UKARA Question

[JapaneseMafia]

if that is correct then it was your fault coz you could/should have declared it

by not doing so or not informing people YOU created the problem that could have been avoided

alas if you failed to learn from that experience then I doubt if you ever will

Frankly, if I were considering sticking a RIF in luggage (and in reality I would not, because I don't like the idea of being shot by an air marshall lol), I would be contacting the airport at both ends and the airline concerned too, and probably Customs as well, and only if I got the nod from all concerned would I then be going ahead with doing so.

Just get a UKARA. It'll be a crapload less hassle. Incidentally, in answer to the other question, a RIF being in bits would make no difference whatsoever, since it could obviously be put back together.

I understand well that it was my fault that I stupidly forgot one of the rails in my onboard bag therefore on passing security that was when the problems

occured however the constable (I forgot the chaps name) said that transporting a IF (Not a RIF) in checked bags are okay however it would have been better to notifiy the check in desk beforehand.

However lessons were learnt so all good

 

[JapaneseMafia]

Yup. I once brought a 20 foot long braided leather bullwhip back from Spain, for a former girlfriend who collected them (don't ask lol). I walked through Customs in Spain with it wrapped in thin tissue paper, and was duly stopped by them.

'You cannot have that in the cabin senor, since it is classed as a weapon.' say they.

'How could I hijack an airliner with a whip? Who do you think I am, Indiana Jones?' say I.

Customs do not like jokes by the way.

So, the whip had to be handed to a Cabin Crew member for the duration of the flight.

Now, picture the scene. There I am coming off the plane at Manchester airport, and I pass through Customs, and there is my girlfriend waiting for me, I walk across the concourse toward her, when this drop dead gorgeous stewardess who I had been chatting to on the flight back comes running up to me, shouting 'Al, Al, you forgot your whip!'

Im sorry but your the best user ive met online that experiance is too hilarious to imagine

 

[Chock]

And it is absolutely true, 1990 it was, Caledonian Airways if memory serves. I recall that there were a lot of people on the concourse looking at me, who were obviously thinking 'uh, oh, if that's his girlfriend over there, then he is in BIG trouble.' :lol:

 

[Sitting Duck]

OK - final thoughts on this matter......

you already have some aeg's, presume you are the age to purchase them yourself

and looking to get another RIF or your first RIF if others are IF's

(dunno how you came to own them if they are RIF's)

it is not a big deal to skirmish a few times and keep ya hand in playing now n then

(some say back yard target shooting but targets don't shoot back and means jack if you are good at targets)

heck I hate having to renew my driving license, amongst other stuff that I never had to do or pay for renewals

but that is just the way it goes

 

[jcheeseright]

Read the bit below that part of the Act. And you may not mean to be rude, but you seem to manage it quite well anyway.

there's no part under that which makes the import of a RIF legal under any circumstances. It's ALWAYS illegal, much like the sale is ALWAYS illegal, we simply have a defence against prosecution for committing that crime.

 

[Chock]

there's no part under that which makes the import of a RIF legal under any circumstances. It's ALWAYS illegal, much like the sale is ALWAYS illegal, we simply have a defence against prosecution for committing that crime.

To clarify. Below are the exact definitions of legal terms for UK law:

Illegal - something prohibited, or not authorised by law.

Guilty - having been found to have violated a criminal law.

Offence - a breach of a rule of law.

Specific Defence - a defence suitable to answer for a specified offence in any legislation.

Shall - must, will be, is

Subject to - bound or constrained by

So, when Section 37 of the VCR Act states that:

37 Specific defences applying to the offence under s. 36

(1) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct...

This pertains to:

36:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

( b ) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

( c) he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d) he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

(2) Subsection (1) has effect subject to the defences in section 37.

(note the IF in the preceding bit. More importantly, note that at the end of the list of offences, it states that they are subject to the defences in Section 37, which means, in legal terms, that these defences are caveats to the Law, and the law is limited in scope by those caveats)

So let's break this down. Adherence to the Specific Defences listed in Section 37, means that any of those listed are a defence suitable to answer for a potential offence in question. Thus the legislation does not extend to the point where any of those actions are deemed an offence. And if something is suitable to answer to an offence, then anyone who can legitimately use such a Specific Defence will not be found to have done something prohibited by law, therefore they cannot by definition have done anything illegal. This means their actions must therefore be legal, so they cannot be guilty of an offence. This is why specific defences are listed in UK Acts of Parliament, to clarify how and when the law applies. The UK Government do not put these in the legislation because they were bored when drafting it and wanted to pad it out a bit, or thought it might be fun to have them in there, they are part of the legislation to clarify its boundaries exactly, otherwise it would be completely pointless to put them in there.

