Thoughts on ASG Infinity 22k motor vs Warhead Standard

[concretesnail]

I know you change your mind under distance selling rules but I think you have to returning it in an unused condition, if you have used it, then it would be warranty on faulty if it is faulty. Faulty doesn't cover user error/assembly error unfortunately unless the instructions are wrong.

 

[EDcase]

Sell it in the classifieds.  You won't get the full value back but 2/3 is better than nothin..

 

[Hatchet]

Nope, only if it's faulty. https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds

Yeah, that'll do it. Blue/medium is supposed to be removable by hand. No way it'll hold up to being used on a motor. 

You've missed the section underneath that that specifically covers distance selling.

"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

I know you change your mind under distance selling rules but I think you have to returning it in an unused condition, if you have used it, then it would be warranty on faulty if it is faulty. Faulty doesn't cover user error/assembly error unfortunately unless the instructions are wrong.

Again, don't think this is correct (unless you can cite sources?). If I buy a laptop, it can still be returned once I've fired it up, had a play with it and gone "oh no, doesn't work for me". If I'd broken it during installation this would be a different matter.

Sell it in the classifieds.  You won't get the full value back but 2/3 is better than nothin..

Perhaps so. I shouldn't have to though. I guess it's that old question of how much energy do I want to invest chasing this down. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

My belief was, under CCR you had 14 days from receipt to effectively just change your mind for no reason. Limitations on this include

the intention is to give you the same opportunities for inspection before purchase you'd have in a store.

for example a while back i bought a microphone for my pc, when it showed up it was twice the size i thought it was going to be, pictures can be deceiving. in that case i was ok with it, but had i planned on the item being a given size i could have returned it (unused) based on that. same with clothes/shoes- in a shop you could try on for size but online you have to trust their measurement scheme and it's well known that manufacturer sizes aren't consistent.

the problem in this case is that the speed of the motor is something you could have known before purchase, as they publish those figures for each model- eg the "high speed" doing 25000rpm on 7.4v (~23rps on 18:1) and 36000rpm on 11.1v (~33rps on 18:1). when i ordered i used those numbers and the intended gear ratio/battery of my build to work out that the standard would be more appropriate for my use case.

 

[Lozart]

You've missed the section underneath that that specifically covers distance selling.

"Online, mail and telephone order customers have the right to cancel their order for a limited time even if the goods are not faulty. Sales of this kind are known as ‘distance selling’.

You must offer a refund to customers if they’ve told you within 14 days of receiving their goods that they want to cancel. They have another 14 days to return the goods once they’ve told you.

You must refund the customer within 14 days of receiving the goods back. They do not have to provide a reason."

Again, don't think this is correct (unless you can cite sources?). If I buy a laptop, it can still be returned once I've fired it up, had a play with it and gone "oh no, doesn't work for me". If I'd broken it during installation this would be a different matter.

Perhaps so. I shouldn't have to though. I guess it's that old question of how much energy do I want to invest chasing this down. 

At this point I'd say try asking them. If they say no then it's up to you if you want to take it further. They might just say yes and it'll be a darn sight quicker than arguing the toss with us all here.

 

[Hatchet]

the intention is to give you the same opportunities for inspection before purchase you'd have in a store.

for example a while back i bought a microphone for my pc, when it showed up it was twice the size i thought it was going to be, pictures can be deceiving. in that case i was ok with it, but had i planned on the item being a given size i could have returned it (unused) based on that. same with clothes/shoes- in a shop you could try on for size but online you have to trust their measurement scheme and it's well known that manufacturer sizes aren't consistent.

the problem in this case is that the speed of the motor is something you could have known before purchase, as they publish those figures for each model- eg the "high speed" doing 25000rpm on 7.4v (~23rps on 18:1) and 36000rpm on 11.1v (~33rps on 18:1). when i ordered i used those numbers and the intended gear ratio/battery of my build to work out that the standard would be more appropriate for my use case.

Yup, agreed. That's the intention (although, arguably not the rule), but it's well known that people will get stuff, wear it, and then return.

Your process was a step further than mine. I did look at the RPM, but didn't then work out based on ratios. Instead I worked it out based on the claimed RPM of the motor I was already using and roughly how fast that fired in my setup at the moment. How'd you arrive at that conclusion? I need to work out what 24:1 might give me... - the extra complication I have here is not only do I not want to fire that fast, but I'm not certain the box mag will keep up. And I can't make the box mag feed faster because it draws from the gun, so if I up the box mag motor to 11.1... hilarity ensues.

At this point I'd say try asking them. If they say no then it's up to you if you want to take it further. They might just say yes and it'll be a darn sight quicker than arguing the toss with us all here.

