Some G&G M4 questions

[emilianoksa]

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I spend quite a bit of time trawling the web looking at various things airsoft related, and I've recently been looking at the G&G 2018 catalogue.

According to this many of their top tech guns(TR4, TR15, 16 etc) come without mosfet and ETU (not a problem for me personally) and are recommended for use with 9.6 nimh batteries. 

One might expect prices to fall given the fact that G&G are now putting the extras into their intermediate guns. Not much sign of it in the UK, but Gunfire have some interesting offers. Fire Support have what look like a couple of good deals though:

https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/gg-metal-blowback-tr4-cqbh-airsoft-gun-ebb-aeg-gen-2-sale

Anyone know anything about the above gun? The stock and foregrip probably weren't very popular and that is why they are reduced. I don't particularly like them myself, but at that price it seems like a bargain.

But when I looked at some British retail sites, many of the advanced guns were described as having mosfet, ETU etc. and I wondered if the catalogue is now out of date, and the company is putting these gizmos into all their advanced guns, or if the retailers were upgrading them themselves.

One thing that surprised me on the Gunfire site though was a couple of TR16s for example which carried a warning that G&G recommends nothing more powerful than 8.4 batteries be used in them. I suppose they are old stock, but even so, surely they would have been designed to deal with a 9.6. Even Combat Machines are OK with these.

https://gun-fire.co.uk/product-eng-1152202371-TR16-Ranger-DST-assault-rifle-replica.html

Perhaps what Gunfire meant to say was don't use lipos in them. Curious though.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Don't buy a blowback - they "can" be more prone to cracking

I listed 4 good G&G CM models the other day all non-ETU's that will offer good value for money

You can run 7.4v to 9.6v without a fuss

11.1v can be tricky long term, if you beef up the gun you will need a mosfet

it is about the amps plus voltage eg: Volts x Amps = Watts

Start by drawing much over 100 watts and the arcing increases

most guns draw say 11~12 amps but beef it up and that can double with high speed motors

get it right with torquey motor and 13:1 gears and you stay in the middle at 16amps or just over

not too bad to stay on 7.4v x 16 amps = 118.4 Watts

BUT chuck in a very high speed SHS motor of something at say 40k 45k you draw 20amps +

Now 7.4v x 20amps = 148 Watts

Or 11.1v stock gun drawing 11amps = 122.1 Watts

It is the Watts really not so much volts or amps that can burn away contacts

though to be fair they are all relative of course but really though I test stuff for amps it draws

at the end of the day it is the Watts in the end that kill the contacts 

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the reply. I don't like blowback at all, and if I ever bought a gun that had it, I would have it disabled.

I will never run an 11.1 lipo. I never even think about it.

Thanks for listing the G&G guns you recommend. They are all fine, but for 60 quid more in the sales I could get the equivalent with a metal receiver and rails. I don't mind plastic if the real steel is a polymer gun, but it looks a little toy like on M4s (I know they are all toys) and most people probably prefer metal if they can scrape together a bit more cash.

I know how many people feel about G&G, but the fact is that they sell well, some blokes swear by them, and they seem to be the most popular brand of gun at the CQB site I go to. Maybe they have the best promotion and advertising. Maybe they just aren't that bad. I know G&G don't make the best M4s, but some of their other guns - AKs, Sigs, MP5s, UMP45s etc have quite a following.

I've heard that their gearboxes don't last long on their basic and intermediate guns and their motors as anaemic, but their exteriors are pretty good and they have a decent hop up.

 

[Lozart]

I've heard that their gearboxes don't last long on their basic and intermediate guns and their motors as anaemic, but their exteriors are pretty good and they have a decent hop up.

That's basically rubbish. The CM16 range will run for years on a 7.4v LiPo. Yes the basic motors are a touch lacking but so are the motors in pretty much ANY entry level gun. 

G&G guns are generally reliable, as with most things you can always get a lemon (there's many a post on here about a particular 416 that was an utter dog) but they're popular for a reason and not just because they have good marketing (that'll be Nuprol you're thinking of).