 

[Lozart]

Having a defence against prosecution is not the same as not having committed an offence. Not being prosecuted for an offence does not make it any less illegal to commit that offence just that you will not be punished for that offence.

 

[Longshot]

^ The 'point of putting them in there' is to ensure that entitled groups (those with the 'specific defences') are not prosecuted, but not being prosecuted for something is not the same as not having committed an offence.

What jcheeseright is suggesting is also my interpretation of the law. The VCRA clearly defines importation of a RIF as an offence. Therefore it is illegal. It then goes on to note that those groups who have a specific defence against prosecution will not be prosecuted for this offence if they can demonstrate such as defence (such as the much touted 'airsoft defence' which is not one of those defences found in the original VCRA anyway but was later added here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20072606.htm).

The fact that you will not be prosecuted for an act does not mean that act wasn't an offence, and therefore against the law. It may render it 'de facto legal,' in as much as you can seemingly do something illegal whilst knowing you won't be prosecuted for it, but that doesn't actually make the act any less of an offence.

The term you used yourself, "answered for," highlights this; you can't answer a question if the question hasn't first been asked, and you can't answer for an offence with a defence against prosecution unless you have first committed an offence.

 

[jcheeseright]

more to the point, the OP doesn't have any kind of defence and therefore WOULD be breaking the law if he were to import a RIF.

 

[JapaneseMafia]

To clarify. Below are the exact definitions of legal terms for UK law:

Illegal - something prohibited, or not authorised by law.

Guilty - having been found to have violated a criminal law.

Offence - a breach of a rule of law.

Specific Defence - a defence suitable to answer for a specified offence in any legislation.

Shall - must, will be, is

Subject to - bound or constrained by

So, when Section 37 of the VCR Act states that:

37 Specific defences applying to the offence under s. 36

(1) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct...

This pertains to:

36:

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

( b ) he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

( c) he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d) he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

(2) Subsection (1) has effect subject to the defences in section 37.

(note the IF in the preceding bit. More importantly, note that at the end of the list of offences, it states that they are subject to the defences in Section 37, which means, in legal terms, that these defences are caveats to the Law, and the law is limited in scope by those caveats)

So let's break this down. Adherence to the Specific Defences listed in Section 37, means that any of those listed are a defence suitable to answer for a potential offence in question. Thus the legislation does not extend to the point where any of those actions are deemed an offence. And if something is suitable to answer to an offence, then anyone who can legitimately use such a Specific Defence will not be found to have done something prohibited by law, therefore they cannot by definition have done anything illegal. This means their actions must therefore be legal, so they cannot be guilty of an offence. This is why specific defences are listed in UK Acts of Parliament, to clarify how and when the law applies. The UK Government do not put these in the legislation because they were bored when drafting it and wanted to pad it out a bit, or thought it might be fun to have them in there, they are part of the legislation to clarify its boundaries exactly, otherwise it would be completely pointless to put them in there.

more to the point, the OP doesn't have any kind of defence and therefore WOULD be breaking the law if he were to import a RIF.

I was thinking what if I were to modifiy the RIF into an IF in the country of purchase and then import it into the UK? That sounds like it could work?

 

[jcheeseright]

If you painted it into a 2-tone in that country and then brought it into the UK that would be legal, however, if you then wanted to paint it back to a RIF in the UK you'd be guilty of MANUFACTURING a RIF which is just as illegal as importing, so you might as well get a UKARA number or buy a 2-tone in the UK.

I'll reiterate what Mack said, stop trying to look for loopholes, it just makes you look like a dick.

 

[JapaneseMafia]

If you painted it into a 2-tone in that country and then brought it into the UK that would be legal, however, if you then wanted to paint it back to a RIF in the UK you'd be guilty of MANUFACTURING a RIF which is just as illegal as importing, so you might as well get a UKARA number or buy a 2-tone in the UK.

Aye, Ill do that then I can paint it blue so it wouldnt look that bad and the reason why Im not purchasing it in the UK is because it is either out of stock or too expensive. Im also not trying to be a dick its just that I do not understand the laws completely regarding airsoft. Thanks for that advice anyway.

 

[GingerBreadMan]