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Should more sites weigh the bbs during chrono?

No idea whether it was as a result of a hot gun (but as the thread has taken a bit of a swerve, i'll mention it anyway!), but the first game I wore my shiny new bolle X800 knock-offs (bought from a legit UK retailer), a BB launched from at least 20m away shattered the plastic fitting that the elastic strap was fixed to, and they pinged off my face in the middle of a pretty hefty assault on my position from the opposing team. I'm sure the lenses themselves could have taken a huge amount of abuse, but there are other weak points (and possibly those weak points are not actually subject to testing by the manufacturer against the various standards?). Super bad luck - definitely, but I now inspect any glasses I wear these days for similar such weaknesses.
yea ive seen it a few time 

I genuinely don't get what you're talking about with the eyepro there boss.

A half joule higher shot can tear the straps? Or something about skin foam contact? 

Isn't your skin already contacting the foam?
ok so if you have full eye seal, type of foam is usually what is contacting skin  , bbs can squeeze thru the foam skin part  , yes straps and attachment points break when shot all the time 

 
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better then no chrono at all also gives better cover with insurance if anything happens,  
Is it better though if people are still getting caught in the morning?  It clearly isn’t doing what it is supposed to.

There are chronos at AP and people use them.  I have known people to do so and then put a gun back in the bag because it is hot; my mate Tom did so recently.  It is about the culture and ethos of the site; wankers don’t seem to last long there.

 
Is it better though if people are still getting caught in the morning?  It clearly isn’t doing what it is supposed to.

There are chronos at AP and people use them.  I have known people to do so and then put a gun back in the bag because it is hot; my mate Tom did so recently.  It is about the culture and ethos of the site; wankers don’t seem to last long there.
still they chrono no one and only spot check , here  this is why it is bad, lets say 10 people play , we know 2 are intentionally cheating with hot shooters and the other 8 are as honest as honest can be , we don't do mandatory chrono at the start of the day and only spot check during games, we spot check during the second game, 4 people all pass, 2 people are still out on site with hot shooters.

 
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still they chrono no one and only spot check , here  this is why it is bad, lets say 10 people play , we know 2 are intentionally cheating with hot shooters and the other 8 are as honest as honest can be , we don't do mandatory chrono at the start of the day and only spot check during games, we spot check during the second game, 4 people all pass, 2 people are still out on site with hot shooters.
Which is exactly the same situation as at the vast majority of other sites.  Intentional cheats will lie about BB weights, use different BBs to chrono and dial up the hop.

 
I think we can argue this for the next couple of months, but ultimately all sites should be chronoing at the start of the day, on one weight, probably 0.20, and be prepared to have marshals do random on the spot checks using the same weight, especially if particular players have history or complaints made against them.

End of the day, cheats WILL cheat, they'll use everything they can to achieve what the perceive to be an advantage over their fellow players, hpa, npas, quick change springs etc all enable them to make short notice changes to energy output after the chrono, & sites can't stop them, but they're letting down their honest clients by not trying their hardest to root out the cheats, & when found they should be very publicly banned.

Any site that does that, I'd play there, as was said earlier, it's all about trust so any site that works hard to push that agenda gets my vote.

 
better then no chrono at all also gives better cover with insurance if anything happens


On that, I did some health and safety liability training last century - specifically about how to avoid being sued or charged when things go wrong, as they will.

It was drilled in that the worst thing you can do from a liability perspective is to identify a risk, and then put in place inadequate mitigation, because what you're doing is creating the rod that the HSE (or an insurer) will use to beat you.

"You claimed that all players must be checked before playing. So run us through how Harry Hotgun evaded your checks and injured Tiny Tim, and why your process failed to anticipate and prevent that."

How would you defend pre-game chrono, especially with "Trust me, bro" BB weights?  We all know that it's trivial to cheat it, it's not a secret. ?‍♂️

 
On that, I did some health and safety liability training last century - specifically about how to avoid being sued or charged when things go wrong, as they will.

It was drilled in that the worst thing you can do from a liability perspective is to identify a risk, and then put in place inadequate mitigation, because what you're doing is creating the rod that the HSE (or an insurer) will use to beat you.

"You claimed that all players must be checked before playing. So run us through how Harry Hotgun evaded your checks and injured Tiny Tim, and why your process failed to anticipate and prevent that."

How would you defend pre-game chrono, especially with "Trust me, bro" BB weights?  We all know that it's trivial to cheat it, it's not a secret. ?‍♂️
so we take the assumption he is intentional cheating the chrono and hurts someone , and is then caught? if so, then the site wouldn't be found at fault it would be the player who intentional cheated would be found at fault 

 
so we take the assumption he is intentional cheating the chrono and hurts someone , and is then caught? if so, then the site wouldn't be found at fault it would be the player who intentional cheated would be found at fault 


Then what was the point of the chrono?

