Jefftron Leviathon and pre-engagement issues on Specna E10

[Sitting Duck]

Vapex are a trusted name in airsoft batteries

Airsoft batteries are funny batch of juice boxes, often so called "airsoft" Lipo's do not match up to the same RC LiPo's of same spec

If you read reviews on HobbyKing, they have said the Turnigy "Nano-Tech" LiPo's designed for airsoft fall short of a block Turnigy of same rating

Be it less than expected performance - a 25c not having the same oomph as similar 25c

or the 2000mah Nano-Tech not lasting no way as long as a 2000mah block Lipo

Now Airsoft guns vary loads and crane stocks you often need ergh crane Lipo's like Nano-Tech & Vapex offer

The option for cranes is to wire in smaller block LiPo's in PARALLEL to create the SAME VOLTAGE but DOUBLE the capacity/mah

Don't do series or those 2 x 7.4v's will make a 14.8v and that would be REALLY taking the piss

Of course you don't have to wire two LiPo's in series in a crane stock

You could fit 2 x 1300 Lipo's, one in each tube and just go with one 1300 connected at a time

if you get caught short in battle then you switch over as soon as possible without going back to safe zone

(and both batteries don't have to same make/type/spec if only using one at a time

if pairing up LiPo's in parallel then they should be same types etc....)

On other guns like a G36 or an AK with a fixed stock you chuck in block type batteries which are MUCH cheaper than the "airsoft" crane lipo's

of run a fixed stock - a fixed stubby stock on titchy M4's and chuck any bloody battery shape in there

As yours is a titchy FireHawk type M4 these stubby stocks really work great with the gun tucked in tight to you for CQB I found

Or classic M4 a full size fixed stock option, though you lose the fine tuning of comfort to your own bespoke play style on full size fixed stocks

As always there is often a trade off in what stock and if wired front/back for weight balance or if to use a peq box etc....

Buying "airsoft" batteries will always be more expensive than block type

Also there are the 9.9v LiFe batteries that offer a stop gap or bridge between the 7.4v & 11.1v

Me personally I found them not to offer any really extra zest over a decent 25c or 30c 7.4v in a tweaked gun

But others say LiFe's are awesome - though my gut feel is that they might be OK in a stock/moderate tweaked gun

but in a gun that is tweaked a bit more the LiFe's that I tried really didn't seem to offer the boost I was expecting

so therefore though a potential stop gap between the two LiPo's I personally they don't have the real brute grunt of a LiPo in a 13:1 SS build

(I could have duff Turnigy LiFe's but when I tried them I just didn't feel it)

The cheapo 11.1v is what I'd buy to chuck in a cheapo Cyma 28a keeping most of it stock

end up getting towards near 20rps for next to fuck all, don't think it would fit in a G36c

so would have to measure and weigh up a smaller 11.1v for std build

or look at 7.4v 13:1 etc..... to get near 20rps maybe on better motor

Actually getting ultra involved, a JG is a 22tpa so rip that motor out of a G36c

replace it with a 25~30k neodym in G36, then drop the JG 22tpa in 28a AK & run on 11.v

(cheap Cyma motors are slow 28tpa so the JG 22tpa would offer a welcome bit of zest for a budget tweak)

ahem..... just saying various options of shifting stuff and matching up bits as stuff is a bit thin on ground atm

Airsoft batteries will cost more - even from HobbyKing and a bit more from "Airsoft" shops - they gotta apply their mark up

Places like HobbyKing you are going to one of the largest retailers of batteries for all hobbies and so you will save money

though you need to know and measure your potential battery space, checking very closely what you are buying

plus drop the dimensions a bit to be on safe side AND allow a bit more for both power & balance leads when you try to fit it in ya gun

Hence fixed stubby or guns that take a block type battery is perhaps easier to measure and choose something that will give good performance and capacity - but I've still screwed up buying a battery that didn't fit as expected in the past (oooops)

Also many HobbyKing LiPo's will come with XT60 over deans or small tamiya

so really this battery malarky is for people who know or not afraid to cut (one wire at a time ffs) &fit their own deans

Component Shop will offer you the service of Small Tamiya/Deans/XT60 on most of their batteries

all as part of their service, though no such thing as a free lunch or deans

For your battery £23 on deans plus £4:99 APC delivery = £27:99

on ebay seems like £28:65 so not cheaper this time around...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11-1V-800-2600mAh-Airsoft-LiPO-Battery-All-Sizes-Custom-Connector-/121637306533?var=&hash=item6297d00f3b

Component shop is very very respected on here, great customer service and ship stuff with low cost shipping, even on small orders

Also check out them on ebay, like many sellers, at times their ebay listings with free shipping included can end up being a tiny bit cheaper

Many sellers don't update or calculate complete costings when they apply increases or something

well it don't hurt to look, not always the case but at times sellers ebay listings can work out cheaper

It is all crap you learn through experience or rather as your toy gun collection grows and your wallet dwindles

 

[Alimcd]

Thanks, I’ll absorb the information and when the LiPo eventually fails I’ll see if I can replace with one of your recommendations.
 

