Non Chinese Manufacturers

rocketdogbert said:
I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards, but avoiding something due to the country of origin?
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Same principle surely ? I don't like China's 'ethics' and feel that it is becoming too powerful on the world stage . Countries are much the same as companies when it comes right down to it, both have a leadership, be it politicians or a board of directors, who dictate how it behaves and what it does. Expansion by take over and empire building go on with both and any one becoming to powerful is always detrimental to the competition. 

 
I think one of the issues at play here is that our hobby is dominated by products produced wholly in China which can skew peoples views on how Chinese industry is affecting the world. Yes, there's a lot of products made in in China but there's an awful lot more that rely on Chinese manufacturing to produce parts for products manufactured elsewhere. A large part of the reason for the bulk of Chinese built products going to export is purely because the vast majority of their population is just too poor to buy it. The theory of it all is that by exporting a large part of their production they bring more money into the country to attempt to lift those people out of poverty (although we all know how well trickle down economics works).

In terms of low cost production, China really isn't the cheapest any more and hasn't been for some time. The idea of "cheap Chinese crap" isn't the same as it used to be in the 70's and 80's because more and more western countries have shifted production out there and introduced the concepts of traceability and quality control.

Ultimately though the blame for this lies squarely at our own feet. If we as consumers were happy to keep paying the rising cost of domestically produced goods, manufacturers would not have needed to look elsewhere to cut production costs. Thing is, we in the west are basically greedy. We want to have our cake and eat it, we want a bigger TV, a nicer car, a new airsoft rifle but we still want to have a holiday and eat and pay rent. So we demand cheaper and cheaper goods and services to meet our ever increasing demands. To keep paying the wages manufacturers have to make more profit which in turn means cutting costs. Enter China.

As has been suggested by @Nick G, if you want to do your part to reduce China's stranglehold on the manufacturing market - vote with your wallet. Be prepared for reduced choice and increased cost though because I can't see things changing quickly.

 
If it's all about not wanting China to have a stranglehold on manufacturing and not agreeing with their ethics, which are both fair reasons to not want to buy from China, what does Covid-19 have to do with it?

 
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rocketdogbert said:
I don’t understand not buying from a particular country. All countries are politically expedient artificial human constructs after all.

I get completely not buying from companies that are at odds with you ethical standards...
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It's basically the same thing; it's about avoiding supporting their government. The Chinese government has always been rather dodgy (as authoritarian/totalitarian governments inevitably are) but for a time it looked like things might have been improving there... unfortunately their actions in recent years have shown they're getting even worse.

CombatVVombat said:
If it's all about not wanting China to have a stranglehold on manufacturing and not agreeing with their ethics, which are both fair reasons to not want to buy from China, what does Covid-19 have to do with it?
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Much of this disruption, suffering and death could have been avoided had the Chinese government been more responsible and open in dealing with it early on, e.g.:

If they didn't silence doctors warning about the possible emergence of a SARS-like disease around November last year
If they didn't "disappear" whistleblowers and journalists reporting on the situation
If they didn't lie repeateadly about the nature and extent of it

and so on.

They could - and should - have learned from the previous times they've had this kind of thing happen and taken steps to prevent it happening again, before it blew up into such a major problem as it has now. They pointed the blame at the Wuhan wet market for providing the conditions for it to emerge,  and such wet markets have been the source of previous diseases, yet since reopening they have made no changes in how these wet markets operate so it'll inevitably happen again at some point (there's also a possibility that it was leaked from one of the two nearby labs that were researching coronaviruses... we may never know for sure, but ultimately it doesn't really matter).

 
heh... no, but it's fair to say that the coronavirus has made bit of a difference to all of our lives, and will continue to do so for some time yet :)

 
Ad_ said:
Much of this disruption, suffering and death could have been avoided had the Chinese government been more responsible and open in dealing with it early on, e.g.:

If they didn't silence doctors warning about the possible emergence of a SARS-like disease around November last year
If they didn't "disappear" whistleblowers and journalists reporting on the situation
If they didn't lie repeateadly about the nature and extent of it

and so on.

