Setting up a CQB Site, What Should I Be Thinking About?

[Jaylordofwaargh]

Crono: i am suspisious of any site that doesn't have manditory crono. Mayhem (essex) in my estimation went from "wow this is a great site" to "hold on, lead marshal said/did what!"

As to tagging, a second on the mini zip ties (rotate weekly/daily) or e cheeky bit of tape round the stock or grip make it really easy to see what has been crono'd. 

 

[Graham Ranson]

Thank you all for all comments so far, incredibly helpful!

Here is a link to the current rules list, it's not final nor in any particular order, just writing it as I think of things / things get mentioned.

All feedback is very welcome and encouraged.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ywLA_cuDyah09K6okAFq78eKRIZ8h-DVx3hX_LUYiaE/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

[EvilMonkee]

Agree with comments on mandatory chrono.  Agreed with semi only rule and no blindfiring or prefiring.  Experience from games at the Mall and Urban Assault show these to be very sensible rules for CQB.  I would also copy the Malls rule about heavy metal reusable bangs.  

Another rule I liked was the usage of numbered armbands for ID purposes.  Someone being a dick?  Take their number, report it.  Armbands being swapped from one arm to the other to signify being medic'd was another rule I always liked, can't remember what site it was from though.

 

[Rogerborg]

Crono: i am suspisious of any site that doesn't have manditory crono.

The thing is though, mandating something isn't the same as enforcing it.

I've only ever had a tag checked once, and that was when I chronoed my G36 bare and then dressed it up in its lasgun costume, and - credit to the marshals - one came over to see what that was all about.

I've been chronoed in game twice, both at the defunct Depot, and one of those would been avoidable because they assumed the aforementioned G36 was one of their rental guns, and I was honest enough to say otherwise.  Both times they trusted me on BB weight, which was disappointing.

I'll re-iterate that pre-game chronoing only deals with the players who aren't a problem.

I wish it were otherwise, but there are some folk who deliberately or through wilful ignorance will take hot guns into the game. I don't mean accidental gas creep, but folk just not chronoing at all, or lying about BB weights, or modifying guns after chrono.  The long barrelled Mk23s and Dan Wessons (using high power shells) I mentioned above were both caught hot in game at the Depot and blanket banned because of it.  Although again, banning something is only the first step, and most chrono-dodging is invisible: you need to actually catch it in-game.

It's more of an issue in CQB where you're more likely to get point blank shots, and you really don't want someone putting 2J of 0.4g into a mesh mask.

 

[Tackle]

Remember a team way back that used to turn up late for games in order to miss the chrono session, one of the Marshall's pulled them in mid game, every one of a team of about 10 had hot guns.........bang permanent ban?

For reference, if memory serves me, they came from Essex & were led by a chunky loudmouthed Aussie bird, anyone remember her ?

 

[MiK]

A hit is anywhere on the person, gun included. 

What about ricochets ? People will do wall bending if “bounce-offs” are allowed

shooting through barrel sized holes allowed ? Like wise if a BB gets through what is/looks like hard cover ?

 

[Graham Ranson]

Agree with comments on mandatory chrono.  Agreed with semi only rule and no blindfiring or prefiring.  Experience from games at the Mall and Urban Assault show these to be very sensible rules for CQB.  I would also copy the Malls rule about heavy metal reusable bangs.  

Another rule I liked was the usage of numbered armbands for ID purposes.  Someone being a dick?  Take their number, report it.  Armbands being swapped from one arm to the other to signify being medic'd was another rule I always liked, can't remember what site it was from though.

I like the numbered armband idea yea that's good and added. 

I can't find a copy of the Mall's rules, naturally, and was thinking it might be one of the rules for the new Zed Adventures site but it's not listed, able to tell me what the rule was?

The thing is though, mandating something isn't the same as enforcing it.

I've only ever had a tag checked once, and that was when I chronoed my G36 bare and then dressed it up in its lasgun costume, and - credit to the marshals - one came over to see what that was all about.

I've been chronoed in game twice, both at the defunct Depot, and one of those would been avoidable because they assumed the aforementioned G36 was one of their rental guns, and I was honest enough to say otherwise.  Both times they trusted me on BB weight, which was disappointing.

I'll re-iterate that pre-game chronoing only deals with the players who aren't a problem.

I wish it were otherwise, but there are some folk who deliberately or through wilful ignorance will take hot guns into the game. I don't mean accidental gas creep, but folk just not chronoing at all, or lying about BB weights, or modifying guns after chrono.  The long barrelled Mk23s and Dan Wessons (using high power shells) I mentioned above were both caught hot in game at the Depot and blanket banned because of it.  Although again, banning something is only the first step, and most chrono-dodging is invisible: you need to actually catch it in-game.

It's more of an issue in CQB where you're more likely to get point blank shots, and you really don't want someone putting 2J of 0.4g into a mesh mask.

Yea chrono will have to be absolutely enforced constantly, particularly for the guns that are known to be potential trouble. With enforced player bans if required.
 

A hit is anywhere on the person, gun included. 

