Painting Airsoft Guns

"Nothing has changed in law but most police forces have adopted this as policy, so will very probably prosecute any skirmisher who exceeds them. In simple terms, airsoft skirmishers should now regard these figures as the maximum UK limits for possession, sale, purchase, import and use."

That sentence alone rubbishes the whole article. 'Nothing has changed in law' ... 'probably prosecute'? and on what legal basis will they approach the CPS?

The fact of the matter remains that while those RFDs are doing it, doesn't mean they understand the law (VCRA, which is separate to the firearms acts I'm sure they're very familiar with) and are compliant with it. Selling a Realistic Imitation Firearm (e.g. an airsoft gun, which is NOT an air weapon as defined in the firearms act 1968) is illegal.

 
Longshot said:
You have this completely wrong. :)

Painting an IF ('two tone') and making it a RIF is illegal no matter who does it.

If you have a defence (e.g. you play airsoft at a proper site) you can do it anyway and shouldn't be open to prosecution.
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I thought so.. Obviously can't type well!! Thanks for clearing it up.

 
Could I paint this (not an airsoft gun just toy, friend needs it for drama) black or make it look real? Or is it illegal? Here it is:





Thanks!

 
This is an odd one, since, if that gun's roughly the real size of a gun, then it's already a RIF (given that its current colour is not one of those 'bright' colours defined by law).

So I guess that means that you can do what you want with it, given that I can't see how it would be a crime to create a RIF out of a RIF.

Hope that makes sense!

 
Ok thanks lol.

So even if I made a clip that goas in it with 1 9mm bullet it wouldn't be illegal?

Or is the 9mm bullet pushing it lol....

 
If it is, as you say, being used for a drama, that is one of the specific defences mentioned in the VCR Act, so yes, you could make it as realistic looking as you liked, since you are constructing a prop for use in a dramatic performance. The VCR Act does what it says on the tin basically, i.e. it is an Act of Parliament intended to facilitate Violent Crime Reduction. If what you are doing is nothing to do with perpetrating a Violent Crime, then you are outside the scope of what the VCR Act is intended to tackle.

In other words, the legality of making a RIF is related to the intent. So, if you pop into the high street with it and start waving it around, then you would likely be in trouble, even if you had not painted it at all, because the VCR Act covers scenarios in which a person who is not an expert in firearms (i.e. Joe Public) might think something is a real gun, and as a result may feel threatened, regardless of its realism, even if it can't be cocked, fired, loaded or whatever (which is what all that two-tone nonsense is supposed to alleviate, although frankly, even waving a two tone about in the street would not be a very wise thing to do). Obviously, at a dramatic performance, people are supposed to think it is a real gun (so you can make it look as realistic as you like), because anyone who sees it is watching a drama, so they know there is no threat and will therefore not feel threatened by it appearing to be a gun.

To be honest, to anyone who knows firearms, and as a result, knows they can indeed be green, that could be mistaken for a real gun as it is, but since the average drama-watching audience probably thinks all guns are black, then you have a legitimate artistic reason to paint the thing black.

 
Chock said:
If it is, as you say, being used for a drama, that is one of the specific defences mentioned in the VCR Act, so yes, you could make it as realistic looking as you liked, since you are constructing a prop for use in a dramatic performance. The VCR Act does what it says on the tin basically, i.e. it is an Act of Parliament intended to facilitate Violent Crime Reduction. If what you are doing is nothing to do with perpetrating a Violent Crime, then you are outside the scope of what the VCR Act is intended to tackle.

In other words, the legality of making a RIF is related to the intent. So, if you pop into the high street with it and start waving it around, then you would likely be in trouble, even if you had not painted it at all, because the VCR Act covers scenarios in which a person who is not an expert in firearms (i.e. Joe Public) might think something is a real gun, and as a result may feel threatened, regardless of its realism, even if it can't be cocked, fired, loaded or whatever (which is what all that two-tone nonsense is supposed to alleviate, although frankly, even waving a two tone about in the street would not be a very wise thing to do). Obviously, at a dramatic performance, people are supposed to think it is a real gun (so you can make it look as realistic as you like), because anyone who sees it is watching a drama, so they know there is no threat and will therefore not feel threatened by it appearing to be a gun.

