Looking for another secondary, TM Suggest 3 :)

[BrightCandle]

The main problem with the TM guns is usually the plastic slide. You have to be careful to use the appropriate gas for the time of year to keep them in good working order or they can break. But its really the little things that makes them better. They tend to be pretty impressive accuracy wise, some of them come with fixed hop up units instead of adjustable ones (which in pistols the hop up does tend to move, they are often quite loose). The magazines all tend to have catches for holding the spring down, the way you get into the magazines to seal them is a bit easier and less fiddly and so far from the reports I have read people have less problems with leaking mags.

But We and KWA are also putting out mighty good pistols as well. They make ones that can take CO2 for the winter/more FPS and are full metal slide and models you don't find from TM. From an externals point of view the often plastic slides on the TM means the recoil isn't as good and they are a bit more breakable and don't look right. To some extent I think this choice of secondary is about whether you want the externals and higher power guns and gas options verses famous TM quality. Its no accident the long term skirmishers all have TM pistols that they use a lot, but they also tend to have other makes as well for those cold days or when achieving a particular look.

 

[NH Shooter]

That's funny... I've heard a lot of conflicting information on the above. Mainly that the slides being plastic helps recoil, and in winter their better... I think maybe Wolf Armouries did the "best Hi capa" video where they put all mags in the fridge and the tm basically hardly got affected.

The gas thing may have legs... But that's only really saying one a year... "next few months will be hot... Change gas" but a lot of people seem to be using propane all year round...

My hi capa... I had to check the slide to make sure it was plastic... Well a polymer... Looks that good.

 

[Happy]

it's a non blow back gun, the strength of the gas is irrelevant. Some (read not many) TM GBB pistols with weak slide designs and massive expansion chambers (5-7 springs to mind) will break on green gas, most will not.

I stand corrected then. I was just told before that the TM mags couldn't take the green gas so I assumed the gun wouldn't cope with it.

 

[Airsoft_Mr B]

TM 1911

Anything else by TM

WE Gen 4 Glock

 

[deacon]

That's funny... I've heard a lot of conflicting information on the above. Mainly that the slides being plastic helps recoil, and in winter their better... I think maybe Wolf Armouries did the "best Hi capa" video where they put all mags in the fridge and the tm basically hardly got affected.

The gas thing may have legs... But that's only really saying one a year... "next few months will be hot... Change gas" but a lot of people seem to be using propane all year round...

My hi capa... I had to check the slide to make sure it was plastic... Well a polymer... Looks that good.

TM guns are designed to run on 134a, so if you use propane in it there can be risks. I have heard of someones slide flying off, and anothers just smashed to pieces mid blowback, but that still doesn't put me off using propane in my tm hicapa, as if the slide does break it is quite cheap to get a new one.

I have had mine working at very low temps during outdoor night games over the winter, and it never let me down once.

 

[NH Shooter]

I think the slide blowing off is either down to user error, or a myth... For all my research I've seen MANY "I've heard of/my mate /this guy down the pub said"

... But never seen any evidence of it happening... And the local airsoft shops have never seen it happen, and the guy that runs the elite shooting centre specifically said propane was fine...

I'm willing to admit that if you were to run it in the peak of summer on hardcore gasses... You may eventually get an issue... But I can't for the life of me find evidence that shows it happening... Modern polymers are incredibly strong...

 

[Lozart]

I think the slide blowing off is either down to user error, or a myth... For all my research I've seen MANY "I've heard of/my mate /this guy down the pub said"

... But never seen any evidence of it happening... And the local airsoft shops have never seen it happen, and the guy that runs the elite shooting centre specifically said propane was fine...

I'm willing to admit that if you were to run it in the peak of summer on hardcore gasses... You may eventually get an issue... But I can't for the life of me find evidence that shows it happening... Modern polymers are incredibly strong...

It's more likely to suffer stress fractures over time though I would guess. As you say though there is an amount of "my mate says" in all these things but all rumours start with a grain of truth.

 

[NH Shooter]

Granted... But that grain could be a 20,000 round gun, previously dropped, never cleaned and run on bad propane in the desert... The thing is... People, most of the time, and even techs some of the time... Have no idea what their doing.

You never know what some tool has done to their gun before his nan met a dude who once saw it happen back in nam... I've spent the last hour trying to find even a broken slide, let alone an exploded one... Can't find one...

And it's impossible to believe in a world where someone will take their perfectly stock gun, change a grip and show the world... That no-one has photographed their obliterated slide...

I'm just not buying it...

But it would be nice to have something conclusive...

 

[BrightCandle]

I literally bought a pistol yesterday and was specifically warned about it. Proairsoft has had quite a few problems with TM slides breaking when powerful gas is used and also having customers complaining about performance in the winter, it was they which were explaining the problem. I personally don't have any experience of it, but I had to take the guys word, especially when if he sold me the TM it would net him an extra £50-100. Its one of the things these retailers are good for, its well worth asking them what they think about the various models and the types of failures their customers see. I don't think there is a problem with the TM pistol, you just ought to run it on the 144a like TM says instead of green gas or anything more powerful. That does also mean in Winter it will loose FPS, it has to its just physics. Only those with guns capable of taking CO2 can compensate for that drop.

