Short-Film Project 'Men of War' looking for help with WWII weapons!

[MenofWar-Producer]

Hello everyone!

My name is Filip Biedron, I'm a second year Film & Video Production student from the University of Derby.
Me and my crew are currently in the process of pre-production of a WWII short film titled 'Men of War'- which we are going to film on the 9th, 10th and 11th of April 2013 and we looking for a few props for it, concretely WWII weapons, and specifically: x2 Karabiner 98k (but any German bolt action rifle would make it) and also any other two WWII weapons such as pistols/revolvers, sub and machine guns or rifles (MP40, PPSH, Luger, Mosin-Nagant, or others) - but preferably Polish or Russian weapons.

In order to this, we are looking for people who would be able to come on set with the airsoft weapons who would, obviously, need to be licensed to have them. We don't have a big budget but we would we able to pay for expenses, travel costs, and an incentive depending on the deal. As said before, will be filming for three days in a forest in the outskirts of Derby- but we would only need the weapons for one of those days.

Please check out our IndieGoGo campaign to find all the information regarding to the project such as the story, crew and what we need for this project: http://igg.me/at/menofwar

I would be very grateful if anyone who could help us with this short film could come back to me with any information regarding to the previously said.

Thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Filip Biedron.

 

[Tariq]

Sorry to say, but if the forest is public land it would be a firearms offence to take any RIFs or IFs into it.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

Sorry to say, but if the forest is public land it would be a firearms offence to take any RIFs or IFs into it.

Well, that's why we want a licensed person to be on set, and obviouslty, we will let the local police and fire department know.

 

[Tariq]

It doesn't quite work like that im afraid.

You would need your local council to close the area, with police aware and in support of it.

There is no such thing as a licensed person. As players we earn a defence to legally purchase these guns, however we still have to abide by the law.

The only person who could possibly get away with running around in public with them is an Armed Response Unit

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

It doesn't quite work like that im afraid.

You would need your local council to close the area, with police aware and in support of it.

There is no such thing as a licensed person. As players we earn a defence to legally purchase these guns, however we still have to abide by the law.

The only person who could possibly get away with running around in public with them is an Armed Response Unit

The place where we are filming is away from main roads or paths, so it's quite deep inside the forest where no one can see us, but as said, we will inform the local police, fire department and have as much health and safety precautions as possible. Also, we will only take the weapons out when needed.

 

[Tariq]

While you think that may be safe, the police will see that as "we're just going to break the law in a safe fashion".

Whether there are paths are close or not. It is a criminal offence to do so.

Is 12 months - 7 Years in prison worth your short film?

Why not ask local airsoft / paintball sites to hire out the area and film in there. There would be plenty of wooded sites that would probably be just as good, but would not result in you breaking the law.

VCRA: Firearms Act 1968

Section 19

Carrying a loaded shot gun, air weapon, (whether loaded or not), any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm or an imitation firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (Archbold 24.56). Possession of an air weapon or an imitation firearm in a public place (section 19 Firearms Act 1968) is triable summarily only (see Schedule 6) and carries a maximum sentence of 6 months' imprisonment prior to 1 October 2007. After that date section 41(1) Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 increases the penalty for possession of an imitation firearm but not an air weapon to 12 months and makes the offence triable either way.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

While you think that may be safe, the police will see that as "we're just going to break the law in a safe fashion".

Whether there are paths are close or not. It is a criminal offence to do so.

Is 12 months - 7 Years in prison worth your short film?

Why not ask local airsoft / paintball sites to hire out the area and film in there. There would be plenty of wooded sites that would probably be just as good, but would not result in you breaking the law.

VCRA: Firearms Act 1968

Section 19

Carrying a loaded shot gun, air weapon, (whether loaded or not), any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm or an imitation firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (Archbold 24.56). Possession of an air weapon or an imitation firearm in a public place (section 19 Firearms Act 1968) is triable summarily only (see Schedule 6) and carries a maximum sentence of 6 months' imprisonment prior to 1 October 2007. After that date section 41(1) Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 increases the penalty for possession of an imitation firearm but not an air weapon to 12 months and makes the offence triable either way.

