Utility of gas rifles on the field

[Nick G]

I shall be taking 2 GBBR's out on Sunday, G36 and L85 . Both are a scream to run for a game, I treat them like a DMR and don't ever feel out gunned. Couple of mags and a speed loader and it's all good. 

I quite happily tech my AEG's and am currently doing my second scratch build (L119 A2) but gas rifles are so nice to work on , same as gas pistols, mine get regular maintenance and are no less reliable than my AEG's . Both of mine are WE , the L85 was picked up at an airsoft jumble as a non functioning gun and rebuilt. No aeg can compare with the 'feel' of firing a gas rifle and managing cool down is no great issue (hand warmers, appropriate gas ) get one, you won't regret it.

 

[AK47frizzle]

The plastic bodied AEG’s are popular because they’re cheap and that’s the only reason. Nothing to do with weight otherwise we’d all be running around with carbon fiber AEG’s. All the nuprol/ combat machine stuff is cheap. It gets them into the sport at a low cost. 

All the specna arms stuff ive seen have been metal 416’s and I don’t associate with Lycra wearing ARP9 users because it seems being an irritating bellend is contagious. 

End of the day running a GBBR isn’t like carrying a boulder. If you can’t aim for shit and you’ve got the arm strength of a 7 year old it’s not for you. It doesn’t disadvantage a regular human 

Well, weight is a big factor full stop. It just happens that not everybody wants a lightweight plastic rifle and zip around like a rascal. It's also the reason you see M14s being sold often for this exact reason only, besides size. I'm personally all for lightweight and speed, but I even compromise it a bit for the nice touch and durability of metal

It's not about being strong or weak. It's the fact that a lighter weight gun is objectively faster to move around for anybody due to trivial physics. Maybe you're an older guy who prefers the realism of airsoft and that is totally fine. But, you can't disregard others who prefer the lower weight and to just GO FAAAAAAST. We're all different kinds of people, after all. But, I would still wager that the majority prefer the mobility of a lighter weight gun to a heavier one that has more realism.

 

[bladerunner168]

No, they are not representative. Why do you insist on trying to use a specialized product as an example, compared to a generic AEG with basic functions? We are trying to compare your average GBBR to your average AEG. Not realistic gun vs half realistic gun. TM recoils are not your average AEG because they are a lot more expensive, have a recoil system, bolt lock, proprietary mags and gearbox, and other unique stuff that I may not know, which are supposed to simulate a realistic function in electric form. Your average AEG does NOT have these proprietary functions.

An average AEG is a thing that some bloke would buy that doesn't break the bank, and consists of: body, generic gearbox, and generic hop unit. Average AEGs are meant to just fire the BB with no extra realistic simulation attached. I used my custom AEG as an example because it contains the basic functions and no more, like your average AEG.

This is quite literally the definition of your average AEG: https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/g-and-g-armament-combat-machine-cm16-raider

Why would it be unlikely that the average user would have a plastic body when these were and probably still are the number 1 recommended AEG for... everybody? Kids use it. Adults use it. This thing weighs 2kg and people love it. Your average GBBR is 3kg+. Stack the mags and you get something that's significantly heavier than some kid with a CM16 would be zipping around the field with.

Specna Arms rifles are also quite rampant these days. What about the ARP craze? Even the dreaded Nuprol AEGs are a common sight. These AEGs I have mentioned are common items that people buy when they want a new gun to work well and doesn't break the bank.

All i'm trying to say is: TM recoils are not something any casual/new player would buy. They are niche products for people who want a simulated realistic function in their guns because the average AEG isn't supposed to perform like real steel guns. OP is trying to compare the usefulness of gas rifles to average AEG rifles. I brought up the notion that the weight of your average AEG rifle is much less than the average GBBR. And your average AEG is sadly not a TM recoil. If it were true, then everybody saying that AEGs are generally much cheaper, are wrong... are they?

You have to compare apples with apples, therefore comparing a GBBR to a regular AEG is illogical, the GBBR has realistic functions whilst a bog standard AEG doesn't.

Yes, the end function is that they both blow a 6mm BB out of a barrel, but you can achieve the same result if you used a straw and some lung power.

Now that would be a very lightweight proposition.

My main point is that you make it out there is a much heavier penalty when you use a GBBR, whereas in reality, it's close to 200-300g difference, either way.

 

[AK47frizzle]

You have to compare apples with apples, therefore comparing a GBBR to a regular AEG is illogical, the GBBR has realistic functions whilst a bog standard AEG doesn't.

Yes, the end function is that they both blow a 6mm BB out of a barrel, but you can achieve the same result if you used a straw and some lung power.

Now that would be a very lightweight proposition.

