Told to leave site (Anzio)...

[Adolf Hamster]

In would but it would have been my fault 

If you'd passed on green gas, then been booted off because the marshall at the spot check put black gas in your gun would you feel it was your fault?

 

[concretesnail]

I don't know what this statement means.  Is that referring to the BBs that are made available at the chrono? .

Yes, i did mean they have had a range of bb weights at the chrono station. Sorry, i should of been more clear.

 

[Rogerborg]

The just punting paying customers off site with no chance to switch to an alternate gun is just shite.

Is it though?  If the only penalty for running hot is that you might sometimes have to switch to something else, then it's not much of deterrent.

 

[Tackle]

Unless someone is caught with a ridiculous variance in power differing from the "start of the day chrono", & assuming the tag or tie fitted by the marshals is still intact, players should be given the option to switch to an aeg platform, & if they haven't brought their own, maybe a rental offered for a small additional fee. 

Would surely be an option that benefits everyone ? 

The just punting paying customers off site with no chance to switch to an alternate gun is just shite.

Posted before I saw your post, spot on?

 

[Rogerborg]

a ridiculous variance

How much is too much?

My real objection is to this use of the word "variance" at all.  The gun is either over a limit, or it's not.  Once you start saying "yeah, it's over the limit, but it's only 10% over" then you've just upped your  actual limit by 10%.  Now, how much can it be over that new limit before you punt it?

 

[Tackle]

Is it though?  If the only penalty for running hot is that you might sometimes have to switch to something else, then it's not much of deterrent.

If platforms such as HPA & some gbbr are subject to variable joule creep, I'd much rather save the day with an aeg backup than potentially drive long distances home while spitting feathers & vowing to destroy the site verbally online etc

How much is too much?

My real objection is to this use of the word "variance" at all.  The gun is either over a limit, or it's not.  Once you start saying "yeah, it's over the limit, but it's only 10% over" then you've just upped your  actual limit by 10%.  Now, how much can it be over that new limit before you punt it?

Bugger knows, & clearly this site understands it less than me lol, but if an incident doesn't scream wholesale cheating, then surely a stern warning, coupled with an alternative option to continue playing is better than their current set up. 

 

[Rogerborg]

If platforms such as HPA & some gbbr are subject to variable joule creep, I'd much rather save the day with an aeg backup

Oh, I'd prefer that too, as a player.  However, as a site, if players can just shrug and say "OK, I'll put it back in the car and get my CYMA" then why would they care what their gas guns are creeping up to?

What I'd really want is some clarity and consistency, regarding what I'd be tested with, and what the consequences would be.

Hmm, I wonder what Anzio would do if a player voluntarily approached marshals to ask to be re-chronoed in-game, and came out over. ?

 

[Tommikka]

Chrono rules should be clear, and the penalty should be fair

Zero tolerance is a problem area, especially in this case where the zero tolerance was for a BB that was not in use by the player, and there is no apparent sneakyness of the player to use the offending BB

Shouldn’t the owner have gone home as they had the offending BBs?

The end goal is that players fire BBs within a set limit.  If the rules are for any of a number of sizes then the site should be testing at all sizes.

In paintball a number of years ago we created a set of rules for the mix of HPA and CO2 use.

The legal energy limit in foot pounds or joules translates to a velocity of a little over 300fps.

As an industry the common limit is 280fps, but at competitive tournaments 300fps is permitted.

Under a Scenario common rule set we defined the rules as:

Standard Chrono Limits
280 FPS for markers running on HPA. Minimum of three shots over the chrono with all three shots registering below the limit.
250 FPS for markers running on CO2. Minimum of three shots over the chrono with all three shots registering below the limit.
250 FPS for games run exclusively indoors.

The lower CO2 limit was to allow for spiking.  Chrono from a steady state at 250 and a spike may occur within 280

If I spot checked a CO2 player at 260 etc then I would allow that for a spike - but I would still require a pause and rechrono - if the 3 shots were not with 250 then it’s back to the safe zone for sorting out.

Players we’re also advised to keep checking throughout the day, and I’d have my eye out to pick on players as the day warmed.

Going to the chrono station has full tolerance - that’s where checking and adjusting should take place.

But if you spot me in game walking towards you with a chrono and you sprint back to the chrono station then I’m not tolerant 

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

If you'd passed on green gas, then been booted off because the marshall at the spot check put black gas in your gun would you feel it was your fault?

So let’s just look at that comment.

if a marshal changes the power of my rif I’m to blame???

I would not expect my hpa settings to be changed by a marshal nor a spring changed in my aeg. The power my rif is capable of is my responsibility. I can set it to any power level on any given bb weight and it’s my fault if it fails.

only excuse is buying an overpowered rif from a retailer.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

So let’s just look at that comment.

if a marshal changes the power of my rif I’m to blame???

yes, that was the point....

you seemed to be arguing that the op was at fault for having a pew that would read hot when tested under different conditions to those it was being used in-game, unless i've misread your intent?

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

More the point being that an hpa system correctly set up for a given weight should not joule creep excessively with heavier bbs and unless set very close to the chrono limits (which is never a good idea given fluctuations in regulators and differing chronos) should not fail at any weight bb.

