emilianoksa
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- Jan 25, 2018
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Anybody ever find that a gun with upgraded parts shot worse than it did stock?
Upgrading
- Thread starter emilianoksa
- Start date
Druid799
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- Sep 9, 2015
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You'll more than likely find a very large percentage of players who do ‘up-grade’ there guns would probably have to admit this happens , but you know as well as I do there not going to admit it ! Waaaay too much embarrassment !
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Druid799
Supporters
- Sep 9, 2015
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Now that I can get , you buy a second hand gun and it’s a bag’o’shit tied nasty so you up-grade to improve it OR you buy a dog ruff cheap Chinese gun (you’ve always wanted one but there the only ones who make it so you have to by there pile of poop)and again you up-grade to getting actually performing as you’d expect a new gun too . But the one I really really don’t get is when you see in the ‘what have you just bought’ thread a picture of a spanky new hi-end gun AND a big pile of up-grade parts next to it ! ???????? really don’t get it .
Depends on the gun.
Buckings are an easy part to get wrong. There's a lot of branded crap out there that isn't fit for the job. And since we tend to play in cooler weather over here our buckings need to be soft.
50 degrees or less is perfect for the uk@350fps. Soft is better here. So the likes of the madbull buckings that are all 60 degree will just give you crap performance. If you lived in a warmer location (chances are your youtubers do) then they work perfectly fine.
Same for inner barrels. The stock 6.08 china barrels might be mass produced and not the highest quality, but that coated barrel you are looking at is only as good as the coating. Give it 12 months and you'll be buying again.
The people that mess with gear ratios and motors. 18:1 with a fast motor is more than enough for most players. Total outlay probably less than £50. To give 25rps.
Doing the gears to a lower ratio, HT motor etc you can easily spend over £100. And still only be getting 25rps. So what have you gained other than a lighter wallet... The reason people do this, American FPS and springs, they have failed to realise our location (UK) has a different set of rules, and we can run the same RPS for far less investment.
The real trick people miss is a basic inspection. They look at the big parts, Gears, bearings, Piston, Heads. But fail to look at the important seals, and fail to understand how those seals work. A chipped or worn O-ring is only good for the bin, but if you can't spot wear then you are never going to get the performance you want. O-rings are cheap. Running at pennies each, Not replacing them at every opportunity is probably the biggest mistake people make overall. If you open the gearbox and it's been shot, spend the pennies and have new seals. You can buy 100 for £5.
Upgrades are hard to flat out condemn, or flat out recommend. There has to be a process to what you are doing with the upgrades and a reason to buy them in the first place. If your gun doesn't shoot straight chances are it's not poor components, it's poor fitting that has caused the issue. People are too willing to believe the gumph that retailers spew about how good internal parts are. There is no single part that will give you accuracy range and consistency. The only way to get that is to have all parts working well together.
Buckings are an easy part to get wrong. There's a lot of branded crap out there that isn't fit for the job. And since we tend to play in cooler weather over here our buckings need to be soft.
50 degrees or less is perfect for the uk@350fps. Soft is better here. So the likes of the madbull buckings that are all 60 degree will just give you crap performance. If you lived in a warmer location (chances are your youtubers do) then they work perfectly fine.
Same for inner barrels. The stock 6.08 china barrels might be mass produced and not the highest quality, but that coated barrel you are looking at is only as good as the coating. Give it 12 months and you'll be buying again.
The people that mess with gear ratios and motors. 18:1 with a fast motor is more than enough for most players. Total outlay probably less than £50. To give 25rps.
Doing the gears to a lower ratio, HT motor etc you can easily spend over £100. And still only be getting 25rps. So what have you gained other than a lighter wallet... The reason people do this, American FPS and springs, they have failed to realise our location (UK) has a different set of rules, and we can run the same RPS for far less investment.
The real trick people miss is a basic inspection. They look at the big parts, Gears, bearings, Piston, Heads. But fail to look at the important seals, and fail to understand how those seals work. A chipped or worn O-ring is only good for the bin, but if you can't spot wear then you are never going to get the performance you want. O-rings are cheap. Running at pennies each, Not replacing them at every opportunity is probably the biggest mistake people make overall. If you open the gearbox and it's been shot, spend the pennies and have new seals. You can buy 100 for £5.
Upgrades are hard to flat out condemn, or flat out recommend. There has to be a process to what you are doing with the upgrades and a reason to buy them in the first place. If your gun doesn't shoot straight chances are it's not poor components, it's poor fitting that has caused the issue. People are too willing to believe the gumph that retailers spew about how good internal parts are. There is no single part that will give you accuracy range and consistency. The only way to get that is to have all parts working well together.
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emilianoksa
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- Jan 25, 2018
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- Thread starter
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Thanks for the replies.
Even a cheap mass produced gun like the WE Glock might not be improved with higher quality parts.
I was watching this video by a bloke who upgraded to a Ra-Tech inner barrel and hop up unit, and then changed back because the performance of the stock gun was better. I had been thinking about shelling out the forty quid for one of these for my own Glock, but now I am wondering.
Which do you think is more crucial to accuracy: the barrel or the hop up unit? My G&G has a cheap aluminium barrel but it shoots well. I've heard the stock G&G hop rubber is pretty good.
Even a cheap mass produced gun like the WE Glock might not be improved with higher quality parts.
I was watching this video by a bloke who upgraded to a Ra-Tech inner barrel and hop up unit, and then changed back because the performance of the stock gun was better. I had been thinking about shelling out the forty quid for one of these for my own Glock, but now I am wondering.