My main point is that you make it out there is a much heavier penalty when you use a GBBR, whereas in reality, it's close to 200-300g difference, either way.

OP is asking if GBBRs weight up to average AEGs in most firefights. In what way is this an illogical comparison? OP is wanting to know if the raw performance of AEGs is worth sacrificing for the fun of GBBRs.

Also, your straw and lung analogy does not have any relation to what you just said. And, it is also wrong because it is not simply just about blowing a 6mm BB out of a barrel, it's about having enough force to launch the BB with enough velocity to be effective in a game.

It is also not just a 200-300g difference. Allow me to visualize this. Most average AEGs, plastic or metal, are around 2 to 2.5kg without a mag - I think you can agree with that. Let's use 2.25kg from this specna arms on patrol base: https://www.patrolbase.co.uk/specna-arms-rock-river-arms-sa-c07-core-m4-carbine?pv=8833 A GBBR is... let's use 2.7kg from my WE M4. Using my above pictures, my GBB m4 mag is roughly around 400g with gas and no bbs. My AEG mag is 150g (rounded for ease) without BBs. Let's use 5 mags for a standard amount of mags that people carry. 

Ok, so:

• AEG would be 2.25 + (0.150 x 5) = 3kg
  
• GBBR would be 2.7 + (0.4 x 5) = 4.7kg
  

From the AEG, the GBBR is 57% heavier. You cannot tell me that it is not a noticeable difference. You can even feel much better lighter with 400g less; snipers take off bipods from the sniper rifles partially for this reason. It would be even more noticeable for someone specifically using a KC02. AEGs are just more effective at doing what a GBBR does because they are noticeably lighter and carry more ammo. 

I'm not purposefully trying to have a go at you. But, when I see flawed reasoning, I am going to hone in on it.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Nothing to do with weight otherwise we’d all be running around with carbon fiber AEG’s.

Speak for thine self peasant View attachment 47387

 

[bladerunner168]

@AK47frizzle

To say you average AEG weighs in at 2.25KG is an understatement.

One only has to look on websites like WGC and Redwolf to see it's not the case.

In my experience (GHK for GBBR's and TM's/G&P/VFC for AEG's) The total weight difference when you add in 5 mags is probably 1-1.2KG. 

Is this a "much heavier" proposition? 

To me no, but I can respect your opinion if you think it is.

You have your views and I have mine.

I will not add anything further to this topic.

 

[EvilMonkee]

This is all you need to know.  The last three games I have been to I have taken 3 AKMs.  An E&L, an LCT and my GHK.  How many mags did the E&L and LCT get through? None.  How many for the GHK? Well, I went through 1000rds of .3 and 1000rds of .36 = roughly 50 mag refills.  And I loved every single one.

 

[Wo1f]

A JG g36c is 2.7kg according to a couple of websites. A short, compact, plastic gun. 

People take bipods off the end of sniper rifles because they don’t use it and it’s weight at the end of the rifle. I had a WE p90 and that was heavy in terms of weight, but it felt lighter than an outstretched pistol when shouldering. Length makes much more difference than weight. Go take a broom handle and hold it out horizontally and see how long you can hold it there for. 

A few gas mags on a plate carrier is nothing. All the weight is distributed evenly. Running a radio or a hydration pack can add KG’s to a loadout. 

 

[Pigeon_Haris]

The being outgunned debate when comparing GBB to AEG is quite honestly the deadest of beaten horses.

Without a doubt, GBBr's shoot further and straighter than all but the most tuned and upgraded of AEG's and HPA (within it's FPS/Joule Class)

less than £40 of barrel/bucking upgrades to something such as a WE G36 (which is low on the GBBR price spectrum) will make it shoot better than a TM recoil or AEG out the box.

The only factor stopping you from being outgunned is the same as using an AEG, not having someone watch your back and not watching how you play.

I and a friend exclusively run GBBR's, with ~30 per mag, we couldn't believe how well we managed to do when playing.

It is all about how you play

• All it takes is a single BB to get a hit. (with 30 in a mag, that's really not that little unless you are playing a 50v50 game) 
  
• Especially using a higher weight BB, The only thing stopping you from 1 tapping someone is that the person on the other end doesn't want to take the hit.
  
• If you can bring your sight or dot up to the same point every time, your gun is zeroed, and know that everytime those bb's you shoot will send them in the exact place you point them then you have nothing to worry about. (Get yourself a high quality Dot sight or Iron sight setup)
  
• If all of a sudden all hi cap magazines disappeared from the earth, It would change the style of play dramatically (try a 30/real round cap and see how you start to play)
  

 

[AK47frizzle]

A JG g36c is 2.7kg according to a couple of websites. A short, compact, plastic gun. 

