The manufacturing offence does not state you need to own the 'gun' when converting it from an IF to a RIF. Though I expect that's some kind of oversight.No, the under 18 thing is a no-no, so keep it to yourself. This boring thread is about converting IFs to RIFs and that's where the law is grey because of what a valid defence is. Owning under 18? That's very clear-cut - you can't do it. To all intents and purposes your parents should be the actual owners of the gun, but then they'd have to provide a defence.
Again, keep it to yourself
Spray painting a two tone airsoft gun
- Thread starter ElAshtonio
- Start date
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
No, the under 18 thing is a no-no, so keep it to yourself. This boring thread is about converting IFs to RIFs and that's where the law is grey because of what a valid defence is. Owning under 18? That's very clear-cut - you can't do it. To all intents and purposes your parents should be the actual owners of the gun, but then they'd have to provide a defence.
Again, keep it to yourself
OWNERSHIP IS NOT LEGISLATED AGAINST AT ALL. THERE IS NO AGE RESTRICTION ON THE OWNERSHIP OF AN AIRSOFT GUN.
The VCRA ONLY legislates against SALE, MANUFACTURE and IMPORT. Ownership is not mentioned at any point, therefore it is not illegal for an under 18 to own an airsoft gun be it RIF or otherwise.
Please read this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36 & then this: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/40
Sale of an IF/RIF and purchase of an IF/RIF are illegal when it comes to under 18's, OWNERSHIP is not mentioned and is therefore LEGAL.
- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,113
- 1,695
Yes, but he bought it - I know this because I've been following the forums. I shouldn't have said 'owning' and I'm not sure why I did, soz people and sorry jcheese's capslock key; you get too much abuse.
It's almost like I said this on page two of this thread:
It's almost like I said this on page two of this thread:
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jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
This is one of those subjects where if you're not 100% clear all of the time people get confused and make all kinds of incorrect assumptions/assertions.
Whenever talking to someone new/ignorant of the VCRA I always make myself as clear as I possibly can in order to avoid that. It's an initially complicated subject that becomes really clear when you realise what people can/can't do.
Whenever talking to someone new/ignorant of the VCRA I always make myself as clear as I possibly can in order to avoid that. It's an initially complicated subject that becomes really clear when you realise what people can/can't do.
- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,113
- 1,695
No, you're completely correct. That's why I go back and edit posts from time-to-time when I realise I've cocked something up because I vehemently in the camp that says you should search for your problem first before asking it in its own thread. What good is that if all the old posts are laced with subtle mistakes? None at all.
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Mos
Members
- Aug 23, 2015
- 566
- 50
I'm unsure.
If the website has a design flaw where someone under 18 can buy a gun, and then the u18 now owns the gun via there flaw.
and bearing in mind the VCRA (I think please correct me) protects sellers. Whos at fault now?
When you place your bank details, is your age not on the card?
Now come someone tell me I'm silly/deluded/wrong.
Though I don't mind being wrong.
(Edit: corrected the word "flaw")
If the website has a design flaw where someone under 18 can buy a gun, and then the u18 now owns the gun via there flaw.
and bearing in mind the VCRA (I think please correct me) protects sellers. Whos at fault now?
When you place your bank details, is your age not on the card?
Now come someone tell me I'm silly/deluded/wrong.
Though I don't mind being wrong.
(Edit: corrected the word "flaw")
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jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
It is an offence for an under 18 to buy a gun, doesn't matter if the website you buy it from has a flaw that allows you to do it.
- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,113
- 1,695
This thread just keeps getting more boring eh.
The bank holds it but they don't give that information out. Not at least with Visa or MasterCard. The cards themselves don't hold any personal data at all - they just serve as an identity in ways. Actual sensitive information is held on servers and simply checked against by the information you provide when you check out. You couldn't ever purely decipher the information on a credit/debit card to give you someone's address.
Again though, it's worth noting the liability is on the seller, not the buyer. I have no idea who'd be at fault if something like that ever went to court. They'd probably have to prove that they made a reasonable, good faith effort to obtain your age. An 'enter your age' box is almost certainly enough for this.
The bank holds it but they don't give that information out. Not at least with Visa or MasterCard. The cards themselves don't hold any personal data at all - they just serve as an identity in ways. Actual sensitive information is held on servers and simply checked against by the information you provide when you check out. You couldn't ever purely decipher the information on a credit/debit card to give you someone's address.
Again though, it's worth noting the liability is on the seller, not the buyer. I have no idea who'd be at fault if something like that ever went to court. They'd probably have to prove that they made a reasonable, good faith effort to obtain your age. An 'enter your age' box is almost certainly enough for this.