Which do you think is more crucial to accuracy: the barrel or the hop up unit? My G&G has a cheap aluminium barrel but it shoots well. I've heard the stock G&G hop rubber is pretty good.
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For WE Glocks, the best upgrade is the Maple Leaf hop unit and barrel set from @ak2m4.
Think it’s less than £40 and it makes the gun much more reliable.
I mean I went from stock set to this and I have increased the range, the accuracy, the consistency and the weight the gun can hop. I could hop .4s if my wallet felt like it.
Think it’s less than £40 and it makes the gun much more reliable.
I mean I went from stock set to this and I have increased the range, the accuracy, the consistency and the weight the gun can hop. I could hop .4s if my wallet felt like it.
emilianoksa
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- Jan 25, 2018
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- Thread starter
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Thanks for the tip.
Agreed, and there is plenty of stuff that is exactly the same as stock, but a different colour that is sold as an 'upgrade'
Skara
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- Oct 20, 2017
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If it's not broken, don't fix it.
Learned the hard way and now I have an unusable ICS M4 sitting in a box.
I upgrade my guns once they break, as I don't fancy taking them apart only to swap a tiny spring or a shim (unless absolutely necessary).
Also yeah, people are way too focused on high end stuff to get range and accuracy but forget to check what makes a gun consistent
Learned the hard way and now I have an unusable ICS M4 sitting in a box.
I upgrade my guns once they break, as I don't fancy taking them apart only to swap a tiny spring or a shim (unless absolutely necessary).
Also yeah, people are way too focused on high end stuff to get range and accuracy but forget to check what makes a gun consistent
Steveocee
AF-UK patch owner
- Oct 11, 2016
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Not done it myself but have witnessed a close friend do it. Lots of upgrades to a perfectly fine gun to end up removing them all and running it stock again.
If you want a high performance gun, buy one. They are R&D'd to work well once you break into the higher price ranges. I'm not saying don't expect a cheap gun to work with upgrade parts but it's much more of a balancing act and chance than buying something designed to work with itself.
If you want a high performance gun, buy one. They are R&D'd to work well once you break into the higher price ranges. I'm not saying don't expect a cheap gun to work with upgrade parts but it's much more of a balancing act and chance than buying something designed to work with itself.
Skara
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- Oct 20, 2017
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There are some upgrades that don't affect performance in a bad way.
Mosfets or electronic triggers only bring benefits to AEGs, you only have to replace a couple of mechanical parts that don't have anything to do with gears or springs.
Hop buckings are pretty dumb proof too, doesn't take a nuclear engineer to swap the stock one for a prommy purple and give it a good PTFE wrap just in case.
Everything else is just for bling and showing your wallet is lighter than everybody else's
Mosfets or electronic triggers only bring benefits to AEGs, you only have to replace a couple of mechanical parts that don't have anything to do with gears or springs.
Hop buckings are pretty dumb proof too, doesn't take a nuclear engineer to swap the stock one for a prommy purple and give it a good PTFE wrap just in case.
Everything else is just for bling and showing your wallet is lighter than everybody else's
Upgrades to a TM VSR Springer are effective in terms of changing the innards to cope with the power increase we can have here (compared to the original market target being Japan) and a hop unit to get it to stop hooking. However I would change the parts one at a time to see if they really do improve anything (which they did, thank you AA).
My ARP needed nothing other than heavier ammo as it's hop happy. Shoots like a laser beam straight out the box with the right ammo.
I bought a G&P XM177E2 and it was awful. The factory had glued the gears to the shims and glued all of that to the 8mm bearings ruining them in the process, the glue was all over the balls and they didn't spin, just clicked. I had to destroy the bearings and replace them to fix it. The shimming was done by a limless blind person, clearly a friday build. It was awful. Even the power was awful. Turned up at a game with it and it shot @235fps with 0.2!!!! Needless to say I didn't use it. So I reshimmed it, added a new spring and popped a titan in and it works well as far as testing has gone. I taped up the hop, barrel & bucking to insure no leaks were there. I haven't had a game with it yet.... so apart from the titan and spring there were no real upgrades, more of a fixing job.
WE Glocks, as said above; a maple hop is the best thing. A tight bore barrel did increase the FPS a little too.
GHK AK; better hop unit - utter ballache to fit as the tolerances were not so good. Only done becasue the orignial unit shattered.
I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Most of mine are stock bar these and then it's minimal just to get them working properly.
My ARP needed nothing other than heavier ammo as it's hop happy. Shoots like a laser beam straight out the box with the right ammo.
I bought a G&P XM177E2 and it was awful. The factory had glued the gears to the shims and glued all of that to the 8mm bearings ruining them in the process, the glue was all over the balls and they didn't spin, just clicked. I had to destroy the bearings and replace them to fix it. The shimming was done by a limless blind person, clearly a friday build. It was awful. Even the power was awful. Turned up at a game with it and it shot @235fps with 0.2!!!! Needless to say I didn't use it. So I reshimmed it, added a new spring and popped a titan in and it works well as far as testing has gone. I taped up the hop, barrel & bucking to insure no leaks were there. I haven't had a game with it yet.... so apart from the titan and spring there were no real upgrades, more of a fixing job.
WE Glocks, as said above; a maple hop is the best thing. A tight bore barrel did increase the FPS a little too.
GHK AK; better hop unit - utter ballache to fit as the tolerances were not so good. Only done becasue the orignial unit shattered.
I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Most of mine are stock bar these and then it's minimal just to get them working properly.