What about ricochets ? People will do wall bending if “bounce-offs” are allowed

shooting through barrel sized holes allowed ? Like wise if a BB gets through what is/looks like hard cover ?

Hmm, good point. Maybe no ricochets.

For small gaps/ hard cover maybe just "if it looks like this was put here as an actual BB obstacle, or it looks like some of the walls just aren't joined properly and the gap isn't intentional, don't shoot through it" ?

 

[Graham Ranson]

Another possible revenue stream, space permitting, is a gun range.

Not really sure of logistics, or even interest, so just throwing out an idea but basically you'd rent a lane for £x an hour and you can come along with your own stuff and practice ( to avoid the nosy neighbour issue in back gardens ) or you could rent whatever things we have on-site for £x an hour to try out other guns etc.

Or joe public could come in for a few hours for the "shooting experience".

If all goes to plan with the actual gamezone outfitting then could also have teams/people rent out the main site on offdays / weekdays for kill-house style training sessions with little popup "bad buy / civilian / hostage" type targets, but again not sure if this is something that people would actually want.

 

[Harvem]

I was thinking that the group would be all rentals but they would at least all know each other - rather than just a Rental only day where strangers turn up - so it might make it a bit better, but then yea it might make it worse if they all know each other and take things too far.
 

Just trying to limit the potential for anyone being tempted to overshoot even with a semi only rule but yea I guess limiting it to mid/lo caps is really just trying to take away the marshalling responsibility which isn't great. Far better to let people use the equipment they prefer and then just enforce proper rules.

I'm thinking to keep things simpler I'd probably just for a 50/50 split of Firehawks / Raiders just so mags are interchangeable, both are pretty similar from a usability standpoint, but then there's still some "variety" just to give the rental players a bit of choice.

Definitely getting friendly with the competition is a good shout yea. In my day job we make games in a small niche market and we run a discord and have devs from other games in there too who make similar games and are technically "competition" but we encourage people recommending other games than ours etc as it all helps everyone.

Speaking of rental equipment, I'm obviously a long way off from this stage but just getting ideas of costs and trying to avoid doing the day job for a minute so I started looking around at face protection. All I want is something full face, to limit the potential of someone removing the bottom half, losing some teeth, and then blaming me, and probably not a helmet but maybe that'd be better, especially to accommodate glasses wearers.

But the closest I can find is one that has mesh eye protection. BBs are plastic and can shatter. Doesn't really mix that well with mesh.

https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/big-foot-airsoft-mask-with-mesh-goggles/
 

Are these masks properly rated for airsoft? Because they look exactly like these, which obviously are not safe at all:

 

[Druid799]

case in point was my EMG john wick hi-capa..  went to an (outdoors) site, and during the morning games i filled it with red gas, then as the day went on the temperature rose, so i was spot checked in the afternoon and the gun was shooting hot. due to inexperience, i didnt realise the temperature had had such a drastic effect on its performance. 

Exactly the same situation with me , using a TM KSG at an outdoor/indoor site and it was a crappy overcast start to the day chrono’ed absolutely fine , late morning sun comes out and turns in to a right scorcher . I hit one of the marshals in error he says “that stung a bit ! think we need to re-chrono that ?” and it was well over site limits . Luckily for me it wasn’t long after they came out so it had a lot of attention at chrono and the marshal had actually had a go of it and shot his mate in the arse so was fully a where of its capabilities . AND I’d been playing a good few yrs by then so even ‘experienced’ players can fall foul of the variants of the hobbie . ?

 

[EvilMonkee]

I like the numbered armband idea yea that's good and added. 

I can't find a copy of the Mall's rules, naturally, and was thinking it might be one of the rules for the new Zed Adventures site but it's not listed, able to tell me what the rule was?

 Basically, no heavy case pyro to be thrown, it must be dropped from below knee height or rolled but only after checking you arent about to drop it on someones head as even from below knee height it will fucking hurt.  Paper pyro only to be thrown.  

Its an added cost to get specific armbands and enough of them, but one I think would add to peoples experience.  You would either get very few issues as people behaved themselves more if they knew they could be readily ID'd or fucking loads, it could go either way.  Maybe add £1 deposit for each armband refundable at the end of the day to ensure they dont get nicked which would be the main issue.

 

[BigStew]

Exactly the same situation with me , using a TM KSG at an outdoor/indoor site and it was a crappy overcast start to the day chrono’ed absolutely fine , late morning sun comes out and turns in to a right scorcher . I hit one of the marshals in error he says “that stung a bit ! think we need to re-chrono that ?” and it was well over site limits . Luckily for me it wasn’t long after they came out so it had a lot of attention at chrono and the marshal had actually had a go of it and shot his mate in the arse so was fully a where of its capabilities . AND I’d been playing a good few yrs by then so even ‘experienced’ players can fall foul of the variants of the hobbie . ?

What gas were you using to make a TM hot? Also how did the chrono the gun just load one barrel?

 

[Druid799]

What gas were you using to make a TM hot? Also how did the chrono the gun just load one barrel?

Green gas in a SAT after market gas tank , head marshal got me to fire a triple and a single shot to see what difference there’d be then worked out a ‘ballpark’ figure .