Is being a Film student at college a valid defence to buy an RIF?

[Tommikka]

Hi, I know this is an old thread but I have a question. 

I want to use an airsoft glock for a short film, very amateur I don't study film or anything. 

I can't buy an airsoft gun for it because retailers need insurance and your company registration. 

But I was wondering if it's legal to remove the two tone pain from a gun for a film?

I know it's illegal to remove two tone from an air soft gun, but if I use it for a film I can prove it was for film, so according to the law it should theoretically be legal?

I just want to check before I do it because it's a grey area, I was thinking about getting a glock BB co2 replica to use instead because it's legal but it's very expensive and i don't think I'll be able to fire it empty which is what I need. 

Click to shrink...

It’s not a grey area.  You don’t meet the film making criteria 

You’re making an amateur film, a two tone could be good enough.  It was good enough for Hollywood to have Jesus Christ Superstar with gun props instead of swords and spears.  The art will shine through whether the gun is pink or black 

A BB replica is really an airgun which is a legal but real firearm, thus is different from a RIF / two tone IF

Sellers and forum members may be a bit worried about someone making a film without the appropriate cover.  Where are you going to have this gun waved about, what are your controls on ensuring it is empty?

With removing the colour / repainting a two tone the offence always exists

Its up to you whether you do it or not 

 

[EDcase]

Also depends where you intend to film.

Anywhere in public view (even your own garden) can have very serious consequences.

Don't even think of filming in school unless its approved and supervised by a teacher. (responsibility would be on them)

Maybe use some clever film techniques instead. ie backlight the shots of the gun so its more of a silhouette and fast cuts so you don't see it for very long.  Use a torch out of shot pointing at the gun and turn it on when it fires to simulate the gun flash then cut away after a few frames of the light going on.

 

[NRG]

It’s not a grey area.  You don’t meet the film making criteria 

You’re making an amateur film, a two tone could be good enough.  It was good enough for Hollywood to have Jesus Christ Superstar with gun props instead of swords and spears.  The art will shine through whether the gun is pink or black 

A BB replica is really an airgun which is a legal but real firearm, thus is different from a RIF / two tone IF

Sellers and forum members may be a bit worried about someone making a film without the appropriate cover.  Where are you going to have this gun waved about, what are your controls on ensuring it is empty?

With removing the colour / repainting a two tone the offence always exists

Its up to you whether you do it or not 

Click to shrink...

It will just be used indoors in my house or my friends house and I know it will be empty because I don't and won't own any BBs and will check repeatedly, you have to empty and alter the mag to make it blow back dry so there's no real risk of injury.

I'm happy to use a two tone one they look quite cool and it actually won't effect the story of the film, but I wanted to find out if there was any way to use the proper one because it would add a huge level of professionalism to it.

I'm still a bit confused because in the law it doesn't say anything about insurance,  all it says is that if you can prove it's for a film (which is all footage) it's valid?

Anyhow I can always get the c02 version, I want a glock replica by umarex, and the two I'm looking at are externally Identical. The only difference is the co2 version is legal to own and the airsoft version is not! Seems silly that I put my actors at more risk on set by following the law. I'll probably just get a cheaper two tone version anyway, but it's a shame when it's for a very specific and harmless personal project. 

 

[EDcase]

They ask for 'Public Liability Insurance' because that's required by production companies when making a film.  Of course it doesn't count just to say "I'm making a film"

We all agree the law is confusing and the air pistol vs airsoft thing is ridiculous but that's what we've got...

 

[NRG]

They ask for 'Public Liability Insurance' because that's required by production companies when making a film.  Of course it doesn't count just to say "I'm making a film"

We all agree the law is confusing and the air pistol vs airsoft thing is ridiculous but that's what we've got...

Click to shrink...

Fair enough, it's confusing but the laws seem sensible, for airsoft guns anyway. 

Thanks for the advice! I'll use a two tone one for now, I'll also try playing airsoft because it looks really fun and I never knew it existed until now! 

 

[Tommikka]

....

I'm still a bit confused because in the law it doesn't say anything about insurance,  all it says is that if you can prove it's for a film (which is all footage) it's valid?

The only difference is the co2 version is legal to own and the airsoft version is not! Seems silly that I put my actors at more risk on set by following the law.....

Click to shrink...

The act itself doesn’t specify insurance, but there is both Home Office guidance and statutory instruments 

Guidance is just a general guide to the police etc on how legislation may be interpreted, statutory instruments are extensions to the legislation (they are provided for in the VCRA) and the airsofters skirmish Defence is under a statutory instrument - which does include PLI in airsoft and re-enactment (I’ve not looked it up to clarify for filmwork)

The offence in a sale is committed by the seller, and they would be looking at a £1000, £2500 or £5000 fine.  

Even if the law doesn’t specify PLI it’s pretty reasonable for a retailer to expect you to come up with something like that to proove your intent . It costs little to get PLI of £millions for an activity

The difference between the airsoft 6mm plastic BB gun and a BB airgun  is that the airgun is a firearm in accordance with Firearms legislation.  You do not need a licence for an airgun

(BB gun is an American term or a description of a ball bearing projectile as opposed to a lead pellet) 

The VCRA is intended as an anti chav law to keep cheap lookalike guns out of their hands, and to remove any claims of it just being a toy

If they commit a crime with an airgun then its a full firearms offence

As an aside, the film industry is very sensitive about guns.

A black market arms dealer used the ‘mystery’ of Bond films to justify his vagueness in obtaining many variants of replicas, deactivated firearms etc which he would then re-machine in his shed, and also ‘reloaded’ ammunition to supply organised and disorganised crime 

(Most) RIF retailers are very sensitive about who they sell to when buyers can’t document themselves