HPA bottle legislation change

[danf1234]

Has anyone else’s sites been affected by the change in Legislation with HPA bottles. My local site are now checking HPA bottles and refusing use of any that are PI marked (Stamped TT) after 01/01/23. This means my brand new carbon tank I bought 3 months ago and is currently unused now is not site legal.
All tanks dated after 01.01.23 have to carry the British RHO standard marked as a (P) on the bottle. 
The insane thing here is suppliers are still selling HPA tanks with only a TT on.

We have been given this as a guideline

View attachment 148708

 

[Tommikka]

I (think) that I referenced this somewhere on the forum last year.

The flowchart is broadly right, but fails to take into account test exempt small capacity aluminium cylinders, and simplifies some points

It’s not exactly a legislation change, but Brexit, and the move out of European standards.  For a number of standards separate exemptions were made to remain as per the ‘legacy’ EU standards.  Such an exemption was not made for transportable pressurised cylinders, and therefore EU TPED regulations are no longer valid in the UK. (the Pi mark is from TPED)

We now therefor have the Rho mark for the UK

Below in italics are some of my notes from the UKPSF AGM of July 2024 (with the odd tweak)

The flowchart shows a ‘Northern Ireland exemption’.  This relates to the complexities of Ireland being UK in the north and part of EU in the south with no border.  

The extract image below from the Department of Transports document “Placing transportable pressure equipment on the market in Great Britain from  1 January 2023” highlights that Ireland is one market and therefore Pi remains valid in NI - though the flowchart demands documented proof - what could that be?  An invoice - which could legitimately be from a French retailer selling to an NI address??

A players ID with an NI address??

A cylinder on the NI market??

View attachment 148712

The flowchart does not take into account multi national UNISO 11119 cylinders, which are internationally recognised, therefore may not be Pi or Rho marked

The flowchart tries to take into account hydro test cycles (by referencing a 5 year date.  It is not explicit as to which date is within 5 years - born date or test date.

(A non GB Pi cylinder born after 1/1/23 doesn’t become a GB cylinder if it gets hydro tested, but a Pi cylinder born before 1/1/23 can continue to be used in mainland GB with valid hydro tests)

Aluminium 3000psi cylinders also actually have a legal 10 year lifetime before hydro testing is required.  However many manufacturers mark a 5 year expiry (therefore an inspection should reject a 6 year old if the markings say so, but could accept for up to 10 years if the markings do not or painted markings have worn away)

An aluminium cylinder could be used forever if hydro tested, but at the cost of a test vs a new cylinder it’s hardly worth it

Low capacity aluminum 3000psi cylinders may also be exempt from hydro testing, this is generally called the 2 x 2 rule due to the US definition of “shorter than 2’ and slimmer than 2” diameter

This would cover common airsoft small

cylinders such as 13ci cylinders 

So such a Pi cylinder born before 1/1/23 could be used forever in GB

((((The reason that it is all referring to January 2023 but Brexit happened before is due to the transition period))))

The Rho standard applies to all transportable pressurised cylinders, not just game play ones (oxygen cylinders etc). Which means that this has an impact on numerous industries, but with not many factories and Britain being a small market for them.  Few manufacturers were/are interested in registering for Rho approval standards, and even less interested in the sports market share of cylinders 

(Notes extract July 2024)  …… post Brexit cylinders:





Pi is from European TPED and Brexit brings us to Rho certification

There are no Rho cylinders on the market ((((as at July 2024))))



If the born date is before 1/1/2023 then a Pi cylinder remains valid and can be hydro tested until death date 



One or two manufacturers have been confirmed to be able to mark cylinders as Rho, but nothing in the UK yet (((as at July 2024)))

It’s likely that some fibres will be flown in but aluminium’s will only be sea freight





(Bearing in mind that <name witheld> used his DOT bottle everywhere except for me, x and y checking - so it’s a matter of who knows and who checks). <<player name and sites redacted>>. 



Existing Pi cylinders are fine (pre 1/1/2023

If buying check the born date 



Not sure how that affects multinational ISO 



Technically speaking Rho counts at point of sale on the market, so buy in Southern Ireland and new Pi could be fine print legal for UK

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1370/regulation/5/made#:~:text=Insertion of regulation 19AZA&text=—(1) A manufacturer%2C,TPE or Northern Ireland TPE.&text=(b)is pi marked TPE,prior to 1st January 2023.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-transportable-pressure-equipment-on-the-market-in-great-britain

 

[Operator Mike]

I'm so confused by this. I've bought multiple tanks in the last year and none have this mark.

What legistlation requires the RHO P mark to use a tank? The links provided seem to relate to placing equipment on the market?

What indicates UN ISO 11119-3 is still ok? Are there any other ISOs that are still permitted?

 

[Tommikka]

.

What legistlation requires the RHO P mark to use a tank? The links provided seem to relate to placing equipment on the market?

