UK law on shooting a RIF in a garden

[Rogerborg]

No such thing [as a licence to play with an airsoft toy]

Did you genuinely think I was being serious about that? ?

Nowhere does the law mention sound, it very clearly states "discharges any firearm or firework".

?

But there's no definition of firearm in the Highways Act, nor a reference to the Firearms Act. 

As an airsoft RIF is neither the law doesn't apply. However it does apply to airguns as they are a firearm (albeit, a special subclass)

?

[An airsoft gun is not a firearm] If under 1.3J / 2.5J, and only for the purposes of the Firearms Act, not the Highways Act.

The only certainty going into a legal case is that the lawyers will win.

 

[MadMole]

I'd go with the CPS's prosecution definitions  https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms. This defines a firearm, exempts airsoft RIF's but clearly makes Moscarts very dodgy

 

[Rogerborg]

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms. This defines a firearm, exempts airsoft RIF's

But only for the purposes of the Firearms Act.  I agree that the most common-sensical interpretation of the Highways Act would be to use the Firearms Act definition. However, we've seen both the police and prosecuting authorities get the red mist on regarding airsoft guns, and push on with at least one "hang him, then let the charges be read out!" prosecution that resulted in exculpation only by the grace of God (and the Fiscal's incompetent evidence tampering).

I wouldn't want to be a test case, is my point, and would urge being very circumspect with anything that looks remotely like a firearm, on or near any public place, lest the statute book be thrown to see what sticks.

but clearly makes Moscarts very dodgy

Mmm, TAG launchers in particular seem to be getting up towards the upper ~16J limit of airgun energies based on the claimed velocity and mass.  And then there's HPA brrrrt-cannons that can shoot over 1.3J with just a nudge of the regulator.  Paintballers never imaged they'd fall foul of the law until they did, best let it happen to someone else.

 

[Psilosylum]

Pretty sure you're allowed to use toys (RIF's are toys if they're under a certain power?) within 50ft of a road.... the only time i've heard that law apply is when people are shooting shotgun or rifle on private land??

If the police come round to tell you off for plinking in your backgarden, file a complaint against them for wasting police time lol

 

[Tackle]

Pretty sure you're allowed to use toys (RIF's are toys if they're under a certain power?) within 50ft of a road.... the only time i've heard that law apply is when people are shooting shotgun or rifle on private land??

If the police come round to tell you off for plinking in your backgarden, file a complaint against them for wasting police time lol

Pretty sure your wrong, & even if your not, the last bit definitely fails the "attitude test", which as everyone knows, the plod will always win in the long run, if there isn't a precise law to combat an airsoft related "offence", a loosely fitting one will be made to fit lol. 

Plus when it comes to Airsoft, we need people on our side, especially the police & other figures of authority, otherwise every negative police report is another nail in the coffin for Airsoft in its current form, not something I want to see change. 

 

[Tommikka]

Pretty sure you're allowed to use toys (RIF's are toys if they're under a certain power?) within 50ft of a road.... the only time i've heard that law apply is when people are shooting shotgun or rifle on private land??

If the police come round to tell you off for plinking in your backgarden, file a complaint against them for wasting police time lol

RIFs aren’t toys under a certain power, it’s airsoft guns (RIFs/IFs that are exempted from other firearms legislation under amendments in the Policing and crime act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/3/part/6/crossheading/firearms/enacted

(5)After section 57 insert—


“57AException for airsoft guns


(1)An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.

(2)An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description which—

(a)is designed to discharge only a small plastic missile (whether or not it is also capable of discharging any other kind of missile), and

(b)is not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level.

(3)“Small plastic missile” means a missile that—

(a)is made wholly or partly from plastics,

(b)is spherical, and

(c)does not exceed 8 millimetres in diameter.

(4)The permitted kinetic energy level is—

(a)in the case of a weapon which is capable of discharging two or more missiles successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;

(b)in any other case, 2.5 joules.”

 

[Rogerborg]

RIFs/IFs that are exempted from other firearms legislation

An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of [the Firearms] Act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57A

Any common sense interpretation would mean that they shouldn't be regarded as firearms for the Highways Act.

But if the law operated on common sense, lawyers wouldn't drive Range Rovers.

 

[Tackle]

Let's not forget, what would the man on the Clapham omnibus think about it all, that's almost as much of a precedent as any set in stone law that anyone here can quote, it's when conjecture & interpretation become just as important when it comes to all things "GNU"., especially once the tabloids get their grubby little mitts on it. 

 

[Cannonfodder]

I have a challenge to all those saying rifs don't count as firearms under the highways act. 

Take your favourite rif, wave it around on a motorway bridge and see what happens

 

[Neptune]

I have a challenge to all those saying rifs don't count as firearms under the highways act. 

Take your favourite rif, wave it around on a motorway bridge and see what happens

Well that's a public place and since you wouldn't have a good excuse for waving it around there you would be arrested under section 19 of the Firearms Act. Highways Act would be irrelevant.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Well that's a public place and since you wouldn't have a good excuse for waving it around there you would be arrested under section 19 of the Firearms Act. Highways Act would be irrelevant.

True, but you know what I'm getting at.