Quoted for truth TBH.

At some point this thread might even return to how the motor performs instead of customer service...

 

[Badgerlicious]

You can get the theoretical max rps if you divide the motor's rpm by 60, then again by the gear ratio. Real world will be less, e.g. I have seen examples of someone with the warhead high speed on 11.1v with 13:1 gears on an m120 spring. Theoretical max is 46 rps, but they were getting 38. Currently basing my expected performance on that since I'm running an m115.

 

[Badgerlicious]

Since this is the only kind of active warhead thread... I've put some zci 13:1 gears in, and pulling an m115 spring with the warhead high speed, 1450 30c 7.4v battery, perun ab++, and it's getting about 18rps. Trigger response feels great, but I was expecting closer to 25rps compared to some posts I've seen. I guess it's just because I'm running a 7.4v? Maybe my expectations are unrealistic. Seems a touch low for such an expensive motor. 

Edit: Using the "hs5 formula" and substituting the warhead for a 22tpa motor, the rps comes out at 17, so I suppose 18 is about right. Also I loosened the motor a little and it's somehow even smoother ?

 

[Hatchet]

That does seem a bit slow based on the method you outlined. I tried mine today with 18:1 and 24:1 and have opted for the 24:1 which in theory is just over 17rps. It *feels* about right (not very scientific, but I don't have RPS function on my chrono). The speed on 18:1's was good but too fast for sustained support, although worked well for bursts.

Hoping to get it out over the weekend and see how it goes. I guess I could always ramp it up if I needed to with an 11.1 which I think puts me about 25rps.

 

[Badgerlicious]

It's hard to google, not many running these motors. But it seems they have a warhead owners facebook group so I might inquire on there, to see what others are getting. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

if it helps i was getting ~18rps on 12:1 with a warhead standard on 7.4v.

heavily short stroked admittedly.

 

[infyrana]

Since this is the only kind of active warhead thread... I've put some zci 13:1 gears in, and pulling an m115 spring with the warhead high speed, 1450 30c 7.4v battery, perun ab++, and it's getting about 18rps. Trigger response feels great, but I was expecting closer to 25rps compared to some posts I've seen. I guess it's just because I'm running a 7.4v? Maybe my expectations are unrealistic. Seems a touch low for such an expensive motor.

Aye, please carry on ! The more information we have out in the open the better our decisions can become.

I am still pre-Warhead motor ownership atm, I'm just waiting on the prices for the new Ronin version before I dive in - hopefully it won't be too long a wait!  I took my intended target for the Warhead motor - a new LCT AK - out for a spin just over a week ago after having given the gearbox a clean up (might have also changed the barrel+hop, spring, cylinder and popped in a spare silent piston head setup I had).  I kept the standard not-so-highly-rated LCT motor and ran with a Titan 3000mAh 7.4v, surprisingly it went very smooth and kept running for the entire day, ie no gearbox/motor issues.  But the trigger response, oh man, was just poor, almost felt like comparing a pistol AEG to a GBB.  Once I get the Warhead motor sorted I'll try and take a note of the RPS before and after if I can.  Ideally I'd like to pop it in before I install a Titan Gate to see how much of a difference it makes by itself to the trigger performance.  But for now ...

... back to more Warhead comments cheers!

 

[Badgerlicious]

So it's was 100% my battery. *shakes fist* NUUUUPRROOOOOOLLL!

Switching to my usual AUG battery, a decent RC 7.4v, 1600, 35c, I'm at 24 rps immediately. Damn, now I gotta choose between some new leaves and dye, or new batteries :c

 

[EDcase]

Nuprol for the fail

What a surprise ?

 

[Badgerlicious]

In other news my fancy SHS piston head fell off ? I'm suddenly glad for the electronics because they seemed to stop the gearbox doing any permanent damage. Put some loctite on that now, so I hope I don't need a new piston anytime soon ?

Now to either hunt for some decent 7.4s or just go right to the 11.1v. 

 

[Hatchet]

First outing today. I only ran it for half a day, rate of fire was exactly where I wanted it to be, used maybe 600mah of a 7.4. Didn't do a huge amount of sustained fire, mostly bursts, but no issues to report.

Now, just need to sort the accuracy, but that's probably not something I can blame on the motor.

 

[Badgerlicious]

Now I gotta sort out issues with the delay chip timing with the good battery ?, fortunately the fps drop isn't apparent on the crappy battery, and it all feeds ok. Video is (I think) with pre-cock on the crappy battery. *only* 18rps on the burst. 


View attachment 81863