The main legislation is the ‘transportable’ one which covers the movement of compressed air cylinders. This covers both commercial and private use (eg in your car to & from a game would be private - but complicated if you are in a work van or company car)

Parts of the legislation may not apply to private individuals, but that gets into grey areas with the odds being that a players cylinder would qualify as small / low capacity and exempt from parts of the legislation

Other related legislation for filling etc is in the world of HSE and therefore not applicable to individuals (but applicable to the sites we play at)

I discussed carrying cylinders with a firefighter neighbour with regard to the need to display diamond warning signs in vehicles - a commercial requirement, but not required on private vehicles with low capacity cylinders.

His preference for dealing with a crashed vehicle is that markings are shown so that they know what it is when cutting into your car 

The references to ‘placing on the market’ are due to the timings of Brexit and the status of NI post Brexit, with the relevance being that a pre Brexit / transition Pi cylinder was fully valid and remains valid based on EU TPED regulations and related legislation. 
 

Cylinders with an early enough birth date sat on the warehouse shelf are still valid for UK sales and usage.

Those with a later birth date are not - but as the UK is a tiny market in the world of compressed cylinders and even smaller for playing cylinders then it’s hardly worth the manufacturers going to the expense of certification and therefore it took a long time to get any to market 

Retailers should not have stocked and sold post transition Pi cylinders, but will have done so

Its up to the site you play at as to whether they check and whether they let you use a cylinder - but they are liable under HSE legislation when it gets filled 

 

[Operator Mike]

Thanks, would you be able to direct to the specific part(s) of legislation that prohibits either the private use of a tank without the RHO mark or the transporting a tank without an RHO mark by car? I haven't been able to find these?

The "The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021" link mentions "manufacturer, importer, or distributor" and the DfT Guidance for 'Placing transportable pressure equipment on the market in Great Britain" says it's "about the rules for placing transportable pressure equipment on the market in Great Britain from 1 January 2023." And specifies "Placing on the GB market’ means the first supply of TPE for distribution or use in Great Britain in the course of a commercial or public service activity, whether in return for payment or free of charge.".

I might have missed a section from one of the links (or from elsewhere) or be misinterpretating, but I would take this to mean the llinked legislation/guidance applys to businesses and entities selling, renting or loaning TPE rather than to individual airsofters using or transporting tanks?

 

[Tommikka]

Thanks, would you be able to direct to the specific part(s) of legislation that prohibits either the private use of a tank without the RHO mark or the transporting a tank without an RHO mark by car? I haven't been able to find these?

It’s quite a hefty read, but there shouldn’t be prohibition of private use/filling/transporting

There are parts of the legislation that will refer to private use, but as you’ve found is a hard read

The bottom line is your Pi is effectively the same standard, (there was a slight difference between Pi & DOT), and manufacturers aren’t making different cylinders for different regions, but manufacturing to meet/exceed all standards and submitting for standards testing to qualify for the markings

I would be more concerned that a cylinder is in serviceable condition, in date etc - but when cylinder checking for an event I would look for the key points of UK legal, in date, no danger signs - and I’m not doing any events so won’t be comparing Pi dates 

The "The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021" link mentions "manufacturer, importer, or distributor" and the DfT Guidance for 'Placing transportable pressure equipment on the market in Great Britain" says it's "about the rules for placing transportable pressure equipment on the market in Great Britain from 1 January 2023." And specifies "Placing on the GB market’ means the first supply of TPE for distribution or use in Great Britain in the course of a commercial or public service activity, whether in return for payment or free of charge.".

I might have missed a section from one of the links (or from elsewhere) or be misinterpretating, but I would take this to mean the llinked legislation/guidance applys to businesses and entities selling, renting or loaning TPE rather than to individual airsofters using or transporting tanks?

Yes - those would apply to the importers & sale 

There will be cylinders on the shelves that had preceded the changeover, and also may be some imported post changeover in ignorance 

(Quite a few post Brexit standards regulations have established EU standards as valid, but they didn’t for cylinders)

The bottom line is whether or not it will affect you in being able to use a cylinder on site at the fill station or to play, and potentially whether it impacts upon getting a hydro test (not particularly worth the cost for an aluminium cylinder)

A UK hydro tester should not permit you to test a wrongly dated Pi as they are licenced, but I don’t know what level that sites are checking 

…………..

As per the original post with the flow chart (which I disagree with due to over simplification) sites have been made aware and staff ought to be checking cylinders before filling (they should do so anyway)

Whether or not they do check, and whether or not the checker knows anything beyond what they usually see can vary widely 

(Note my comment about a player I know, that I first met at one of our events when I refused use of his US cylinder - and loaned him mine for the day - he more recently pointed out that only I and two venues ever checked him until he retired it)

……………..

Back in the day when I began playing there was a blind eye turned to the use of US DOT cylinders in the UK.  Partly with most sites running CO2 systems and players getting HPA, filling from personal scuba cylinders.  (So if you didn’t use their fill station they ignored your cylinder)

As more HPA fill systems spread across sites, blind eyes and bad habits occurred  - including under age self fills

This came to a head when there was a flash fill explosion on a site in the South .  The knee jerk reaction was to blame the specialist ultra light design and it harmed a manufacturers reputation, but it was found to be an unregulated fast fill combined with an unknown players poor maintenance and oil contamination

That sorted the tournament world for years, but they seemed to forget years later slipping in awareness when the scenario world adopted those standards of checking and awareness training.