To be honest, to anyone who knows firearms, and as a result, knows they can indeed be green, that could be mistaken for a real gun as it is, but since the average drama-watching audience probably thinks all guns are black, then you have a legitimate artistic reason to paint the thing black.
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Great answer Chock, all about intent and context

 
Always had a problem with the definition of RIF as it suggests that the weapon in question is a firearm, seeing as it neither uses a cartridge or ignitable firing source (muskets ETC) the order of the words seems to be wrong, and that seems suggestible to make a point of banning such weapons. I think a revision of the the phrase "realistic imitation firearm" is needed. Fair enough to the police to treat such items as firearms, but as soon as they are cleared they should be downgraded as air-soft toys (I know people hate the term "toy" but it makes things a lot safer in that respect and people cannot mix the the definition between real and fake, and I wouldn't even call it an air arm, just a dangerous toy, kids choke on Lego... there are dangerous toys out there). I have been trying to decide on a term for while that would fit this definition for a while now, such as "cosmetically realistic firearm imitation", so as the name suggests "cosmetically realistic firearm imitation" would simply mean that this is something that simply looks like a firearm without mechanically working like one, and hopefully by name completely and utterly disassociating them from a class such as real firearms (as I said, after being cleared by a firearms officer if necessary). As for the conversion of air-soft to real firearm... complete bollocks, the materials used for air-soft "toys" would simply not be able to handle the pressures from cartridges used in firearms... they would simply explode in your hands and your face would be decorated in claret and bits of BB gun.

 
I think the word 'imitation' covers all those bases;

2.

a thing intended to simulate or copy something else.

"an imitation sub-machine gun"

synonyms: copy, simulation, reproduction, replica; More

 
Despite the fact that any airsoft or airgun gun would probably explode if you tried to put a real round through it, even if you could somehow manage it (with the possible exception of the old Brocock Pistol, which some scrotes were actually converting to do exactly that), some of them do look incredibly realistic, especially the metal ones, so the RIF definition is fair enough.

For example, if someone walked into my local bank when I was in the queue and whipped out an ASG airsoft Sten gun and told us all to hit the deck, I would not be wandering up to them saying, 'bollox, that's an ASG airsoft Sten', because the airsoft one looks exactly like the real thing. I'm no fan of all the UKARA stuff, but I think it's fair enough that it's not made particularly easy for some dickhead to buy something like that ASG Sten gun, because if someone pointed that at me in a bank and told me to hit the deck, I would hit the deck.

 
If I paint an RiF with bright colours would it be recognized as an IF?

 
Yes it would be an IF and no longer a RIF if you painted it that way, but you should be aware that - assuming you are going to use it for airsofting, or historical re-enactments, or in a movie or a play you are producing, etc - then it absolutely is not illegal to own a RIF, even if it looks like the most unbelievably realistic gun ever, providing you can demonstrably prove you have an entirely peaceful reason for wanting to possess such a thing.

It only becomes illegal if you to do something stupid and antisocial with one, such as holding up a bank with it, or scaring people in the streets with it, etc. That is the reason why the legislation about the things is called the Violent Crimes Reduction Act and not the Stop You Making Movies or Plays, Going Airsofting & suchlike Act. But of course it is also illegal to hold up a bank whilst holding a wooden spoon in your coat pocket and claiming it is a gun; it merely becomes easier to hold up a bank with a RIF at your disposal, which is why so much of the sections in the VCR Act are concerned with the supply of RIFs as opposed to the possession of them, because supplying a RIF to someone who is going to do something stupid and illegal with it, is effectively going to make you complicit in the crime.

So in essence it's fairly simple: if you have either an IF, or a RIF, then just don't be a dick with it, don't flash it about in public and don't scare anyone with it, use it only for a legitimate purpose and don't lend it to, or sell it to anyone who does not have a legitimate reason to own it (and who can prove that to you satisfactorily). Adhere to that behaviour and you will not have any problems.

Above all, always bear in mind that as much as we like the things, not everyone is into guns, nor able to easily identify a real one, so you can entirely understand someone being scared if they think someone is wandering about with one because they see you putting your realistic-looking but plastic AK74 into the boot of your car, so just don't ever create that possibility and the law will not ever be your concern. You have a legal responsibility to ensure that is the case, which is what all that VCR Act stuff is really about.

 
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Chock said:
Yes it would be an IF and no longer a RIF if you painted it that way, but you should be aware that - assuming you are going to use it for airsofting, or historical re-enactments, or in a movie or a play you are producing, etc - then it absolutely is not illegal to own a RIF, even if it looks like the most unbelievably realistic gun ever, providing you can demonstrably prove you have an entirely peaceful reason for wanting to possess such a thing.
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Come on Chock, you know better than this!

It's not illegal to own a RIF at all, regardless of whether you want to airsoft with it, do some historical reenactment with it or anything else. If a bunch of policemen randomly walked into your house, found you sleeping on a bed of RIFs and said: "why have you got all of these RIFs?" you could just answer: "because I want them" and that should be the end of that.

If you're over 18 there's no law against buying RIFs and no law against owning them. Provided you don't get in trouble with the police (in the ways you've pointed out or for more serious crimes) and end up with a specific personal court order banning you from doing so, you can own all the RIFs you want. Get your kicks!