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U
UkMan
Guest
So to clarify , in UK Law , an under 18 can be gifted an IF , or even a RIF (provided the over 18 gifting this item carrys some form of defence , UKARA or Regular play at an airsoft skirmishing site, and means to prove it), an IF can be modified into a RIF (painted) by an under 18 and provided you use it for airsofting and do not fuck around with it , you should be ok , now is all that correct or did I fuck up?
C
Callsign_Tempest
Guest
Hi, so I’m 15, 16 in June and my kit is impersonating the West Midlands CTSFO’s, I want to have RIF’s as I currently have red two tones, what can I do as I’m not allowed to obtain a ukara yet, (BTW my dad purchases my IF’s), I’ve been told I can be gifted them, but can I myself paint over the current two tone as it is also wearing off?
Callsign_Tempest
Members
- Feb 11, 2020
- 5
- 0
Hi, so I’m 15, 16 in June and my kit is impersonating the West Midlands CTSFO’s, I want to have RIF’s as I currently have red two tones, what can I do as I’m not allowed to obtain a ukara yet, (BTW my dad purchases my IF’s), I’ve been told I can be gifted them, but can I myself paint over the current two tone as it is also wearing off?
If your father had a Defence then he could gift you RIFs
You can paint your two tone that is wearing off - but should paint in the bright colours as specified in the VCRA to retain their IF status.
If you paint them black then you are modifying an IF into a RIF, and don’t have a Defence to back yourself up.
Callsign_Tempest
Members
- Feb 11, 2020
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- 0
So a defence is basically just a reason on why I did it or evidence that I could do it?
The VCRA governs Realistic Imitation Firearms. A defence in this context is the valid reason for purchasing, importing, manufacturing (or modifying) a RIF
Defences in the core legislation are for museums, theatre, film and TV, reenactment etc
Airsoft skirmishing was added by ‘statutory instrument’, the UKARA scheme was brought in to establish and document a players status as a skirmisher. But you are underage and cannot obtain that defence yourself.
Arguably you could claim that your intent is only to paint your IFs into RIFs for the purpose of airsoft skirmishing at established insured sites, and you may be technically be within the law. But you also could fail to do so in which case you would be committing an offence under the VCRA.
(Note that the original drafts of the bill had repainting an IF into a RIF as an explicit offence just by doing so. It isn’t as black and white now)
Callsign_Tempest
Members
- Feb 11, 2020
- 5
- 0
So if I wanted to take the risk I can say that my defence is only painting the IF to an RIF is for use on a skirmish field and to go with my kit, as I’m sixteen this year which means I’m legally obliged to speak for myself I may have more of a chance of getting away with that defence, but who would ask about my RIF, site manager?
‘Defence’ is not you defending from prosecution, eg in court.
If a player buys a RIF then that player does so under the skirmisher defence.
But it is the retailer who would be liable under legislation if the player does not have the defence
That means a retailer might need to go to court one day and defend themselves from prosecution, establishing that their ‘Legal defence’ is that they reasonably ensured that the buyer had a VCRA ‘defence’ implying that they intended to use the RIF for skirmishing.
In modifying then you are the individual who could be liable for prosecution and could need to prove your legal defence of your skirmisher defence
The greater risk is to come to the attention of the police
One way to start defending your position is to not tell people that you are painting it
If a player buys a RIF then that player does so under the skirmisher defence.
But it is the retailer who would be liable under legislation if the player does not have the defence
That means a retailer might need to go to court one day and defend themselves from prosecution, establishing that their ‘Legal defence’ is that they reasonably ensured that the buyer had a VCRA ‘defence’ implying that they intended to use the RIF for skirmishing.
In modifying then you are the individual who could be liable for prosecution and could need to prove your legal defence of your skirmisher defence
The site manager won’t care.
The greater risk is to come to the attention of the police
One way to start defending your position is to not tell people that you are painting it
Callsign_Tempest
Members
- Feb 11, 2020
- 5
- 0
Whom would question my RIF if I were to have my IF changed, site manager? I have a mate who has a RIF that he was gifted, could I say mine was gifted? But then I wouldn’t do that, even so I doubt I’d be questioned
I’m not going to say that it’s OK for you to end up in possession of a RIF
If someone gifts you a RIF then that’s between them and you
If it is legal under the VCRA for you to paint an IF into a RIF then it’s fine for you to do so
If it’s a crime but you don’t get caught then you have got away with it.
An entirely legal way would be for your father to go playing with you, earn his own UKARA membership, and then buy you a RIF as a present
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Callsign_Tempest
Members
- Feb 11, 2020
- 5
- 0
Alrighty, well I’ll do some homework and get my head around this tomorrow, thank you tho appreciate the time, don’t be surprised if you see me pop up elsewhere ?
