Please delete

Cheers :)  

Yeah ik, i shimmed them a couple of times but as I kept on having to take the gearbox apart over and over again I thaught I would save the trouble and once I get the thing working again I would take it apart and give it a proper shim, (probably stupid of me ik) hopefully I won't have to re-open it with this problem again tho :)  

 
It's not something as simple as the first sector tooth hanging up on the piston due to the poor angle of engagement is it?

 
Ahh - the problem with shimming you must be careful with the shims on top of bevel

This is a critical starting point as the height of bevel and the motor height needs to be as close to perfection as possible

The other two gears go roughly like this with a bit more tolerance.....

Spur - usually a thin shim about 0.15mm to 0.20mm below & whatever above is required

Sector - usually the aprox same thickness of shims split between the two sides above/below

Adjust these accordingly to spin test, lift sector whilst watching spur shaft doesn't move (swirly pattern on spur)

But bevel is critical and together with motor height meshing will be a very important factor in how she runs

Too low - too high on bevel/pinion will cause inefficiency and possible more friction/stress slow running & increased amps

Need to be careful messing with shimming, it is not that easy to suss out quickly but really easy to screw up if unsure

 
I have no idea as I have little experience with the angle of engagement, could you tell me more as to where it should be? :)  

 
I put a 0.2mm shim on the bevel gear and then twisted the bevel gear with a screwdriver a bit from the outside of the box when I put it back together, I then put the motor in and on full auto squeezed the trigger with a small burst and it fired, I then stopped and tried to fire again but now it is not so much a clicking noise, but a the motor trying to cycle, but it won't :(  

 
Just wondering if spring is strong and motor is weak/knackered ???

looking at motor are the magnets black or silver ???

lets go back to basics - pop old spring back in there

I wonder if you are putting in a Guarder SP130 which is like aM140 and trying to pulling it on a ferrite lame motor ???

do the magnets in motor look black:

High-power-ferrite-magnets.jpg


or silver:

mmot2522240.jpg


SRC do make a beefy torque motor but usually they use std ferrites

(not all neodymmagnets are silver but in general most motors)

back to basics - put old spring back in & see if gun operates on weaker spring

 
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I am pretty sure the magnets are silver, Also, the spring that was in the gun when I fired it was the old spring, as I just wanted to get the standard gun going again, in case the new spring would cause a problem, if it was too strong or something, so I swapped back in the old spring to be sure it would work 

 
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View attachment 23330The SRC Neo magnet Hi torque motors have pretty feeble braid on the brushes which is just jammed under the end of the brush spring. I've seen this come loose or have a poor connection that knocks the motor's performance on the head. Once the brushes are formed to the commutator and the braid is soldered to the brush housing those motors aren't bad.

 
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Sounds like a mechanical lockup, bad shimming or something

you can correct AoE but I think the locking up is either bad reassembly or wrong/tightly shimmed

There must be a little side play in the gears when assembled, normally holding the box very tightly together

you should have about 0.25-0.30mm play which when tightened -not too tight with a clenched fist

(those M3 threads strip easy - just a finger & thumb tightening up the box)

That side play will halve - but when you have closed up the box after assembly you should be able to shift the gears

coz the gears are not really under load after assembly - so you should see the have some play

If gun WAS working before you opened it then most likely it is the shimming or something else you touched

You can have one more go at shimming I guess

but I suggest you watch a lot of shimming videos first

with top half of gearbox- the half with no switch/wires - place the bevel gear in this side

if possible try to fix the pistol grip in there onto one half of box

insert motor and motor plate

resist the urge to just go nutz adjusting the motor height but see if the motor pinion is correct height

DSC_0606.jpg


that is what you need to get to if done correctly

and the bevel spaced to mesh correctly - but not forced right into it teeth bottoming out teeth to teeth

a bevel set too low will mesh like this....

Bevel-To-Pinion.gif


so the idea is motor height set correctly (check)

and bevel height set to pinion

DON'T GO NUTZ MESSING WITH STUFF !!!!

