THE TM MWS thread

[Whereismyhammer]

Now that I’ve found out the angry gun barrels are shit I have ordered one of the g&p mws barrels. What do you folks think of those or should I cancel the order and get a z parts one. 
 

also had a strange problem with a stock mk18 today. Put about 10 mags through it over a game day today. Used a maximum of 5 shots in one go and the temp was about 16 degrees so I don’t think I had cool down problems. Most mags were fine but on two occasions they behaved as if they were running out of gas halfway through the mag. Any idea what could cause this. Any ideas? And thanks for your input.   

 

[Davegolf]

Is the piston seal lubed or dryed out?

 

[RMDavis]

Now that I’ve found out the angry gun barrels are shit I have ordered one of the g&p mws barrels. What do you folks think of those or should I cancel the order and get a z parts one. 
 

also had a strange problem with a stock mk18 today. Put about 10 mags through it over a game day today. Used a maximum of 5 shots in one go and the temp was about 16 degrees so I don’t think I had cool down problems. Most mags were fine but on two occasions they behaved as if they were running out of gas halfway through the mag. Any idea what could cause this. Any ideas? And thanks for your input.   

My G&P MRE rail came complete with its own outer barrel and I haven't had any issues whatsoever with fitment, and no hop problems when shooting etc.

Just my own personal experiences of course, but providing your happy with the barrel you've picked I think your good to go bud. ? 

On a complete contrast to Angry Gun everything made from G&P fitted to my MRE build has been perfect. 

Rail, outer barrel, charging handle, ambi mag release, qd rear sling plate, ambi fire selector. 

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any external parts for the MWS from them.

 

[Whereismyhammer]

Is the piston seal lubed or dryed out?

A friend of mine who is more knowledgeable than me suggested the same thing. I took it apart and gave it a clean it was potentially over lubed as you say. Cheers for the advice and I will see how it runs next game. 

My G&P MRE rail came complete with its own outer barrel and I haven't had any issues whatsoever with fitment, and no hop problems when shooting etc.

Just my own personal experiences of course, but providing your happy with the barrel you've picked I think your good to go bud. ? 

On a complete contrast to Angry Gun everything made from G&P fitted to my MRE build has been perfect. 

Rail, outer barrel, charging handle, ambi mag release, qd rear sling plate, ambi fire selector. 

I wouldn't hesitate to buy any external parts for the MWS from them.

That’s very reassuring. Good to know and thanks for replying 

 

[GothicGhost]

480mm

Thank you ?

 

[SSPKali]

Interesting, I just chrono’d a customer CQBR, 250mm 6.03, Modify tan, Super Nub, HSB, stock valve, otherwise stock, freshly serviced ?

With Abbey Vertex @ similar temperature; 360 FPS

I found that the little valve spring can make a big difference.

I tried the set up with the well used TM spring and a newer, stiffer and longer (Ooh matron!) RATech one.

The RA tech spring gave another 10-15fps as it kept the valve open longer. I am guessing that might explain the difference along with minor variations in hop applied and chrono tollerences.

 

[Davegolf]

Yes power tuning is all in the floating valve for the most part, the rest is efficiency/air tightness

 

[Hypokondrikern]

Ag charging handle, roll pins just fall out

Not to puncture anything but I have to warn folks that this also happened to my PTS raptor as I opened it from the box... Not the end of the world, however, I find it disappointing having to fix a new part which costed 50 euros....

 

[demandt]

Second MWS has arrived! Man... I never get tired of unboxing these things. And the brilliant finish they come with from the factory. I rattle canned my first MWS, so think this one will stay pristine. I have a civilian style build in mind for this one with a 13.5 M-LOK rail.

View attachment 72160

 

[AlphaBear]

Guys, I did some FPS testing way back in January using a G&P BCG and a Marui BCG. 

For those who want to know what power you get from using Abbey Ultra Predator gas (the one that comes in a red can) see the attached pic. I did some testing using 0.3 Geoffs and 0.2 Excels at a temperature of 20c (I do believe). The left side shows a G&P bolt carrier group. On the right is the standard Marui bolt. The max figure for the G&P bolt was 387fps!! With the Marui bolt it was 329fps on 0.2s. Interesting results eh? The mag was filled up each time fresh of course which explains the initial high power.

The main reason for the G&P bolt having a higher output is the floating valve in the nozzle. Obviously it's set to allow more gas to get pumped into the valve. Yes I can remedy this with a G&P NPAS which I do have but just haven't got round to installing it.... I will do at some point and then report back... (but don't hold me to that lol)

View attachment 72161

 

[SSPKali]

Guys, I did some FPS testing way back in January using a G&P BCG and a Marui BCG. 

For those who want to know what power you get from using Abbey Ultra Predator gas (the one that comes in a red can) see the attached pic. I did some testing using 0.3 Geoffs and 0.2 Excels at a temperature of 20c (I do believe). The left side shows a G&P bolt carrier group. On the right is the standard Marui bolt. The max figure for the G&P bolt was 387fps!! With the Marui bolt it was 329fps on 0.2s. Interesting results eh? The mag was filled up each time fresh of course which explains the initial high power.

The main reason for the G&P bolt having a higher output is the floating valve in the nozzle. Obviously it's set to allow more gas to get pumped into the valve. Yes I can remedy this with a G&P NPAS which I do have but just haven't got round to installing it.... I will do at some point and then report back... (but don't hold me to that lol)

View attachment 72161

Solid work ?? I notice that there isn't a linear relationship between the 0.30g and 0.20g results - Take for example the TM bolt set up with an average of 285fps on a 0.30g, the same energy 0.20g BB should be going about 350fps....but the result is only about 320fps. I guess this is to do with the acceleration of heavier BBs, time to clear the barrel and effect on how fast the rocket valve closes. In all AEGs I have tested shooting at 285fps with 0.30g will always fire a 0.20g at 350fps just by changing the ammo weight.