 

[emilianoksa]

That's reassuring Lozart because I might just be buying a Combat Machine or one of the same with metal receiver ie. a GC16 basic sort of gun.

I've come to the conclusion that everybody should have an M4, whether they like them or not. ?After all they are the most widely used assault rifle the West has to combat its enemies. Even the SAS use them.

I just want a simple reliable one without all the gizmos that can go wrong. I would prefer it in metal, but I don't want to pay more than 200 quid.

I am giving serious consideration to Specna, but like all makes, they receive mixed reviews. Unlike G&G they haven't been around very long. Do you go for a newcomer or an established brand that will sell faster if you get tired of it?

But, to be honest I am not really interested in buying and selling any more. I'm too old for that now. I want keepers. I won't be giving my guns a hard time. I suppose I'm a collector as much as a skirmisher.

 

[Lozart]

That's reassuring Lozart because I might just be buying a Combat Machine or one of the same with metal receiver ie. a GC16 basic sort of gun.

I've come to the conclusion that everybody should have an M4, whether they like them or not. ?After all they are the most widely used assault rifle the West has to combat its enemies. Even the SAS use them.

I just want a simple reliable one without all the gizmos that can go wrong. I would prefer it in metal, but I don't want to pay more than 200 quid.

I am giving serious consideration to Specna, but like all makes, they receive mixed reviews. Unlike G&G they haven't been around very long. Do you go for a newcomer or an established brand that will sell faster if you get tired of it?

But, to be honest I am not really interested in buying and selling any more. I'm too old for that now. I want keepers. I won't be giving my guns a hard time. I suppose I'm a collector as much as a skirmisher.

Either a CM or a GC will serve you well. As you say if you don't give it a hard life any gun will last (well...almost any gun).

If you want a testimonial on the Specna then a good few DevTSix guys swear by them for their SEAL MK18 loadouts. They're incredibly well made, the gearboxes come from GFC (who have been around for a good while) and the fit and finish is top notch (certainly at that price point). I think it's fair to say that they're cheap because they're not a big name brand yet not because thy're sub par! Shame you're not down this way, you could have a go with mine!

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks Lozart.

I am not familiar with the DevTSix . Is this a team of some sort?

Who are GFC? I always thought those letters stood for Gunfire Custom.

I do intend to research Specna thoroughly. As you imply, as they grow in popularity their prices will rise. They don't seem to be available in the US at the moment. If they ever get into that market they will do well. Are the ones with the crane stock wired to the rear?

I have often thought about the LCT M4s too. They have excellent externals and they often come up for sale cheap at Fire Support (not at Gunfire for some reason) because they are not a well known or popular brand,  and have only basic but solid internals. I have been very impressed with their AKs.

Thanks again for helping me out.

 

 

[Lozart]

Thanks Lozart.

I am not familiar with the DevTSix . Is this a team of some sort?

Who are GFC? I always thought those letters stood for Gunfire Custom.

I do intend to research Specna thoroughly. As you imply, as they grow in popularity their prices will rise. They don't seem to be available in the US at the moment. If they ever get into that market they will do well. Are the ones with the crane stock wired to the rear?

I have often thought about the LCT M4s too. They have excellent externals and they often come up for sale cheap at Fire Support (not at Gunfire for some reason) because they are not a well known or popular brand,  and have only basic but solid internals. I have been very impressed with their AKs.

Thanks again for helping me out.

 

DT6 is a DEVGRU milsim impression team. They are the de facto source for info on building a MK18 for a lot of folks (myself included). Several of their member sing the praises of the Specna Arms guns.

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks Lozart.

At first I thought a CM16 would be a sensible buy for me.

Then for 50 or 60 quid more I thought a GC16 might be worth it for the metal receiver.

Now I am noticing that some of the old Top Tech G&Gs which have stronger internals but none of the modern gizmos are often in the sales because they are old technology.

I've seen TR4s on offer for as little as £180 quid. Not often but it happens. £230 is more common but that still seems like a good price for a solid gun.