Its not necessarily a reason not to buy a TM or to buy another make, its just something to be aware of so you don't break it.

 

[NH Shooter]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KWCNBbB3wRs

Skip to 6.01...i was saying that the tm are actually better, in that case than the rest in cold weather. By QUITE the margin... Which... With video evidence, is the complete opposite to what these guys said to you.

... Interesting...

I still don't buy it... If your guys whipped out a broken slide and I could see it... With a complete and verified back story. Then yeah... But it's just another story otherwise. And while the gun you got was less expensive... You don't know what the markup was... It's not retail cost, it's profit... And there's not much to be made on tm... They could VERY easily make more on other guns... Like the one they sold you.

Surely with all these broken slides they would keep one around the workshop to show you... And every other unhappy customer... But I assume they didn't... Because for whatever reason... They don't have one...

It's worth thinking about... I think I'm also right in thinking that I looked into them for mine... They don't stock tm. At least they don't have any on stock...

If I were cynical... I could say that what actually happened is that they made stuff up, had no evidence, and instead of selling you a low markup gun, or sending you out the door with nothing... They sold you something they DID have... But that would be as much conjecture as saying they break without the slightest bit of evidence...

I certainly wouldn't take the word of someone that wants your money... Generally speaking...

 

[M_P]

Some to guns are known for breaking easily on green, some are known to last ages. End of. It just depends which model you go for, generally the newer stuff dies quicker on green though.

 

[NH Shooter]

Some to guns are known for breaking easily on green, some are known to last ages. End of. It just depends which model you go for, generally the newer stuff dies quicker on green though.

Just... Y'know... Not a single picture or video exists of it... I'm not some deranged fanboy... Just saying the evidence isn't there to support the commonly held belief. Which is held by others that have never witnessed it. The masses thought smoking was good for you not that long ago...

This is all a very long winded way of getting to my point though... Facts over hearsay... First hand info over second hand info...

 

[M_P]

My friends 57's slide flew off and parts hit me, that's enough proof for me.

 

[NH Shooter]

You may be the first person to ever experience it first hand! I bet he didn't in any way document it... And/or the pistols background and treatment...

 

[M_P]

Unsurprisingly not, generally me and my friends don't keep diaries about our guns. As for its treatment, it was owned by someone who only uses gas guns and has done for going on 5 years, I'd say it was in good hands. He was aware of the well known issues and expected it to go sooner or later so wasn't too surprised.

I don't understand why you deny it happens so strongly, I know tariq another member on here who's highly regarded had it happen to I think his to glock 17 if I remember correctly. I love TM guns, I one 4 right now, but to deny that they are not suited for green gas is naive at best.

As I say though it depends on the model of gun, you have a hicapa which I don't recall seeing any issues about, my night warrior was fine on green too, but the stuff like glocks, 57s etc which have a newer blowback chamber that is designed to break on higher powered gases are more at risk.

 

[NH Shooter]

That's all fine... I just don't like hearsay and rumours over fact and evidence is all... I owned a fireblade which were apparently notorious for blowing generators. If I searched for the problem you would find pictures, first hand experience, fixes and reasoning... You can't find that for the tm slide issue... It's all "I heard that" and "my mate said" there's no real evidence, no photo, not any large followings of such things... Even your professional gun dealer was flat out wrong about the products (regards cold weather)... I had one i went to that was flat out adamant that WE guns were steel and therefore capable of real firearms pressures... Hence how they were the best... Ever... Also how casing was stronger than billet, which is why even cnc tm slides are inferior...

People don't understand before they regurgitate...

Strangely, I did find all sorts of... "No, that's a myth, I have this gun, and use propane... Have done for 3-5 years..." also a lot about the M9 not being that good.

I'm not saying is impossible, I'm just saying I haven't managed to find any evidence that isn't anecdotal... And that's an important bit of information...

 

[jcheeseright]

I've run all of my TM guns on propane, no issues.

 

[Black Death]

Would you consider a D'eagle? It's big and loud for that extra intimidation factor! The range is ridiculous as you will outrange some AEGs with decent accuracy also

 

[Prathios]

I have been eyeballing all of these suggestions for sometime now. But even though i prefer some of the guns suggested i keep coming back to the ASG MK23. Quick explanation of why:

1. Cheap, Same look as TM. Does not seem to be much of a gap in reliability as the TM either.

2. Due to the cheap price, I can purchase extra mags and have enough left over for some random gear compared to some of the TM guns i am also interested in.

I do find it confusing to set out with a budget idea for a more expensive weapon only to end up trapped looking at a cheaper one... I haven't set on this yet but for practical use the extra mags and gear such as a holster for it stands out to me.

EDIT - Is it true that the TM mags work with it too?

 

[NH Shooter]

Asg make a lot of the tm stuff... So potentially...

Edit...

Here we go... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Glaive/Varius/IMG_20140712_170025_zpsduwlqo2j.jpg