So well below the limit if tested at a site on 0.20g BB, but as soon as you put in 0.30gs to play and it might be (slightly) over the limit ? 

UPDATE:
I have just tested my stock bolt/nozzle MWS with both 0.20g and 0.30g BBs (same brand, ASG gas, 11degC in the shed) and found that over 10 shots:

0.20g BB = 312 fps / 0.9 Joules

0.30g BB = 270 fps / 1.02 Joules

0.36g BB = 244 fps / 1.0 Joules ***UPDATED*** Looks like the short barrel and valve design keeps the power within Japanese limits even with very heavy ammo (IIRC TMs' are designed around 0.25g) ***UPDATED***

If I "adjust" the 0.30g BBs to equate them to 0.20g giving the same power predicted average is 331 fps, about 20fps difference

I have a Dynamic Precision valve coming with my FireSupport order so will give that a try with the exact same set up and see what difference the alloy (heavier) valve will make. I am guessing a boost to the power / fps.

 

[Captain Darling]

What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 

 

[AlphaBear]

Solid work ?? I notice that there isn't a linear relationship between the 0.30g and 0.20g results - Take for example the TM bolt set up with an average of 285fps on a 0.30g, the same energy 0.20g BB should be going about 350fps....but the result is only about 320fps. I guess this is to do with the acceleration of heavier BBs, time to clear the barrel and effect on how fast the rocket valve closes. In all AEGs I have tested shooting at 285fps with 0.30g will always fire a 0.20g at 350fps just by changing the ammo weight.

So well below the limit if tested at a site on 0.20g BB, but as soon as you put in 0.30gs to play and it might be (slightly) over the limit ? 

Exactly. You’d think a 285 FPS 0.3 bb would them churn out the equivalent  0.20 bb at 350fps but my tests clearly showed that was not happening. With an AEG definitely the relationship would be almost linear as you said in your post. GBBRs are not an exact science. They are just fun to use. 
 

Here is a thought. It could well be the quality of the 0.2bbs they were Excels and pretty old too. Dare I say it about 6-7 yrs old maybe more. I do have some newer 0.2s so I’ll give them a go at the weekend and see what transpires. 

 

[Davegolf]

What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 

Hi! Yes as of this time, I have not come across a holistically good bucking that can outperform AND outlast the original TM bucking.

Exactly. You’d think a 285 FPS 0.3 bb would them churn out the equivalent  0.20 bb at 350fps but my tests clearly showed that was not happening. With an AEG definitely the relationship would be almost linear as you said in your post. GBBRs are not an exact science. They are just fun to use. 
 

Here is a thought. It could well be the quality of the 0.2bbs they were Excels and pretty old too. Dare I say it about 6-7 yrs old maybe more. I do have some newer 0.2s so I’ll give them a go at the weekend and see what transpires. 

You’re right on there, in a GBB your dealing with expanding volumes, temperature and pressure changes.

In an AEG, as long as that motor pulls your stored energy (spring) back you’re getting a repeatable output.

 

[AlphaBear]

What is the current hop rubber of choice for the MWS these days?  I really rate the blue Modify X, it’s very accurate, but they’re costing me £12 a go and they don’t last 5 minutes.  I put a brand new one in, and just 1000 bb’s later it is chewed up to buggery, and all over the place. Talk about the light that shines twice as brightly burns half as long. 

I think it’s just too soft, and is designed to be used in VSR type guns, which would never fire 1000 bb’s in 2 weeks.

I’m running a 303x 6.02mm inner barrel, with a wide, open window and Dave’s nub. 

I’d stick to the Marui rubber truth be told. I used the tan modify one and it lasted a few hundred rounds. It may well have been the rubber was a dodgy one, who knows. The Marui is spot on. Always keep a few in the tool box from now. 

 

[Captain Darling]

I’d stick to the Marui rubber truth be told. I used the tan modify one and it lasted a few hundred rounds. It may well have been the rubber was a dodgy one, who knows. The Marui is spot on. Always keep a few in the tool box from now. 

Good to know, thanks. Is it just a generic TM hop rubber then? In the olden days, it was common practice to replace them with a prommy purple wasn’t it?

 

[Davegolf]

Prommy purple was for AEGs.

The TM MWS original bucking

https://eagle6.co.uk/shop/catalog/product/view/id/2612/s/tokyo-marui-m4a1-mws-hop-unit-hop-rubber-for-m4-gbbr-series/

 

[AlphaBear]

Good to know, thanks. Is it just a generic TM hop rubber then? In the olden days, it was common practice to replace them with a prommy purple wasn’t it?

Only a GBB rubber will fit. 

 

[Captain Darling]

Ah yes, of course. Thanks chaps

I think this is the one I was thinking about, I’ve got them on a few of my TM pistols:

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/laylaxnineball-hop-rubber-for-tokyo-marui-vsr-l96-pistols-mws-block1-purple

 

[AlphaBear]

Ah yes, of course. Thanks chaps

I think this is the one I was thinking about, I’ve got them on a few of my TM pistols:

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/laylaxnineball-hop-rubber-for-tokyo-marui-vsr-l96-pistols-mws-block1-purple

That’s fine. That will work. In fact I have one in my parts box. 

.

That GBB purple prommy is supposed to work very well with the prommy hop arm too.  I have one of those too in the parts box but never got round to trying it. 
 

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/first-factory-strike-hop-arm-for-marui-m4a1-mws

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