I picked up one of the ASG Strike stocks recently and there’s room in there for a decent sized brick style battery. I haven’t offered up one of my 7.4 2200 blocks as I got so wrapped up in the “must have 11.1 for the rate of fire because YouTube told me so”

 

[Sitting Duck]

Ahhhh Youtube - which isn't THAT bad if you watch respected chaps

(remember opinions are like arseholes - everybody has one etc...)

the real risk is watching really old clips where stuff is really out of date

Or taking say the US techs as gospel - ergh they got 400fps + limits

so their PME won't kick in until say 30rps due to faster return of m120 spring

where as UK 350fps means 25rps is about your limit - so you can't take everything you see as 101% gospel

or old methods/tweaks of yester-year and the fanboys now matured into the not so fan-men (hopefully)

(go on I'll admit to buying madbull/prowin/modify/ultimate and any other go faster add-on's that this tech raved about)

I admit the stuff I do today is a bit different to how I did stuff 5 or 6 years ago when i starting teching ergh breaking guns

so as said it is a constant learning curve that we are all still learning as we go, learning from each build almost

Thanks, I’ll absorb the information and when the LiPo eventually fails I’ll see if I can replace with one of your recommendations.
 

I picked up one of the ASG Strike stocks recently and there’s room in there for a decent sized brick style battery. I haven’t offered up one of my 7.4 2200 blocks as I got so wrapped up in the “must have 11.1 for the rate of fire because YouTube told me so”

I wouldn't worry too much, my normal War & Peace essay bollox

Just pointing out in my own very "concise" way there are numerous ways to achieve similar results

eg: 7.4v on zesty 30k motor or 11.1v on more torquey 22tpa motor - it's 350fps so either will do

as long you don't go mental on 45k if you can help it if planning a rebuild is my own personal choice

(but to each their own as stated many many times)

 

[Alimcd]

For anyone interested in an update, Sitting Duck's advice sorted the pre-engagement issue and the formula for calculating ROF has been pretty spot on. 6 weeks of not being able to do much has led to an acute case of madness and poor financial restraint. I won't tell you what's new in the gearbox yet, I'll try to get a few pictures when I can get in and do the work but it should be a bit of naughtiness! The Specna body is currently with Mark at FMJUK for a bout of Cerakoting as the Specna finish was crap. It's coming back with a Graphite Black and Satin Aluminium paint job so purists, avert thine eyes.

Last few parts needed for the build arrived at my workplace today so as soon as I can get in to start putting it all together, I'll get some pictures up on here.

 

[Alimcd]

It’s amazing how little you can get done during lockdown when you’re about 13 miles away from your workbench! This has taken 3 sneaky Monday morning UPS-drop off runs to finish but it was worth every excuse I had to tell my wife!

just waiting on a new ejection port cover from PowAir and she’s done! Internally, it’s now Sporting a retro arms split V2, 16:1/SHS DSG with a M160 spring giving about 340 (+-5) at c.40rps. Drum mag feeds like a champ and the new externals scream “wannabe youtuber who claims everyone is a cheater”

The C-More sights are great BTW and I think it’s a nice break from the sea of Eotechs and Aimpoints seen on every other pew. 

cheers again to Sitting Duck for the advice!

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[Davegolf]

Nice, glad to hear you got it all sorted, and i think better than you originally planned?

Not my cup of teavisually but nice to see its been done properly

Bet it sounds mental with the hog and an M160!

 

[Alimcd]

I’m sure it’s not a lot of people’s cup of tea visually. It’s a bit of a dickhead gun. It has come out better than I planned, the trigger response is instant and burst mode is epic. I won’t be running the auto function during a game, 3-5rd burst is plenty and 40rps is too high not to risk hurting someone. 

For a bit less of a DSG-with-a-drummag vibe, I tend to rock either the L85A2 or a classic, no frills real wood M14 with a nice Hawke optic.

Cant wait to get it out onto the field!

 

[Alimcd]

Had a few thoughts overnight, 

It's pretty much bang on 350 with the M160. Hop is still set for .25's so it's likely a bit hot. I don't know when I last changed the batteries in my chrono (it seems to read lower when they're on the way out) so I'm going to change out the spring for a M150. I'd rather err on the side of caution and what benefit is a few FPS on a ROF build anyway??!.

What I'm curious about if what difference the spring change will make, do we work on the assumption that it's actually going to be a reduction of 33fps or does the lower spring tension of a 9 tooth piston mean that the change is no longer directly proportional?

 

[Davegolf]

Re test with chrono, if you drop down in spring strength then RPS will increase as FPS decreases

 

[Alimcd]

Hi Dave, I was expecting a bit of a lift in the ROF dropping down the spring stiffness. What I am more curious about is whether to expect a straight 33FPS (same brand spring M160 vs M150) decrease in output velocity or whether it would be less/more due to the DSG retracting the piston so little. Do you happen to know?

Unfortunately I need to wait until monday again until I can sneak into the shop to fiddle. At least in the meantime the ejection port cover, silver charging handle-handle and silver body pins will have arrive to add to the eye-sore-ness 

 

[Davegolf]

Normally about 30fps difference between spring rates, but this can vary on cylinder type and stroke/teeth pulled.

There will be others with more DSG experience, but theory and summizing at this level, IE wehn you are so close to your goal; just fit the M150 and re test, if too low you can shim the 150 to up the preload and therefore power, or cut a half (7fps) or full coil (15fps) from the 160 to drop power.