They could - and should - have learned from the previous times they've had this kind of thing happen and taken steps to prevent it happening again, before it blew up into such a major problem as it has now. They pointed the blame at the Wuhan wet market for providing the conditions for it to emerge,  and such wet markets have been the source of previous diseases, yet since reopening they have made no changes in how these wet markets operate so it'll inevitably happen again at some point (there's also a possibility that it was leaked from one of the two nearby labs that were researching coronaviruses... we may never know for sure, but ultimately it doesn't really matter).
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In which case it would be about Corona.

 
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The coronavirus is part of it but not all of it, just the most recent thing. The PRC is a regime that runs concentration camps, keeps political prisoners / "disappears" people critical of the regime, uses prisoners as organ banks, etc. and there are also many other things such as their recent treatment of Hong Kong.

And then there's also the aforementioned issues with being way too dependent on them to the point that they effectively have us by the balls right now.

 
Don't worry, you don't have to start listing off the terrible human rights violations commited by China. They've been doing terrible things for years, and will likely continue to do so unless there are some big changes to the government.

I was trying to clarify why a thread that started off with a comment about Corona deviated to saying that it wasn't remotely about the spread of Corona.

I was trying to get more of an understanding about the motivation behind it as it seems to be a repeating theme onlien. Whether it was a 'final nail in the coffin' situation, a wake up call that lead to people learning more about how the CCP behave, or just a case of  'It's imapcting me now so let's do something'.

 
Unfortunately, I think the mid-long term economic effect of covid-19 on businesses in the west may actually INCREASE our reliance on products manufactured in the ROC.

??

 
rocketdogbert said:
ROC or PRC or both?
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My bad, I was referring to mainland PRC, I think as far as manufacturers go, China will bounce back much quicker than the west, an almost unlimited expendable workforce, driven by an aggressive determined dictatorship will plow on as if covid-19 was a mere hiccup. 

Whereas the businesses in the west who manage to survive will be slow to reinvest in r&d etc, as well as finding new viable business partners for supply/contracting out some of the processes, we'll be playing catch-up for a considerable time.

imho ?

 
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Tackle said:
My bad, I was referring to mainland PRC, I think as far as manufacturers go, China will bounce back much quicker than the west, an almost unlimited expendable workforce, driven by an aggressive determined dictatorship will plow on as if covid-19 was a mere hiccup. 

Whereas the businesses in the west who manage to survive will be slow to reinvest in r&d etc, as well as finding new viable business partners for supply/contracting out some of the processes, we'll be playing catch-up for a considerable time.

imho ?
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I agree completely

 
CombatVVombat said:
I was trying to clarify why a thread that started off with a comment about Corona deviated to saying that it wasn't remotely about the spread of Corona.
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The thread was never about the spread of corona, I started it as I am just trying to reduce the 'made in china' element of my life as far as possible. That is driven by not liking how much power china wields these days and the worlds dependence on them. I'm not remotely concerned about goods from china still having active virus on them. That said , China will of course take advantage of the effect the virus is having on the west.

 
Ok I can see that could be confusing and not worded as well as I should. What I meant was that covid has brought China more into the public eye and made me think about the amount of stuff we buy that is made there ! 

I blame it on the fact that was the third time I had written the damn post out, broadband kept going down ! probably a bloody Chinese router ?

 
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Nick G said:
Ok I can see that could be confusing and not worded as well as I should. What I meant was that covid has brought China more into the public eye and made me think about the amount of stuff we buy that is made there ! 

I blame it on the fact that was the third time I had written the damn post out, broadband kept going down ! probably a bloody Chinese router ?
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your not... burning down 5G phone masts are you?  you know, Uncle Xi is always watching

 
I've tried to avoid Chinese products and sellers for years. But it's almost unavoidable. 

Yes, it's about Covid-19, but it's also about their occupation of Tibet, tiananmen square, one child policy ect. 

Personally I don't want a product that's made by slave labour. 

 
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