High velocity

[Bencupra]

Not sure what it was on .3s as they chrond on .2s using hpa mate.

 

[Bencupra]

And this is why you must* chrono with the weight you will use.

*for certain power sources.

I agree but some sites still insist on chrono on .2s it's the first time I've had to chrono with. 2s normally chrono with 3s and they work it out.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Christ imagine the range you could get if you powered your gun with all the blow hards on this thread.

You wouldn't need a hop up all the hot air would provide natural lift.

 

[Bencupra]

It's consistent on hpa doesn't creep at all.

 

[proffrink]

Edit: (Didn't see your post, sorry). If you're cronoing with .3s to check it's not creeping then why are you cronoing on .2s as well? Just wondering.

Like Sacarathe says: Please start cronoing with the weight you intend to use or creep is going to come into play. Especially with the scrutiny HPA gets these days

 

[Sacarathe]

I agree but some sites still insist on chrono on .2s it's the first time I've had to chrono with. 2s normally chrono with 3s and they work it out.

Can I ask, what FPS do you expect to get when you chrono with 0.3s? As Proffrink points out, self policing is the only way even if site operators continue to burry their heads and lalalalala to physics.

It's consistent on hpa doesn't creep at all.

If you're making these kinds of modifications to airsoft guns you really should own a chronograph. You understand that creep [in almost all actual cases] does not refer to the power of the gun's source fluctuating (due to temperature, negligence, or interference) but rather the measured power level at the muzzle changing due to some modification to something else by the user; such as to the ammo?

Edit: (Didn't see your post, sorry). If you're cronoing with .3s to check it's not creeping then why are you cronoing on .2s as well? Just wondering.

Like Sacarathe says: Please start cronoing with the weight you intend to use or creep is going to come into play. Especially with the scrutiny HPA gets these days

Where's that really handy thread on joule creep? I have sneaking suspicion we're going to need it shortly. No need to be condescending when there's a thread all made up for a 14 yr old.

 

[Bencupra]

And I will get a chrono the site will know what the limit will be on a .3 my weapon is consistent on hpa and does not creep each round is consistent on all the chronos I have been on. Think this boils down to a hate of hpa and to be honest I'm done with this forum and the attitudes on it.

 

[Samurai]

There can be 3 explanations:

- You have joule creep. Your gun shoots about 350fps with 0.30 too.

- You measure the distance with guessing.

- You don't have to obey Newtonian physics.

I have tested and built airsoft guns for years, I have a vague idea what they are capable of. I never ever met anyone who claimed results like yours who didn't disappear when asked for evidence. Most of them just overestimated the distance or underestimated what their gun shoots. It's usually not intentional, don't feel bad when you make proper tests.

 

[proffrink]

And I will get a chrono the site will know what the limit will be on a .3 my weapon is consistent on hpa and does not creep each round is consistent on all the chronos I have been on. Think this boils down to a hate of hpa and to be honest I'm done with this forum and the attitudes on it.

You realise I'm a pretty prolific HPA user too, right? 3 HPA-powered guns so far. Scarathe is also looking to get into buying a Polarstar as far as I'm aware, so this absolutely isn't 'a hate of HPA'. I'm not sure if you'd find many more people on this forum more happy to shill HPA than I am. Maybe you remember this thread? http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/31403-tippmann-m4/?p=244153

This is just the usual concern of someone maybe not properly cronoing your gun and making too many assumptions - I've never known someone with such a wide bore not getting some Joule creep. I'm happy to believe you because I have no reason not too, but please be sure that you're not shooting hot. And do all cronoing on .3s and measure your muzzle energy.

I apologise if this comes of as overly-patronising, but by the way you describe 'creep' I'm thinking you might be confused about what it is. It's not shot-to-shot consistency, it's about changing ammo and having the same volume of air exerting the same amount of its force on a heavier BB and therefore putting out a higher muzzle energy. The wider the bore of your barrel, the more pronounced this tends to be as there's more air needed in the first place to volumise that barrel. HPA is associated with wider bores because it's easier to volumise a wider bore than it is with an AEG, so they're a more common 'upgrade'. As you're running a 6.23 in not-insignificant barrel length, you will be experiencing some Joule creep. It's just a case of bringing that knowledge with you when you crono and not doing it with a lower weight than you intend to use.