What would you do if you had the money and wanted an M4. Remember that I prefer simple guns, and nimh batteries more than satisfy my modest needs.

I was going to try lipo, but finally decided to get another gun rather than shell out for an Imax balance charger and BAT SAFE . Despite being a worrier I was going to try them, since everybody seems to use a 7'4.But then I ran into problems with my wife when I explained what a BAT SAFE was. So I began to consider LIFE cells which are nowhere near as volatile, but put more strain on the gearbox than a 7.4 or 9.6. Then I just decided to leave the decision til later.

So all I want is a reasonable M4 which will take a 9.6 in a crane stock, or even in the foregrip. 

I wonder how many G&G enthusiasts, given a choice between this  https://roeairsoft.co.uk/gg-gc16-ffr-9-special-1450-p.asp  and this https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info.php? cPath=268&products_id=6100, but without mosfet and for 100 pounds less than the one shown,  would still regard the CM16 Raider as a better buy.

I know Sitting Duck would.

 

[Lozart]

Given the choice, I'd get the Top Tech if it's sensible money. Is the CM16 a great gun at a good price? Yes. Is the Top Tech a better gun all round? Again, yes.

I'd still probably actually get a Specna though. I have a Top Tech SCAR-L and honestly, there's very little to choose between that and my Specna which cost under £200. The Specna has had a new motor (SHS Hi Torque) but then so has the SCAR. None of my guns get used and abused to the point that they break but in all the time I've had both of them, the bottom rail on the SCAR has come loose and one of the screws holding the back end on has mysteriously disappeared. They're both reliable, they're both metal where it counts and polymer where they're supposed to be (SCAR upper).

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks. I'll bear that in mind.

I haven't discounted Specna. Still just gathering more information. At some stage I will have to acquire some basic technical knowledge and learn how to do a few simple upgrades.

But for most things I would need the help of a tech. And I have no idea which local ones are the most reliable. I suppose there must be some who are best avoided. This is true in all walks of life.

 

[Lozart]

Thanks. I'll bear that in mind.

I haven't discounted Specna. Still just gathering more information. At some stage I will have to acquire some basic technical knowledge and learn how to do a few simple upgrades.

But for most things I would need the help of a tech. And I have no idea which local ones are the most reliable. I suppose there must be some who are best avoided. This is true in all walks of life.

There's plenty of folk here willing to offer help and advice, failing that @Jez_Armstrong can fix most stuff!

 

[emilianoksa]

Thanks for the reference.

 

[emilianoksa]

Whilst on the subject of G&G, can anyone tell me if it's normal for their M4 mags to have quite a bit of side to side wobble in the  magwell?

I know it can be fixed with a bit of tape, but I wondered if this was generally the case with hicaps, midcaps or both.

I'm beginning to understand why Sitting Duck doesn't like the Top Techs. A lot of them have been around since 2009 and they are old technology. They have no Mosfet, ETU, bolt release etc, and you even have to open the ejection port manually. One or two places are selling them off at reduced prices because of this, but a lot of retailers still have them marked up for as much as £330. Now I know why people say you can get better for the money.

 

[E21A]

Get side to side wobble on high cap and my mid caps on my wild hog, doesn’t really bother me, still can’t force it out so not a worry for me. 

 

[emilianoksa]

I'm beginning to think the GR 15 Raider cqb might be a good second rifle.

Same polymer body as on the CM16 Raider, but with metal rails. A bit of extra weight but not too much. Not very expensive. Woud probably also suit other members of my family that I would like to get involved in the sport.

I think it might have a better motor too.

 

[E21A]

Pretty sure CM16’s have metal rails 

 

[Lozart]

Pretty sure CM16’s have metal rails 

Which CM16? All the ones I've seen have polymer rails.

 

[Gepard]

Which CM16? All the ones I've seen have polymer rails.

The only ones I know of that are made out of metal are the keymod rail systems. Everything else is polymer. 

 

[E21A]

The only ones I know of that are made out of metal are the keymod rail systems. Everything else is polymer. 

Probably this then 

I only looked at keymod ones