RIF without UKARA (FILM MAKER)

[Freshreel]

Hi guys, I'm a film maker and I'm needing a blowback RIF gas pistol for my upcoming short. I don't mean to cause offense to any airsofter's but I don't personally have an interest in the sport so wouldn't want to pay for 3+ games. I have read that I can be eligible for an RIF if I am accepted as being a film maker? How do I go about the process of being considered one by the UKARA?

Thanks a lot for your help!

 

[rschris]

Hi guys, I'm a film maker and I'm needing a blowback RIF gas pistol for my upcoming short. I don't mean to cause offense to any airsofter's but I don't personally have an interest in the sport so wouldn't want to pay for 3+ games. I have read that I can be eligible for an RIF if I am accepted as being a film maker? How do I go about the process of being considered one by the UKARA?
Thanks a lot for your help!

If your a legit film maker you will have proof of this, companies etc... Contacting a shop they will have to make reference calls to verify your are who you say you are.

It is then the stores discretion to trust that source of info.

So if you have the whole proof they require you wont have a problem, if you dont, you wont get one.

Alternatively e-mail UKARA - [email protected] and ask them what is required.

 

[geoffreym]

why not try to find a nearby airsofter and ask him to source the pistol, and then as payment, let him keep it, i do it for my neighbour all the time, and as long as he's doing it in a sensible area (preferably private land with owners permission) there's no problem. plus i get plenty of free toys to play with.

 

[Freshreel]

If your a legit film maker you will have proof of this, companies etc... Contacting a shop they will have to make reference calls to verify your are who you say you are.
It is then the stores discretion to trust that source of info.

So if you have the whole proof they require you wont have a problem, if you dont, you wont get one.

Alternatively e-mail UKARA - [email protected] and ask them what is required.

What shop should I contact? I live in Sheffield. Does it have to be a local shop or any in the UK that will back me up? What should I say to UKARA in the email? Just that I have no intention of using the RIF as a firearm and it'll be on private property?

why not try to find a nearby airsofter and ask him to source the pistol, and then as payment, let him keep it, i do it for my neighbour all the time, and as long as he's doing it in a sensible area (preferably private land with owners permission) there's no problem. plus i get plenty of free toys to play with.

So get someone with permission to purchase the gun, and then give them the money for it? It's a very annoying situation as nobody is going to see the gun in person, only in the film. It wont ever have any bb bullets inside it as it's just being used as a prop yet it's very difficult to arrange me getting hold of one. It's a good idea though if I understood you correctly. I just need to find someone locally who does airsoft.

 

[geoffreym]

no, that would be illegal, the gun has to be the UKARA owner's, what i'm saying is that my neighbour tells me what RIF he wants, i give him prices we agree to a sensible division of the price (normally he pays up to £100 and then i pay the difference) and at the end of the shoot i keep the RIF, and he knows i've got a small armoury which he can use and suggest to friends.

 

[Alexb111]

Any shop should be fine provided, even online/overseas. As previously stated its up to the store to make sure your legit.

If its overseas you also need to make sure the shop can attach some proof of this to get the weapon past customs otherwise they can kick up a big stink.

With regards to filming if its anywhere that the public may walk/see your best contacting your local police station and just let them know to make 100% sure that you won't end up with a firearms squad facing you if they get reports of you with guns

Im from Sheffield as well, the only problem is I don't have a licence yet, will probably be 3/4 months assuming I get into a skirmish sometime this month but that will probably be too late for you.

Thinking about it your best bet is to buy the gun, do the film and sell it after. That way you get the shots with the gun you want and will get a relatively decent cash back, especially seen as the gun will never be fired you should be able to sell it for practically the sale value...

Oh and It is not illegal for any film maker to own a RIF.

Its a separate exemption to the law, it makes no odds for the UKARA.

Again its a defence not a get out of jail free card but its not tied to the airsoft defence.

EDIT: I realise this is really unclear so I'll try and clarify it:

Defences for owning a RIF:

1) Airsoft - regular player etc UKARA licence etc

2) film makers.

3) Civil servants or something.

Therefore having a licence doesn't matter, if you can prove your a film maker then your good to go as long as the shop, customs (if applicable) and the police local to the filming site are happy your good to go.

 

[Freshreel]

no, that would be illegal, the gun has to be the UKARA owner's, what i'm saying is that my neighbour tells me what RIF he wants, i give him prices we agree to a sensible division of the price (normally he pays up to £100 and then i pay the difference) and at the end of the shoot i keep the RIF, and he knows i've got a small armoury which he can use and suggest to friends.

Ohh right I see what you mean. Thanks for the idea!

Any shop should be fine provided, even online/overseas. As previously stated its up to the store to make sure your legit.If its overseas you also need to make sure the shop can attach some proof of this to get the weapon past customs otherwise they can kick up a big stink.

With regards to filming if its anywhere that the public may walk/see your best contacting your local police station and just let them know to make 100% sure that you won't end up with a firearms squad facing you if they get reports of you with guns

Im from Sheffield as well, the only problem is I don't have a licence yet, will probably be 3/4 months assuming I get into a skirmish sometime this month but that will probably be too late for you.