If you believe players about their BB weight, why wouldn't you just believe them when they say "I'm shooting at 1.1J" ?

It's a genuine question. If we can agree that telling a simple lie make the chrono calculation meaningless, then does it really matter what the lie is?

 
so we take the assumption he is intentional cheating the chrono and hurts someone , and is then caught? if so, then the site wouldn't be found at fault it would be the player who intentional cheated would be found at fault 
If the site had identified a risk of people attempting to cheat the chrono and someone had managed to do so, the site would very possibly be found to be at fault as their measures to prevent it happening were inadequate.

Anyway, I am out of this discussion; it is like trying to have a rational conversation with a flat earther.

 
If the site had identified a risk of people attempting to cheat the chrono and someone had managed to do so, the site would very possibly be found to be at fault as their measures to prevent it happening were inadequate.

Anyway, I am out of this discussion; it is like trying to have a rational conversation with a flat earther.
first off why are you name calling me for wanting to have more rigours standards for chrono then none at all,   site culture and community is better then having a safety procedure?. anyone in mitigation against a site, using AP as an example  as a defence would auto win they do not have mandatory chrono and have no way of knowing how many people are cheating the chrono on any given day  

you are arguing that we dont need seat belts because  sometimes people die  wearing a seat belt. 

Then what was the point of the chrono?

If you believe players about their BB weight, why wouldn't you just believe them when they say "I'm shooting at 1.1J" ?

It's a genuine question. If we can agree that telling a simple lie make the chrono calculation meaningless, then does it really matter what the lie is?
if they lie about bb weight its easy to tell because of the chrono results , as i said before integral part of the hobby knowing bb weight ,fps and the chrono,

the point of chrono is to cover you for insurance and insuring everyone is within the limit the site has set,if your telling porkies at the chrono and airsoft im gonna consider them a bad actor and we dont want that type of person around an honesty type hobby   

 
if they lie about bb weight its easy to tell because of the chrono results


I honestly have no idea what this is meant to mean. If my gun is shooting hot with 0.36g, but tell you that I'm using 0.25g, how can you tell?

the point of chrono is to cover you for insurance


It does seem likely that insurers are happy with sites running a fundamentally farcical "Trust me bro" system. Until something does go wrong, and then they might discover that they were never really happy with it.

and insuring everyone is within the limit the site has set


"Trust me bro" chrono doesn't do that.

if your telling porkies at the chrono and airsoft im gonna consider them a bad actor and we dont want that type of person around an honesty type hobby


Oh, I fully agree. But what I really care about are catching and ejecting people shooting hot in the field, because that's the actual risk. At that point, I don't really care what lies they told earlier - and they may not have told any, they might have just pulled a hot bag out of a gun and walked straight on with it. All that really matters is that they are running a hot gun.

And the only way to catch that is by chronoing on the field, using BBs of a known weight.

 
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joules and fps not matching up
That makes no sense at all. The joules is calculated using the weight given by the player so if the player lies about the bb weight then the joules reading will be wrong making a hot gun appear ok

 
That makes no sense at all. The joules is calculated using the weight given by the player so if the player lies about the bb weight then the joules reading will be wrong making a hot gun appear ok
na the fps will not match your joule reading if i have a j reading of 1.2 and say im using 0.2 the fps is gonna be 360 mark if i have the same j reading and they say they are using 0.2 and the fps is 240 , im gonna question that and ask to weigh the bbs cos there using heavy ammo , 0.45 bbs 

 
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Maybe for when the claimed and actual weights are at either end of the weight ranges. If the cheating player were to use a 0.32 bb at 1.2j the fps would be 284

 
Maybe for when the claimed and actual weights are at either end of the weight ranges. If the cheating player were to use a 0.32 bb at 1.2j the fps would be 284
that specific example would be related to what the site rules are ... so for example  if the site rules where 1.2 j for full auto 1.88 for dmr and 2.3 for bolt action and a guy rolled up and said he was using .32s and his fps was 280/290 and his joules are 1.20/1.25 that's with in an acceptable variance all depending on how much over the site allows , i would be raising eye brows if if he said .32 and his fps is 240 and his joules is 1.20 , i don't think the average person cheating the chrono is going to such efforts to hide small % , but more larger jumps, i would also probly assume that people that are new to the hobby and either dont understand joule creep or that changing the weight is cheating the chrono ,i see it all the time on posts  on facebook about people being a little to hot and some peoples advice is to just use heavy ammo , the consequences of that catch up with people  

 
they say they are using 0.2 and the fps is 240


Why would someone planning to lie to you tell such an obvious lie?  They'd be under 1.2J with anything up to 0.45g anyway.

We're talking about the situation where Harry Hotgun says "Yeah, mate, using point twos today, mate", chronos at 350fps, then walks onto the field shooting 2J with the 0.36g that he's really got loaded.

How does trusting him about the BB weight catch that?

 
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