JUST CHECK SOME STUFF OUT FIRST

You may have a lockup from piston catching or chipped gears or something else

but if you have messed with shimming then that is a likely area to investigate where issue might be

Shimming is not something you can grasp that easily

not quite so straight forward to pick up or learn let alone teach

and something you learn from your mistakes

(learning to ride a bike is tricky - though not the same but not that far off in someways)

Too many people shim too tightly and over/under shim the bevel - it is important

failing that you may have to get a tech to check it out or if it really goes pear shape look at another box

I'd ask your local airsoft site if they have a tech they use

You keep messing with it you might end up making it worse or breaking something as well as your spirit

For what it is worth - my first two gearboxes didn't go to plan, first one I f*cked it up completely

I mean how hard can it be ???

Not as easy as it first looks is the correct answer

So I feel your pain

watch a LOT of shimming tutorials

try to accurately guess/check the bevel/pinion etc....

remove the bevel once you are happy, then focus on the spur/sector

get them two gears spinning perfectly buttery smooth

then chuck the bevel back in and ensure they all spin nicely and play when box closed up properly

BUT it isn't as easy or straight forward as I tried to list above

and if still no joy then you will be best getting a tech to put it back together checking for any issues

 
Hangtight said:
The SRC Neo magnet Hi torque motors have pretty feeble braid on the brushes which is just jammed under the end of the brush spring. I've seen this come loose or have a poor connection that knocks the motor's performance on the head. Once the brushes are formed to the commutator and the braid is soldered to the brush housing those motors aren't bad.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Bloody got one of them somewhere, sure they got two screws on each side & a O pinion

I have had an old knackered shs motor with a break on one of the windings or knackered comutator

it would run lovely it seems but all of a sudden dead as a dodo

turn pinion a bit and off she runs again - bloody weird these toy guns

it was re-reading the OP's post again.....

clicking gearbox - thinking trigger but then he tried motor out of box and it spun so not trigger/dead zone

then he has reshimmed it which is what I said after a few posts something gets mentioned which changes stuff

could be motor but or other stuff but the reshimming and box locking up perhaps is where I'm thinking of

 
I'm not sure how the OP put the gearbox together but here is what I have done previously.  Take the gearbox apart and remove all components, except the trigger contacts.  Take the spur gear and put an 0.015mm (or the thinnest you have) shim on the bottom.  Set the gear in the left hand case and refit the top/right case. Try moving the gear side to side in the gearbox case. If large movement, add an 0.1mm shim to the top. Refit the gearbox case and test again. If you still have movement add a small shim (say 0.05mm), refit and test again.  You are looking for the very slightest side to side movement, but allowing the gears to spin freely.  Once you have that set, remove top case and add the Sector gear. Shim the bottom so that the gear teeth on both spur and sector engage, but so the flat parts of each gear do not touch.  Refit the case and try moving the sector gear side to side. If too tight (this can happen) try a thinner shim on the bottom.  If still some movement, add a thin shim to the top.  Again, try spinning both gears meshed together. You want them to spin freely without more than the slightest side to side movement.  When testing like this, make sure you hold the gearbox halves tight together. You could fit a couple of the case screws if you are not sure you are holding it tight enough.

Once you are happy that the first two gears spin freely, add the bevel gear. Shim the bottom so that the small gear fits and meshes properly with the large teeth on the spur gear, then refit the top case. Try the side to side test on the bevel gear.  Here you do want some movement, to allow the motor pinion to engage fully with the bevel gear when the gearbox is fully back together.  Again try the spin test. The gears should spin freely.

Once you are happy with the shimming, refit all of the gearbox parts, fit to receiver and test.  One thing you mentioned was fitting a spring to give 400fps.  If you are UK based and are not intending to lock your AEG to semi, then 400fps will stop you from using the gun on any legitimate UK airsoft site and could get you locked up for using a Section 5 firearm.  Full auto AEGs in the UK are limited to 370fps on an 0.2g BB.

 
It's probably better practise to set the motor pinion height to the bevel gear then shim the bevel to the pinion. Then you just work through the gearbox making sure you have a much gear mesh as possible. Adjusting the motor height once the gearbox is shimmed is purely for fine tuning, it should not be used to generate the correct clearance to an already shimmed bevel gear.

 


The gun is fixed :)  

Thanks for the advice on how to do it, in the end I just put a 0.2mm shim on the bevel gear and then twisted it a few times from the bottom of the gearbox with a thin screwdriver, before testing it on full auto. 

Think i've still got a lot to learn when it comes to gearbox's tho but there's still plenty of time for that I suppose since I'm only 15.

Anyway, cheers :)  

 
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