Thinking about it your best bet is to buy the gun, do the film and sell it after. That way you get the shots with the gun you want and will get a relatively decent cash back, especially seen as the gun will never be fired you should be able to sell it for practically the sale value...

Oh cool, nice to see another Sheffielder Yeah I've filmed with guns before on private property and have aware'd the local police and neighbours despite nobody being able to see inside the house just in case they don't see the camera's and film crew t-shirts lol. Not sure about buying from abroad, probably take a long time and I don't know how easy it is with import taxes etc; so will buy from the UK. I can't see any websites where you can buy new without a UKARA number, if there is some can you possibly link me? If not I'll have to buy the gun 2nd hand if anyone has any for sale?

Oh and It is not illegal for any film maker to own a RIF.
Its a separate exemption to the law, it makes no odds for the UKARA.

Again its a defence not a get out of jail free card but its not tied to the airsoft defence.

Then how when buying off other people online who don't sell unless you have an UKARA number do I let them trust me? And I can't find any websites that let you buy RIF blowback gas pistols without a number. Do I email them saying I'm a film maker and plan to buy the gun and hope they understand?

 

[rschris]

I have just watched the one film you have on Youtube. You seem to already have access to RIF's.....theres 3 in the film alone.

I can't see any websites where you can buy new without a UKARA number, if there is some can you possibly link me? If not I'll have to buy the gun 2nd hand if anyone has any for sale?
Then how when buying off other people online who don't sell unless you have an UKARA number do I let them trust me? And I can't find any websites that let you buy RIF blowback gas pistols without a number. Do I email them saying I'm a film maker and plan to buy the gun and hope they understand?

Even to buy 2nd hand RIF you need to have the same provisions in place. If you buy a 2nd hand clear gun and spray it your a manafacturing a firearm.

There are hundreds of websites where you can buy them from. Simply look around and find the one you want for the film, call them and see.

I am not UKARA registered but I could prove I have skirmished across sites for 6months and kept a diary, this enabled me to purchase a RIF. Pick up the phone and call them.

 

[Freshreel]

Oh and It is not illegal for any film maker to own a RIF.
Its a separate exemption to the law, it makes no odds for the UKARA.

Again its a defence not a get out of jail free card but its not tied to the airsoft defence.

EDIT: I realise this is really unclear so I'll try and clarify it:

Defences for owning a RIF:

1) Airsoft - regular player etc UKARA licence etc

2) film makers.

3) Civil servants or something.

Therefore having a licence doesn't matter, if you can prove your a film maker then your good to go as long as the shop, customs (if applicable) and the police local to the filming site are happy your good to go.

Thanks a lot for the extra info. So when making an offer on guns 2nd hand I just inform them about my purposes if they ask for a UKARA licence? You've been a great help.

I have just watched the one film you have on Youtube. You seem to already have access to RIF's.....theres 3 in the film alone.

They were bright blue, red and orange when I bought them. I sprayed them with black paint for plastic. The reason I'm wanting a gas pistol is for the kickback function on it. I'm aware I'm probably spending £40+ more than if I was to just get a plastic one but I think it'll really add to the effect having the recoil and blowback.

 

[Alexb111]

Yeah without a number most people are suspicious to be honest.

I suppose the best bet would be to e-mail them and ask, can't hurt asking but your right it is kinda hard.

Any official documentation, if you have filmed before and have talked to the police before try and get a document off them to send to any UK shop. That should get you in anywhere really...

I've heard good things about www.fire-support.co.uk but again their fussy about UKARA...

 

[rschris]

They were bright blue, red and orange when I bought them. I sprayed them with black paint for plastic. The reason I'm wanting a gas pistol is for the kickback function on it. I'm aware I'm probably spending £40+ more than if I was to just get a plastic one but I think it'll really add to the effect having the recoil and blowback.

Section 36 of the Violent Crime Reductions Act (2006) it is illegal to alter an unrealistic imitation (ie a two-tone) to make it into a realistic imitation - it's counted as manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm.

DONT SPRAY GUNS!!

Just call a local gun shop, go down with proof of ID and references to film making and voila...purchased.

 

[Freshreel]

Even to buy 2nd hand RIF you need to have the same provisions in place. If you buy a 2nd hand clear gun and spray it your a manafacturing a firearm.
There are hundreds of websites where you can buy them from. Simply look around and find the one you want for the film, call them and see.

I am not UKARA registered but I could prove I have skirmished across sites for 6months and kept a diary, this enabled me to purchase a RIF. Pick up the phone and call them.

But surely if I'm eligible for using an RIF as we've worked out since I'm a film maker, why does it matter if I spray a non black gun black? Surely it's the same concept as the end product is an RIF? It's not to be sold nor to be fired and is just a prop sorely for the purpose of visual interest. hundreds of UK based ones? The only ones I've seen really are:
http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/

http://bbgunsuk.co.uk/

http://www.airsoftworld.net/

http://www.fire-support.co.uk/

Yeah without a number most people are suspicious to be honest.I suppose the best bet would be to e-mail them and ask, can't hurt asking but your right it is kinda hard.