 

[Kls77]

Like I said previously. There rules there site . Puts downer on it . Only trying to help others who planning on going . Be careful that's all . 

My mate did nothing wrong . Was in the limits on his bb .  Will not be going back and probably not to any other of there sites either . It's done . I learned and so did my mate . Not first time it's happened there and probably not the last .  

U all can debate on the joule creep marlakey and wether who's  fault it is . I just wanted to tell people on what happened . I won't loose sleep over it lol . 

 

[Steveocee]

Was that Kyle? He’d mentioned they were stand offish about his mtw

Certainly was.

What's crazy is the first time I played there, I had a VSR GSPEC and it did 499/500/500 and they let me through fine, tagged it and didn't mention anything. A tear later took my SRS and it went through at 465 and the guy told me I'm only just acceptable.....

I kind of "like" that they're wise enough to use a heavier BB to account for some creep but going heavier than the person is using is stupid.

 

[Rogerborg]

Bear in mind that the legal definition of an airsoft gun is based on what it's "capable" of with "any missile".  So sites could make an argument along those lines, and test with a variety of BB weights, and with the hop dialled to various settings.  You could even test what an HPA rig can do with the regulator dialled to 11 - I wonder how many folk are turning up with Section 5 firearms.

Their site, their rules.  But they need to explain what ze rules actually are. They're demonstrably not clear, or consistent, and actually contradict their own published contract.

 

[Stratton Oakmont]

Like I said previously. There rules there site . Puts downer on it . Only trying to help others who planning on going . Be careful that's all . 

My mate did nothing wrong . Was in the limits on his bb .  Will not be going back and probably not to any other of there sites either . It's done . I learned and so did my mate . Not first time it's happened there and probably not the last .  

U all can debate on the joule creep marlakey and wether who's  fault it is . I just wanted to tell people on what happened . I won't loose sleep over it lol . 

I haven’t been back, I like their bouncing pyro rules even more than their muddled chrono rulings 

 

[Kls77]

I haven’t been back, I like their bouncing pyro rules even more than their muddled chrono rulings 

Pmsl . Yeah that was a while new rule in itself ..... 

 

[Steveocee]

Overly complicated solution to this.

Site employs a chrono zip tie system with varying colours:

0.2 - Blue

0.25 - Red

0.3 - Green

If it has a tag, it's passed.

When random spot checked, gun is re-chrono'd with correct weight, hey presto. Player can use limit they are tested to or lighter.

For those about to argue the player could be using a heavier BB. Shoot a couple of BB's through with players own mag and then a few of the colour weighted tags. If the results are similar then player is honest about weight, if results of site BB are higher then player is lying about weight.

That to be honest would be right up Anzio's street as they like to heavily convolute the already convoluted and it'd give him 10 more mins of safety brief.

 

[Tackle]

Is this kinda heavy handed attitude common towards HPA users ? 

I thought one of the main reasons for using HPA is its adjustability ?, the ability to quickly retune according to site limits or BB weights ? 

Obviously there has always been the contentious attitude by some, me included, that such a system is open to abuse, but surely sites should be encouraging players to monitor any changes during the day & reduce output if it becomes necessary. 

As such, permanent chrono station should be an option ?, if HPA etc isn't a "flash in the pan" that's not going away anytime soon then more should be done to encourage its correct use ? 

 

[Steveocee]

Is this kinda heavy handed attitude common towards HPA users ? 

I thought one of the main reasons for using HPA is its adjustability ?, the ability to quickly retune according to site limits or BB weights ? 

Obviously there has always been the contentious attitude by some, me included, that such a system is open to abuse, but surely sites should be encouraging players to monitor any changes during the day & reduce output if it becomes necessary. 

As such, permanent chrono station should be an option ?, if HPA etc isn't a "flash in the pan" that's not going away anytime soon then more should be done to encourage its correct use ? 

Apparently all HPA users are cheating little gits who chrono low then crank up the PSI's.

I just don't understand it. I always chrono on site chrono with my shooting weight so that I know I'm under and then stick site BB's in to make them happy. 

My indoor pistols I build them so that they hit about 1J with a .25 at 80psi so I can set and forget.

It's aged attitudes doing this.

 

[Druid799]

Was told by him and stated at brief to leave room for joule creep . But mates  hpa was set to no more than 328 ( there rules )on .2 . So mate set up for .25 and was all passed at chrono in morning . Asked at chrono what he was running and he said .25 . Fired and passed within there limits . . Tried to be reasonable and explain that we hadn't done anything wrong ( they even tagged and locked the regulator ) . But owner said can't change rules as have to do it for evyone ? 

1st thanks for having the balls to stand up and say who it was , way to many chuck allegations around but won’t back them up with names . Any whoo what you’ve said here convinces me even MORE what a pile of shit you were dropped in through no fault of your own . Now I could go in to a long winded rant about this ‘business man’s’ attitude towards customer experience yada yada but ya know what ? Not worth it , he’s just a c**t simple as that ! ?