 
Indeed, if you can find someone willing to trust you enough to sell you an RIF, then the only person to have broken the law is the seller. You can walk away with your new toy with no reprisal (unless the police investigating the seller have good reason to believe that youre a nut job and up to no good with it... I guess)

 
Longshot said:
Come on Chock, you know better than this!

It's not illegal to own a RIF at all, regardless of whether you want to airsoft with it, do some historical reenactment with it or anything else. If a bunch of policemen randomly walked into your house, found you sleeping on a bed of RIFs and said: "why have you got all of these RIFs?" you could just answer: "because I want them" and that should be the end of that.

If you're over 18 there's no law against buying RIFs and no law against owning them. Provided you don't get in trouble with the police (in the ways you've pointed out or for more serious crimes) and end up with a specific personal court order banning you from doing so, you can own all the RIFs you want. Get your kicks!
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You are correcting me for something which I was not referring to there. Note that the whole paragraph which you quoted from my post is referring to painting IFs and RIFs, not merely their ownership, which is covered under Section 36 of the VCR Act. The Act makes specific references to painting IFs and RIFs (in Section 36, Subsection 1, 'Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms'), where it states that 'A person is guilty of an offence if he manufactures a realistic imitation forearm or modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm'. Now it's worth noting here that we might imagine painting an RIF to make it an IF (i.e. reversal of that procedure) would not be covered by that, but it is, because the Act also states that something absolutely is a RIF if it would take examination by a firearms expert to determine that it wasn't (i.e. a totally 100 percent accurate model of an AK47, merely painted orange, does not instantly become an IF in terms of the law, since you'd still need someone familiar with firearms to determine if it was or was not a real AK, and they could only do that by giving it a close inspection to see if it could chamber and fire a round). Thus the Government really cover their asses in terms of how easy it is to prosecute someone, even referring to an offence being for an IF rather than a RIF in the section below.

So, when can you paint something? Well...

Section 37 of the VCR Act then lists specific defences (i.e. exceptions to the manufacture of a RIF) for anyone who indulges in that kind of activity. The exact wording is: 'It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under Section 36, in respect of any conduct, to show that the conduct was for the purpose of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection (2)'. Now the important thing to note in that preceding quote from the VCR Act, is 'purposes specified', i.e. specifically mentioned examples which are deemed an acceptable defence for having got your aerosols out and started painting up an IF or RIF. It then lists what these specifically acceptable defences are, so I will list them here:

a, museum or gallery

b, theatrical performance or rehearsal

c, production of films

d, production of TV

e, organising and holding of historical re-enactments held by persons specified by the Secretary of State (that's the airsoft skirmishing bit),

f, in the service of Her Majesty.

Note that there is no ''Because I want them'' defence listed there, therefore according to the VCR Act's contents, that is not an acceptable defence, you need a specific reason, which of course being an airsofter does provide, so we've no need to worry about it. Now, I grant you that 'Because I want them' has never actually been tried as a legal precedent, and I'm willing to bet that it might even work as a defence if you had a decent brief, but as it stands, merely 'wanting them' is not listed as an acceptable defence.

This is why I made a point in the rest of my post, in suggesting that people should read the text of the VCR Act and determine for themselves if they are within the law, rather than relying on reading what other people think it says on some forum such as this, or heresay, or, 'my mate told me that...', or anything else other than what it actually says in the text of the VCR Act itself.

So, on a lighter note, what I'm wondering, is if all that goes out of the window if you get your girlfriend to make a RIF for you, because throughout the VCR Act, it only says that anything will be an offence if 'he' does something, and it at no point specifies that 'he' refers to a defendant of either gender' Muhahahahaaaa! :lol:

 
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So what you're saying is that you wrote the post I was referring to badly? Owing that it clearly says

Chock said:
it absolutely is not illegal to own a RIF, even if it looks like the most unbelievably realistic gun ever, providing you can demonstrably prove you have an entirely peaceful reason for wanting to possess such a thing.
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and since the manufacture of a RIF (which is always illegal, but which you can avoid prosecution for by establishing a defence) and the ownership of a RIF (which is never illegal if you're over 18 and don't have some specific order against you) are two absolutely different things.
I don't mean it in a dickish way, but surely you can see that the statement you've written, as you've written it, could easily be misleading to someone who's not fully aware of the law.

Related to this I think it's worth giving people a link to this set of follow up regulations: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20072606.htm when telling people to read the VCRA, since none of the conditions for establishing a defence to manufacture (or import or sell) that are in the original VCRA apply to most airsofters (the exception of course being 'e. Historical reenactment' if you're doing something like WWII airsofting). Rather the thing that is most likely to be used as the 'airsoft defence' (if anyone ever actually does end up in court!) is in those additional regulations.

 
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