Any official documentation, if you have filmed before and have talked to the police before try and get a document off them to send to any UK shop. That should get you in anywhere really...

I've heard good things about www.fire-support.co.uk but again their fussy about UKARA...

I can't blame them, I understand their concerns. But it's also very frustrating on my behalf. The gun will never fire a single bb nor be in the public eye or even on any public property. It's a shame it's not easier for film makers to acquire them as it promotes airsoft in a good light. I will inform viewers not to use RIF's in public, about the laws and how 'not to try this at home' etc. I'm making a short thriller based in a garage on private land, it really is impossible for anyone else but the cast and crew to see us filming.

 

[rschris]

But you have bought 2 tone guns - sprayed them black thus creating an imitation firearm. PRIOR to establishing as we have in this thread whether your actually eligible or not.

Basically are you over 18? are you a film maker? have you got references? have you got forms of ID?

It is easier for a film maker to get them than an airsofter....you have to prove you make films....we have to play for 2 month+ and 3 games not within that time.

I dont see the problem if im honest.

 

[Alexb111]

True I can see how frustrating it is but at the end of the day wherever that gun ends up there is instances of people robbing banks and stuff with a RIF, obviously the police want to trace how the gun got there and for that reason sellers protect themselves.

Without official documentation of some form you have little chance unless you know someone with a licence who can maybe lend you it for the shoot...

 

[Freshreel]

Section 36 of the Violent Crime Reductions Act (2006) it is illegal to alter an unrealistic imitation (ie a two-tone) to make it into a realistic imitation - it's counted as manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm.
DONT SPRAY GUNS!!

Just call a local gun shop, go down with proof of ID and references to film making and voila...purchased.

Oh I was unaware of this. That's crazy they count it as manufacturing it just altering the colour. Thanks for letting me know. I don't know if there is any airsoft shops in Sheffield that sells guns?

But you have bought 2 tone guns - sprayed them black thus creating an imitation firearm. PRIOR to establishing as we have in this thread whether your actually eligible or not.
Basically are you over 18? are you a film maker? have you got references? have you got forms of ID?

It is easier for a film maker to get them than an airsofter....you have to prove you make films....we have to play for 2 month+ and 3 games not within that time.

I dont see the problem if im honest.

Yes I'm over 18, and a film maker and have references to my work. I also have ID of proof of being who I say I am. Sorry to hear how much more you have to do! I feel bad now haha.

True I can see how frustrating it is but at the end of the day wherever that gun ends up there is instances of people robbing banks and stuff with a RIF, obviously the police want to trace how the gun got there and for that reason sellers protect themselves.
Without official documentation of some form you have little chance unless you know someone with a licence who can maybe lend you it for the shoot...

That's completely understandable. I'll try work something out, thanks again Where abouts in Sheffield are you from? It was nice speaking to you!

 

[Alexb111]

That's completely understandable. I'll try work something out, thanks again Where abouts in Sheffield are you from? It was nice speaking to you!

I'm from Silkstone actually, near Barnsley but I usually just say Sheffield because If I say anything else people are always like, where's that?

I'm at Coventry University at the moment doing Aerospace Engineering, been paintballing before a few times but just started into Airsoft...

 

[rschris]

What type of scene is it for?

If you want to bring your camera saturday to sheffield, you can get some shots of my gun doing the blowback etc... and fit it in where you want.

 

[Freshreel]

I'm from Silkstone actually, near Barnsley but I usually just say Sheffield because If I say anything else people are always like, where's that?I'm at Coventry University at the moment doing Aerospace Engineering, been paintballing before a few times but just started into Airsoft...

Haha oh awesome Enjoying your course? I've done paintballing once before and really enjoyed it!

What type of scene is it for?
If you want to bring your camera saturday to sheffield, you can get some shots of my gun doing the blowback etc... and fit it in where you want.

Without giving too much away it's about an assassin who has a girl tied up in a storage facility. He is taunting her with a razor blade before another assassin appears with a gun. Tensions rise and it becomes apparent the relationship between the three people is a vicious triangle of lies and mistrust. It ends with a shootout and the remaining assassin cleans up the crime scene. It's very kind of you to offer that but I'll be needing the actor to be using the gun throughout the final scene but if I am ever in need of something similar I'll be sure to come to you!

 

[shinyheed]

Section 36 of the Violent Crime Reductions Act (2006) it is illegal to alter an unrealistic imitation (ie a two-tone) to make it into a realistic imitation - it's counted as manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm.

DONT SPRAY GUNS!!

but a defence against this is if the RIF is to be used for the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances

or

the production of films (however there are more rules on what this exactly specifies)

 

[Freshreel]

Section 36 of the Violent Crime Reductions Act (2006) it is illegal to alter an unrealistic imitation (ie a two-tone) to make it into a realistic imitation - it's counted as manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm.
DONT SPRAY GUNS!!

but a defence against this is if the RIF is to be used for the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances

or

the production of films (however there are more rules on what this exactly specifies)

Thank you.

Yeah I thought it would be a bit odd for them not to consider film makers with respraying guns. Thanks for the legal help