We've been told that if we inform the local police, local council, and only use airsoft weapons that we won't get into any kind of trouble. As I now see, they might have been wrong. Filming in a paintball area is a good idea- the thing is that we are running out of time and I'm wondering if we will find time to organise it. Thanks for the great support!

 

[Tariq]

Recommend getting in contact with a local site.

Depending on the Paintball or Airsoft site you should be able to book out a day for non-standard usage if you explain what you want to do.

For insurance purposes some of the members of site will probably need to be present, and they would probably ask for a small cost for your usage, but this would be your easiest option.

However most full time airsoft/paintball sites are allowed and insured to have RIFS on site at any time so would not require informing the council, police etc saving you time.

You could also find some private land, and get the owner's permission. However this would still require informing the police, and actually still be away from paths / residential areas etc.

(Pain the in arse option)

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

Recommend getting in contact with a local site.

Depending on the Paintball or Airsoft site you should be able to book out a day for non-standard usage if you explain what you want to do.

For insurance purposes some of the members of site will probably need to be present, and they would probably ask for a small cost for your usage, but this would be your easiest option.

However most full time airsoft/paintball sites are allowed and insured to have RIFS on site at any time so would not require informing the council, police etc saving you time.

You could also find some private land, and get the owner's permission. However this would still require informing the police, and actually still be away from paths / residential areas etc.

(Pain the in arse option)

This sounds like a good option, I'll try to get in touch with any Derby local places to see if they would be able to help us out that way, and also, try filming in their paintball/airsoft areas so that we don't need all that paperwork from the council, polce, etc. Thanks for the great info!

 

[NickM]

If you are serious about getting people with WWII kit then your best bet might be to post a message on

http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/php/phpBB2/index.php

Before you do that you would probably be best to heed Tariq's advice, find a site that will let you use their woods, you may even find that a WWII event is already going on somewhere and you could film that, or film in the down time perhaps. Save you paying people expenses you could get in on an established event.

Shame you are filming that weekend and not around the 21st of April there is an event advertised, looks like its in buildings though but on the plus side it's a German vs Russians in Stalingrad setup.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

If you are serious about getting people with WWII kit then your best bet might be to post a message on

http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/php/phpBB2/index.php

Before you do that you would probably be best to heed Tariq's advice, find a site that will let you use their woods, you may even find that a WWII event is already going on somewhere and you could film that, or film in the down time perhaps. Save you paying people expenses you could get in on an established event.

Shame you are filming that weekend and not around the 21st of April there is an event advertised, looks like its in buildings though but on the plus side it's a German vs Russians in Stalingrad setup.

Thanks for the great link! The website looks very useful. I just got registered

 

[NickM]

Quite a few of them seem to be ww2 reenactors as well so might be able to put you in touch with people in the area.

Good luck with your film but you may find problems if you don't get the permission from council, police etc in writing. It's not the health and safety that's the problem especially if the guns aren't loaded. The problem comes with people thinking they are real. Some of the airsoft guns are so close to the real deal externally that the only way for some to tell is to take it apart or fire it. But for that to happen the police would need to have got hold of the owner.

If you were the armed response officer called out for a group of guys armed to the teeth in the woods how would you respond?

That's the dilemma, I don't envy your position but if you get stuff in writing, and you've dotted the I's and crossed the T's in triplicate in blood ( ;-) ) submitted to all the relevant bodies I'm sure you can get into the position you want for filming. Just the hoop jumping might be harder than you think.

 

[Chippins]

Tariq, when filming with RIFs you essentially just need to let the police know that you are doing it, they then issue you with an incident number which covers your ass if armed police do end up making an unexpected appearance, though this does change if you are involving a professional level film crew (I'm talking 30+ people on set here). Also to the dude filming, it's only when actual firearms or blank firing weapons are used that you need an 'expert' on set with you, being a member of a film/tv/theatre company counts as a valid defence.