 

[GiantKiwi]

I've never known someone with such a wide bore not getting some Joule creep.

This.

Chronoing with each different weight, with the FPS given as what the chrono has said for that weight, but not converted to 0.2 equivalent, i've got confirmed readings on all of these (Anything which isn't listed as below 350 on 0.2's is a semi locked gun, in compliance with my local site's dmr rules) -

Just for reference, on muzzle energy, a 0.2g bb at 350fps outputs 1.13J, and these examples are just some of the 17 GBBR's on green gas, CO2 or HPA that I own which have Orga widebores in them.

WE M4 using 370mm Orga 6.23mm on Green Gas - 420fps on 0.2's (1.63J), 410fps on 0.32's (2.49J)

G&P WOC M4, 363mm Orga 6.23 on Green Gas - 340fps on 0.2's (1.07J), 325fps on 0.32's (1.56J)

GHK G5 Carbine kit, 300mm Orga 6.23 (cut to length from another), Green Gas - 340fps on 0.2's (1.07J), 320fps on 0.32's (1.51J)

KJW KC02 /w VSR barrel converter, 430mm Orga 6.23mm, Green Gas - 400fps on 0.2's (1.48J), 380fps on 0.32's (2.14J)

KJW KC02 /w VSR barrel converter, 430mm Orga 6.23mm, CO2 - 420fps on 0.2's (1.63J), 410fps on 0.32's (2.49J)

KJW KC02 /w VSR barrel converter, 430mm Orga 6.23mm, HPA - 420fps on 0.2's (1.63J), 415fps on 0.32's (2.55J)

Inokatsu M4 363mm Orga 6.23mm, HPA - 345fps on 0.2's (1.1J), 335fps on 0.32's (1.66J)

Just by increasing the weight of my ammo, i had pretty much made some of them dangerously hot, because of joule creep, so yes, it happens, and it doesn't matter what gas based propellant you use, it will happen regardless.

I used this evidence to get my site to get players to chrono their guns using the same ammo they play with, once this happened, quite a few more guns than usual were refused from play, most prevalently from CO2 and HPA users, as most haven't been well enough informed, as my site hadn't been. One HPA user in particular was found to have all of his guns in excess of 2.8J's.

Ben: If you haven't accounted for joule creep in your given FPS, your claimed range is genuinely believable, but then that's because you're potentially running an extremely hot gun.

 

[AngelGrinder]

Just to jump in here, not really adding much, but some questions/observations.

I recently did an AK hpa build,455mm orga barrel.

I set it to 350fps, set the dwell perfectly, and then when I chronoed it on heavier ammo, came in perfectly to 350 converted to the ammo I was using.

Im guessing because my dwell is set perfectly for 0.2, I'm not over voluming and not getting much creep? Am I thinking right?

 

[Sacarathe]

Just to jump in here, not really adding much, but some questions/observations.

I recently did an AK hpa build,455mm orga barrel.

I set it to 350fps, set the dwell perfectly, and then when I chronoed it on heavier ammo, came in perfectly to 350 converted to the ammo I was using.

Im guessing because my dwell is set perfectly for 0.2, I'm not over voluming and not getting much creep? Am I thinking right?

Converted is unclear - you mean you used maths, or your eyes to read the chronograph?

It sounds like that's exactly what happened. Please answer this: give the FPS readings you got with at least two different weights of ammo.

 

[AngelGrinder]

I'm fairly sure it was 350fps on 0.2 and 294fps on 0.28

I'll do it again when I get it working, but unfortunately the gun threw a hissy fit today. I'm hoping it's just the airline has come out internally.

 

[Sacarathe]

I'm fairly sure it was 350fps on 0.2 and 294fps on 0.28

I'll do it again when I get it working, but unfortunately the gun threw a hissy fit today. I'm hoping it's just the airline has come out internally.

That seems right.

 

[GiantKiwi]

That seems right.

If anything, he's losing a bit, 1-2fps, so most likely just deviation on the chrono.

 

[Sacarathe]

If anything, he's losing a bit, 1-2fps, so most likely just deviation on the chrono.

I linked the table for his own conclusions, I did not check it.

 

[Sacarathe]

Well folks, I guess he actually did leave.

Bencupra Last Active Aug 23 2016 04:01 PM

His gun was just too hot. h34r: