The ghillie discussion

[Pseudotectonic]

@Tommikka While it is interesting technology, I think there might be a certain upper limit in terms of technology in airsoft, when you start having turrets and robots and AI and what not, the game starts to leave the premise of small arms warfare, does your turret have a torso sized target for shooting at, and can it call hits and walk itself back to respawn?

And if it is just a matter of who has the most number of advanced AI / robots to spawn onto the field, is it still airsoft, or is it just Command and Conquer simulator? Where would be the line?

That is not to say automated turrets or drones or AI etc cannot be airsoft, but I think there should be some sort of rule or principles for the airsoft arms race, and I think the principle of risk vs reward and gameplay fairness should apply, because surely you cannot pay-to-swarm the field with automated suicide flying pistol turrets, if that is what it comes down to, unless both teams are exclusively using the same stuff (meanwhile the rentals with their JGs in hand are confused they'd gone to a wrong game under the buzzing airspace)

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And accordingly, is there a dazzle camo pattern for human clothing and for human opponents?

 

[Tackle]

@Tommikka While it is interesting technology, I think there might be a certain upper limit in terms of technology in airsoft, when you start having turrets and robots and AI and what not, the game starts to leave the premise of small arms warfare, does your turret have a torso sized target for shooting at, and can it call hits and walk itself back to respawn?

And if it is just a matter of who has the most number of advanced AI / robots to spawn onto the field, is it still airsoft, or is it just Command and Conquer simulator? Where would be the line?

That is not to say automated turrets or drones or AI etc cannot be airsoft, but I think there should be some sort of rule or principles for the airsoft arms race, and I think the principle of risk vs reward and gameplay fairness should apply, because surely you cannot pay-to-swarm the field with automated suicide flying pistol turrets, if that is what it comes down to, unless both teams are exclusively using the same stuff (meanwhile the rentals with their JGs in hand are confused they'd gone to a wrong game under the buzzing airspace)

--

And accordingly, is there a dazzle camo pattern for human clothing and for human opponents?

Surely to a lesser degree, every m4 boxmag dsg wanker is doing the same, trying to get an unfair (?) advantage by essentially trying to put down 2 or 3 times the bbs downrange against their opponents, all elements of realism are lost, as similar rof chainguns aren't commonplace on the infantry battlefield, yet walk on days are full of dsg wankers?

Edit: what if said dsg jizzbucket turned up at a site & at the chrono the rof was also checked, & the Marshall says "nah sorry mate, your doing more than 18rps, it's a wankergun, you can only use it with lo-caps, & if you've got none,we'll rent you some we've got here, but they are painted yellow" ?

Definitely food for thought?

 

[Cannonfodder]

don't think there is/was human sized dazzle camouflage, would look sick tho

View attachment 127213

As for AI sentry guns

There was also a trial of facial recognition software done years ago by HOSDB. From what I heard it went almost just as badly with a high number of misses and false positives 

As for players nonchalantly walking into other teams lines, I wouldn't call a lack of situational awareness cheating

 

[Tommikka]

That's another hotly debated topic as some people consider it cheating. Personally, if I see someone walking nonchalantly and their hand isn't in the air, they're getting a shot to the plate carrier. One of my friends is really good at doing this, walking nonchalantly with his rifle in hand past the enemy team and then shooting them in the back, and it's something we do at Vietnam filmsims as well, but with a hidden pistol tucked into the trousers and no rifle in hand.

"No VC, civilian, civilian!" *blam blam blam*

I’m with you on ‘dead man walking’

As long as you aren’t actually cheating (hand up to walk through as a dead player then shooting), and in line with event rules then it’s valid

(I also encourage those willing to risk it in my game rules)

If in doubt challenge / shoot.

If it’s a problem then adopt clear systems such as dead rags

(but this is another thread diversion with an often argued topic)

@Tommikka While it is interesting technology, I think there might be a certain upper limit in terms of technology in airsoft, when you start having turrets and robots and AI and what not, the game starts to leave the premise of small arms warfare,

does your turret have a torso sized target for shooting at, and can it call hits and walk itself back to respawn?

It doesn’t, and is now deceased, following the great lightning strike fire of Ironsight 

@Tommikka

And if it is just a matter of who has the most number of advanced AI / robots to spawn onto the field, is it still airsoft, or is it just Command and Conquer simulator? Where would be the line?

That is not to say automated turrets or drones or AI etc cannot be airsoft, but I think there should be some sort of rule or principles for the airsoft arms race, and I think the principle of risk vs reward and gameplay fairness should apply, because surely you cannot pay-to-swarm the field with automated suicide flying pistol turrets, if that is what it comes down to, unless both teams are exclusively using the same stuff (meanwhile the rentals with their JGs in hand are confused they'd gone to a wrong game under the buzzing airspace)

--

Our turret was an event prop/objective, not for players to turn up and use but for players to try and pass or defeat

It did have a variety of disablement systems - for safety purposes as a kill switch system, and player activated controls to ‘kill’ it

As seen on TV, and an upcoming card game

Solaco RIP

The ‘intelligence’ of AI are highly exaggerated

It has its uses, but many more limitations 

 

[Tackle]

The ‘intelligence’ of AI are highly exaggerated

It has its uses, but many more limitations 

Tell that to the conspiracy nutters ?

View attachment 127227

 

[Pseudotectonic]

Re walking nonchalantly, I would say depends on how nonchalantly you are walking you are effectively "pretending to be not in-game" therefore cheating. That is similar to sparring in any sort of fights, you drop your stance, make your mate think you are not playing, and then making a cheap shot, surely this "false signalling" is a form of cheating. Marshal discretion should apply here, if you see a wandering seemingly dead guy walking towards the wrong spawn, you might want to at least turn him around?

Re @Tommikka ok I guess if it is part of the "map" so it is effectively environmental damage it would be fair I suppose.

Also poor lad falling into the water, there are rat's trap with the same design designed for killing rats, surely it doesn't add anything to the tactical gameplay more than a level and normal bridge, and surely it should have been removed during risk assessment?

Re Taylor Swift lol, you know when prototype cars goes to road testing and they have these blank and white camo patterns to hide their shape... this is it, this is what we need!

Re AI I fear it is only a matter of time we have effective airsoft bots, I mean they are developing exponentially fast, I suspect we are less than a decade away from effective biped robots in military with an AI comparable to Forrest Gump, and then civilian markets less than a decade from that

 

[Cannonfodder]

Re walking nonchalantly, I would say depends on how nonchalantly you are walking you are effectively "pretending to be not in-game" therefore cheating.

I can see where you're coming from but it's also the prerogative of anyone who isn't in-game to make it  clear, whether that's by a hand in the air, dead rags or shouts of "dead man walking". Not doing these tells me the player is a legitimate target

 

[Colin Allen]

I can see where you're coming from but it's also the prerogative of anyone who isn't in-game to make it  clear, whether that's by a hand in the air, dead rags or shouts of "dead man walking". Not doing these tells me the player is a legitimate target

Agreed!  If you aren't making it clear you are out of the game, you get shot.

 

[Tommikka]

Also poor lad falling into the water, there are rat's trap with the same design designed for killing rats, surely it doesn't add anything to the tactical gameplay more than a level and normal bridge, and surely it should have been removed during risk assessment?

I’d agree with you there, we were hired for someone else’s event and that fallen tree shouldn’t have been used as a bridge - ideally it should be cut away at the water if left in situ 

Re walking nonchalantly, I would say depends on how nonchalantly you are walking you are effectively "pretending to be not in-game" therefore cheating. That is similar to sparring in any sort of fights, you drop your stance, make your mate think you are not playing, and then making a cheap shot, surely this "false signalling" is a form of cheating. Marshal discretion should apply here, if you see a wandering seemingly dead guy walking towards the wrong spawn, you might want to at least turn him around?

I would prefer marshals to err on their discretion side, drawing minimal attention, giving light direction to a potential lost respawnee without giving away a sneaky player

It would be similar to a hi vis dressed marshal walking up to a player crawling through the long grass

There are rules about how to walk when eliminated, the general minimum is to raise your arm, which we all drop on a long walk but we know that we should raise/announce our status if we encounter players, call out when approaching corners or doorways inside etc 

 

[Tommikka]

I sacrificed a great photo sequence when I spotted a dead man walking in a tournament

There was only one exit out of the field, behind him.  Tournament rules alone specify taking the shortest route to the side then out so he was clearly in breach if he had been eliminated 

His gun failed, so he kept ducked down trying to fix it and the opposing team forgot about him.

He stood up, stepped to the edge* ( still in the boundary ) walked towards the oppositions rear and then across to the central scoring bunker for the buzzer
 

* note that this site was very old in the tournament world with the netting & posts at exactly regulation size, so there was no out of bounds on the edge -  he could have hugged the net line remaining in game being more deceptive, but clearly and openly walked on

One of the referees did challenge him for going the wrong way, and he quietly said that he’s not out.

I desperately wanted the photos but I would have drawn attention so waited until he sped across for the buzzer

There were complaints, but it was a valid winning move - to official rules

 

[Rogerborg]

View attachment 127192

Surely that should be V.A.T.S. included?

 

[Badgerlicious]

Well, Worthing went through with the new limitations to ghillies. Nothing below a viper hood (shoulders) with 1.14j full auto. DMR and bolt actions only for anything longer or a full ghillie. However they have upped their DMR limits to 1.88j so we're in line with most other sites now, which is nice. 

At least I now have an excuse to finish my viper hood and buy some better combats. 

 

[Colin Allen]

Well, Worthing went through with the new limitations to ghillies. Nothing below a viper hood (shoulders) with 1.14j full auto. DMR and bolt actions only for anything longer or a full ghillie. However they have upped their DMR limits to 1.88j so we're in line with most other sites now, which is nice. 

At least I now have an excuse to finish my viper hood and buy some better combats. 

That is a step in the right direction.

 

[Impulse]

Well, Worthing went through with the new limitations to ghillies. Nothing below a viper hood (shoulders) with 1.14j full auto. DMR and bolt actions only for anything longer or a full ghillie. However they have upped their DMR limits to 1.88j so we're in line with most other sites now, which is nice. 

At least I now have an excuse to finish my viper hood and buy some better combats. 

I was very happy to see it. I was already going to move towards primarily using guns with MEDs even with the old DMR limit of 1.64J, so I'll be happy to keep my m14 and MWS tuned up to 1.88J instead.

 

[mirinjawbro]

counter strike camp o metre mod.

make them carry around some sort of beeping device. once 5 mins or so passes it starts beeping faster and or louder unless they move