdoor sage. The Woodlore knife, just get a cheap mora… ?
John Fenna, various online articles, he used to write articles in Combat and survival and still active in UK bushcraft. I think he is a guide at St. Fagan’s living history site doing Celtic and Neolithic living. I will ask on the forum and update.
Hidden Valley bushcraft. Excellent YouTube “how too” guides. Inactive in the interwebs but still a great resource. I’ve tried to make videos and it’s hard work (therefore beyond me) plus an art to do anything that is informative.
Some left field references:
Jack Hargreaves. Archived TV series on you tube. I’ve included him as background on why certain things are in the UK countryside are as they are (or not).
Yes he is some old boy smoking a pipe and taking about fly fishing.
He knew more about ecology, sustainability, history and the environment sixty years ago than many people today.
He was Monty’s communications and intelligence specialist in WW2. He helped to set up a couple of British TV networks.
None of his shows had a script, just 45 minutes of knowledge delivered, no out-takes and very little editing.
The UK Mountain Leader Training Board.
https://www.mountain-training.org/
Navigation, navigation, navigation!
This is the UK body that administers the WGL; ML (mountain leader); WML; EML and SPSA/MIA/MIC (mountain instructor award).
I am probably out of touch with current state of award but just doing the 4-5 day Mountain Leader training at Plas-Y-Brenin (not the final assessment) is excellent. Yes I did do mine twice…. Everything comes down to navigation, oh sorry but your gps, fell over. Resection please. Not sure if classic abseil is stills thing though. ?
Old school books:
Eric Langmuir’s Mountain craft and leadership.
Peter Cliffe’s Mountain navigation.
The above are not “survival” but about how to organise and conduct expeditions and field trips. They tend to get over looked in the “SAS survival guide” market but are much more useful to civilian outdoor activities.
No landing Place series. Aircraft crash sites in British mountains. Sad but interesting sites to visit.
Ray Mears, The outdoor survival handbook. This is the one that covers the UK and is organised by season.
His other books are good. He is British outdoor sage. The Woodlore knife, just get a cheap mora… ?
John Fenna, various online articles, he used to write articles in Combat and survival and still active in UK bushcraft. I think he is a guide at St. Fagan’s living history site doing Celtic and Neolithic living. I will ask on the forum and update.
Hidden Valley bushcraft. Excellent YouTube “how too” guides. Inactive in the interwebs but still a great resource. I’ve tried to make videos and it’s hard work (therefore beyond me) plus an art to do anything that is informative.
Some left field references:
Jack Hargreaves. Archived TV series on you tube. I’ve included him as background on why certain things are in the UK countryside are as they are (or not).
Yes he is some old boy smoking a pipe and taking about fly fishing.
He knew more about ecology, sustainability, history and the environment sixty years ago than many people today.
He was Monty’s communications and intelligence specialist in WW2. He helped to set up a couple of British TV networks.
None of his shows had a script, just 45 minutes of knowledge delivered, no out-takes and very little editing.
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The Waco Kid
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Non UK sources:
Mors Kochsnski. https://www.morskochanski.com/
Some bloke with an accent and strange taste in hats. Handy with a knife.
Mors Kochsnski. https://www.morskochanski.com/
Some bloke with an accent and strange taste in hats. Handy with a knife.
Cannonfodder
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I've always liked Ray Mears' tv shows as unlike most of the "survival experts" he doesn't do the macho bullshit that others try to do (and would probably get anyone it that situation for real killed)
On the D of E gold hike I did on the Isle of Skye one of my teammates did the same on the morning of day 2 and we had to drag his arse across the island for the rest of the week. Not fun for him or the rest of us
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