People take bipods off the end of sniper rifles because they don’t use it and it’s weight at the end of the rifle. I had a WE p90 and that was heavy in terms of weight, but it felt lighter than an outstretched pistol when shouldering. Length makes much more difference than weight. Go take a broom handle and hold it out horizontally and see how long you can hold it there for. 

A few gas mags on a plate carrier is nothing. All the weight is distributed evenly. Running a radio or a hydration pack can add KG’s to a loadout. 

It's why I said "partially", because I know the moment of the weight bears more significance.

Also, those gas mags aren't just nothing. If they were replaced with AEG mags, I can guarantee that anybody would feel more agile. Weight doesn't just disappear even if it's distributed evenly. 

Look, (addressing no one in particular) ya'll are allowed to say that you like and prefer the weight and fun of GBBRs. No one is saying you can't. But, there's no reason to say that X GBBR is better than Y AEG for Z reason when statistically, it's not true at all. AEGs are just the easiest, cheapest, and most effective tools for the job, currently.

 

[Wo1f]

Why can’t I say my gbbr is better? It’s more reliable than a few AEG’s I’ve had. (Not replaced a broken part yet). It’s usually more accurate than 95% of what’s on my field in its category. It almost always out ranges everything on my field in its category. Performance aside it’s more rugged. As much as I rate Tm recoils their receivers (like krytac) are made of cheese. Mine is rock solid and cerakoted as standard. Not a scratch on it in over a year of playing. In terms of shooting the enemy team what advantage does an ARP9 or whatever have over it?

AEG’s like combat machines are more popular in the same way Vauxhall corsa’s are more popular than Ferrari’s. One is an expensive, high performance machine that requires skill to utilise and the other is cheap and cheerful. Gets the job done. 

The weight hasn’t effected me and the round count hasn’t. They’re the only two ‘disadvantages’ anyone can list. That and cost, but one person not being able to afford something isn’t a disadvantage against the product. 

 

[XanderShadow]

I've run both AEG and GBB, and I've loved both equally.

AEG's are simple and fun, no doubt about that. You've got hundreds of rounds and can just lay down a wall of them if you need/want to.
GBBR's though lend very well to players who're a little more conserved with their shots and are after that little touch or realism in their games. You rarely bother auto firing a GBBR, but rather take your time picking your shots and making the rounds count; while still able to lay down a burst if you need to. That and the extra bit of weight you tend to get and the kick, wether subtle or hard, can be a very enjoyable playstyle over an AEG, even if doing the same capacity mags.

On the cooldown issue. Say you're running four or five magazines. By the time you've gone through them, they'll have already started warming up while you're reloading them.
Taken care of, and depending on the maker/magazine, I've seen some M4's get 2-3 full mags out of a single gas charge even after rapid fire and reloads, more when allowed to settle and warm.

Biggest con honestly is yes, in the colder months/weather; you're going to lose power, and it can get a bit costly in gas over the long run; but this ain't a cheap sport, anyway xD

 

[Biguk]

I’ve never had much success with running GBB rifles. I adopted a couple of early versions for WW2 games, Marushin M2 Carbine, and a Hudson M3 Grease Gun. Running 8mm BB’s. Both really bad leakers! But fun to use when working.

Im sure these issues still exist with newer models, I like the idea of them. But in practice there’s so many variables that they aren’t something I will go back to.

 

[heroshark]

As much as I like my tm recoil I keep thinking of switching to the mws. Then again I find myself using my rifle less and less.

 

[Wo1f]

As much as I like my tm recoil I keep thinking of switching to the mws. Then again I find myself using my rifle less and less.

Do it ?

 

[Sapperlowe]

I got a tippmann co2 rifle with 80 round co2 mags ive set it to semi auto to use it as a dmr . Its light and has a good range , mag is as light as an aeg , reload is as simple as pump in 80 bbs and drop in a 12g co2 slap in the mag and you are good to go. Most players with aegs dont use semi so end up firing 30 rounds to hit anything . If you are able to pick one up go for it mags are cheap and co2 works ok even up here in scotland

 

[Mantle]

Thanks for all the responses guys, I really appreciate it! Think I'll give it a shot, sounds like a fun challenge.

Just one last query, do you carry a bottle of gas with you on the field or leave it at the safe zone? 

 

[Bada Bing]

I leave my gas at the safe zone. Even on extended milsim games, I’ll leave that stuff at a base and I usually carry 4 or 5 rifle mags with me, plus 4 pistol mags. 

 

[Wo1f]

I leave mine in the safe zone. 4-5 Mws mags hold enough gas for probably 500 rounds between them. That and 4 pistol mags means I’ve loads of gas and ammo for the day