Good luck with the filming though! (I too am a film student at The Northern Film School)

 

[Ian_Gere]

You could do worse than get in touch with Skirmish Airsoft Mansfield. Not far from Derby and a good bunch of blokes. Stef is the one to speak to first. Here's a thread in the Skirmish Forum that will interest you too (you'll probably want to skim through the start of the thread and pm tommy9151 - he has a full British uniform but knows WWII re-enactors so they'll probably be able to help you).

Here's Skirmish's fb page just to be thorough.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

Quite a few of them seem to be ww2 reenactors as well so might be able to put you in touch with people in the area.

Good luck with your film but you may find problems if you don't get the permission from council, police etc in writing. It's not the health and safety that's the problem especially if the guns aren't loaded. The problem comes with people thinking they are real. Some of the airsoft guns are so close to the real deal externally that the only way for some to tell is to take it apart or fire it. But for that to happen the police would need to have got hold of the owner.

If you were the armed response officer called out for a group of guys armed to the teeth in the woods how would you respond?

That's the dilemma, I don't envy your position but if you get stuff in writing, and you've dotted the I's and crossed the T's in triplicate in blood ( ;-) ) submitted to all the relevant bodies I'm sure you can get into the position you want for filming. Just the hoop jumping might be harder than you think.

I hope we sort everything out as well. We've put so much into this film that we just have to do this!

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

If you are serious about getting people with WWII kit then your best bet might be to post a message on

http://www.ww2airsoft.org.uk/php/phpBB2/index.php

Before you do that you would probably be best to heed Tariq's advice, find a site that will let you use their woods, you may even find that a WWII event is already going on somewhere and you could film that, or film in the down time perhaps. Save you paying people expenses you could get in on an established event.

Shame you are filming that weekend and not around the 21st of April there is an event advertised, looks like its in buildings though but on the plus side it's a German vs Russians in Stalingrad setup.

Thank you for the link, I've posted on their forum now as well, very useful. Regarding to filming around the 21st, it would be impossible as we have already set the filming days and also, I think it would be too noisy and hard to find a good spot for the film, thanks for the tip though.

 

[Ian_Gere]

Oh yeah, and I'm selling 2 pairs of Soviet padded kecks cheap - in the Classifieds Gear section. They are more modern than The Great Patriotic War, but tucked into boots and with a Soviet leather belt with brass star buckle, the will look just like Telnogrieka (sp?) kecks on camera. I can put you onto a cheap place to get the belts from if you like.

Noisy? Well, if you film on a game day, you'll have background gunfire and inchoate yelling, but the traffic noise is minimal.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

Tariq, when filming with RIFs you essentially just need to let the police know that you are doing it, they then issue you with an incident number which covers your ass if armed police do end up making an unexpected appearance, though this does change if you are involving a professional level film crew (I'm talking 30+ people on set here). Also to the dude filming, it's only when actual firearms or blank firing weapons are used that you need an 'expert' on set with you, being a member of a film/tv/theatre company counts as a valid defence.

Good luck with the filming though! (I too am a film student at The Northern Film School)

Thanks for your info. We will inform the local council and police, and also have a professional person on set to take care about the weapons. Our crew will be maximum 15people. Take a look at our IndieGoGo website if you haven't done so yet http://igg.me/at/menofwar Regards.

 

[MenofWar-Producer]

You could do worse than get in touch with Skirmish Airsoft Mansfield. Not far from Derby and a good bunch of blokes. Stef is the one to speak to first. Here's a thread in the Skirmish Forum that will interest you too (you'll probably want to skim through the start of the thread and pm tommy9151 - he has a full British uniform but knows WWII re-enactors so they'll probably be able to help you).

Here's Skirmish's fb page just to be thorough.

Thanks for the links! I'll take a look at them and consider getting in touch to ask them about filming. Kind Regards.