Do the same but on private land but still visible from a busy road and let us know how it goes 

 

[Rogerborg]

wave it around on a motorway bridge

If I wear my hi-vis, there's a fair chance that I might be brought tea and biscuits instead of being arrested.

 

[Tackle]

I'm not even sure why we're still entertaining this thread, yes there are laws pertaining to rif use that any of us could easily fall foul of, but every thread that's EVER discussed anything along these lines have all come to the same conclusions :

IF YOU WAVE A RIF AROUND ANYWHERE THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN SEE YOU, YOU WILL GET A VISIT FROM THE POLICE. 

Now irrespective of anyone here's knowledge of the laws, taking the moral high ground because "According to laws XYZ its OK to do this, so it's my right" is bollocks, the plod are obligated to investigate every call they receive regarding potential firearms, even when your in your own back garden or on private land, & there isn't a court in the land that will support you versus the police when in comes to them doing their duties in this matter, whether its them telling you to "don't be a cnut, use some common sense", or the other end of the sliding scale, them shooting you dead. 

Even if the attending officers are very knowledgeable about Airsoft & are polite when discussing it with you, respond with a smart mouth & you'll find yourself nicked for "causing distress" or public order offences, & your kit grabbed for "assessment", & don't expect to get it back anytime soon. 

Back on track, if you want to fiddle with your guns in your back garden, let any overlooking neighbours know that their harmless but realistic toys & explain your hobby, maybe even print something out explaining it in more detail, get them on board & understanding. 

If if you do fire your toys in your garden, set up an appropriate range with a decent backstop to keep any stray bb's within your property boundaries. 

USE SOME COMMON SENSE ? ?

View attachment 97916

 

[Rogerborg]

I'm not even sure why we're still entertaining this thread

I've honestly forgotten what it's about, I'm just enjoying the <ackchyually> handbag fight.

 

[Tackle]

I've honestly forgotten what it's about, I'm just enjoying the <ackchyually> handbag fight.

LOL, I know what you mean, I had to scroll to the top to check what we're actually discussing, but I'll be grumpily honest & admit I'm so feckin tired of spoon feeding noobs answers to the same questions that have been asked a thousand times before, made worse by wannabe trolls that say shite like "if the plod come round, make an official complaint about wasting time" etc. 

There's a core of members here, you & I included, that literally have hundreds of years of combined experience within Airsoft, add to that our own personal life experiences & skill sets in numerous professional fields, & I'll bet that not one of us has fallen foul of the law due to how we use/behave/own our Airsoft rifs. 

Why. 

Because we've been sensible, applied common sense & been aware of the massive responsibilities of "gun" ownership. 

Yet we're still having to spell it out to new members ffs. 

 

[Cannonfodder]

If it wasn't for the potential repercussions to the hobby in general I'm always tempted to let the internet lawyers fuck about and find out

 

[Psilosylum]

Pretty sure your wrong, & even if your not, the last bit definitely fails the "attitude test", which as everyone knows, the plod will always win in the long run, if there isn't a precise law to combat an airsoft related "offence", a loosely fitting one will be made to fit lol. 

Plus when it comes to Airsoft, we need people on our side, especially the police & other figures of authority, otherwise every negative police report is another nail in the coffin for Airsoft in its current form, not something I want to see change. 

Touché.. a lot has changed since i stopped playing ?

Obviously a large dose of common sense is needed.. if your in a garden which isn't over-looked with a sufficient backstop it shouldn't be an issue is kind of what i was getting at.. Though in that case i guess there wouldn't be much chance of a complaint being made in the first place.

I guess i'm still kind of frustrated at the laws which have been introduced to give the public the illusion of safety whilst only actually penalising law abiding hobbyists. Though unfortunatly i guess there are idiots who are the reason these laws have been enacted in the first place ?

 (woops, sorry for reactivating a dead thread too.. haven't used a forum in a while ?)

 

[Rogerborg]

I guess i'm still kind of frustrated at the laws which have been introduced to give the public the illusion of safety whilst only actually penalising law abiding hobbyists.

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

 

[Guest]

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

I’m guessing it’s trust and intent.

You jump through a few hoops for a shotgun certificate, so less likely to have it out of the house “just because”. Even more hoops with other firearms (generally section1 or 5) and therefore extremely unlikely to be “just because”

Airguns and imitation firearms are a lot easier to get hold of, so maybe the thought is they are more likely be in your boot for nefarious reasons?

Or

It’s all just a huge mish-mash to ensure Lord Rich Big Knob can always get away with carrying, and Joe Shmo from down the road will always be prosecuted. Or is that paranoia ?

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Oh, we've had plenty of rants here about that.  Our firearms-and-firearm-looking-things statute book is a patchwork Frankenstein's monster.  The one that really does my head in is S19, which seems absolutely back-to-front in terms of rationality.

Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

Caught with an undersized bright orange toy in public, get the jail vs "It's OK, constable, it's a real firearm, but I left the shellazines at home." ?

I suspect the "unloaded shotgun" exemption is to allow the Landed Gentry's gamekeeper to stroll to the pub with his shotgun slung over his shoulder, so he can enjoy a pint and a pie, without having to divert on his way to store the pew-pew.

It's one law for them and another for the rest of us, I tell you!