Have You Hpa'd in the Past and Left it Behind?

[Hatchet]

I've gone through a bit of HPA and came out the other side with none, but for different reasons. I'm also considering going back into it.

I've had the mancraft kit for a VSR and moved away from that because it adds unnecessary complexity to a spring setup. Given a MED of 30m, a normal spring gun is quiet enough and you can just grab it and go without worrying about tanks, etc. Additionally, it's not the kind of setup that you change often once setup, so some of the benefits of HPA are lost. More importantly, for me, is how dead HPA feels. Pulling the trigger on a bolt gun and feeling the bolt release/go forward conveys a sense of power to your rifle that's lacking on HPA, even though the joules at the barrel are exactly the same.

The only draw for HPAing the SRS would be the ease of bolt pull, because trying to cock when prone is a pain compared to the VSR.

I've also owned an inferno'd E&L AK, and despite efforts and sending to be teched, it never shot as well as when it just had a standard gearbox in it. It was, however, great to be able to RPS and power easily.

The current attraction of HPA is making a quiet DMR, which I'd like to give a try. Having had some success with the MK23, I could see that play style translating well to a rifle. I've been looking at the Kythera for this, partly for simplicity (no battery) and legality, but also because the trigger feel/feedback is meant to be much improved over the inert microswitch feel of the others. However, it's a big buy in with the tanks, etc etc and right now there are no games to be played and I already have 2 others guns I've bought and never fired in anger...

I suspect if I were in the same position as the OP I would hold on to the existing kit (tanks, regs) and experiment with standard AEGs and other guns before ditching it all. There are of course options for running GBBRs on HPA tapped drum mags etc which you could take advantage of by keeping your existing kit.

 

[alxndrhll]

Appreciate all the thoughts, it's been useful to hear other folks thinking aloud. I've gone through all the pro's and con's and figured out what it is I want out of the hobby from this point forward and have decided to hang up the tanks, lines, regulators and scuba tanks in favour of GBBRs. I think I'm just in a very different place with the hobby from where I was way back when, when HPA was the logical choice. I feel I've given it enough thought and consideration at this point and I keep landing on the same answer, and it's one I'm happy with. Thanks again for the input folks!

P.S. @Davegolf Y'all got any of those nubs left? ?

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[Davegolf]

I know I’m building up a HPA gun, but I want to get a GBBR again towards end of the year purely as a home fun / drills toy, and backup for game days.

As said above you cannot beat a GBBR for interaction ?

Haha! Yes plenty of Super Nubs, should have a fresh batch of HSBs done by the end of the month too.

So are you going to sell you HPA gear and go full commital!?

If you can afford to I would keep 1 MTW with Wraith stock.

Itd be a great backup, sub zero gaming, more ‘auto’ fire games/dense scrub.

Or would you keep a bottle for HPA tap MWS?

Or @rocketdogbert drum mag ?

 

[alxndrhll]

I know I’m building up a HPA gun, but I want to get a GBBR again towards end of the year purely as a home fun / drills toy, and backup for game days.

As said above you cannot beat a GBBR for interaction ?

Haha! Yes plenty of Super Nubs, should have a fresh batch of HSBs done by the end of the month too.

So are you going to sell you HPA gear and go full commital!?

If you can afford to I would keep 1 MTW with Wraith stock.

Itd be a great backup, sub zero gaming, more ‘auto’ fire games/dense scrub.

Or would you keep a bottle for HPA tap MWS?

Or @rocketdogbert drum mag ?

In that case, be expecting an email from me in the not too distant future haha!

I've landed on selling the lot, having just got it all out to take photos I'm already looking forward to the amount of space I'm going to save. Don't suppose you know anything about whether I can/can't ship CO2 canisters (I have 9 33g which are unused, ideally they'd go with the stock but I'm not sure if I can ship them... granted I haven't actually bothered looking yet)?

I may pick up a cheapish AEG at some point as a back up but having an MTW plus Wraith stock sat as a back up is just far too much money tied up in something that will sit and gather dust for the most part.

Haha, I imagine it's to preserve the action but HPA tapping GBBRs is something that I personally find a bit daft. Obviously I'm not against HPA in any way but I prefer my HPA RIFs and my GBBR RIF seperate!

 

[Davegolf]

I’m not sure on the shipping, I’m sure there are carriers, just have to do some homework.

I’m the same, I’ve never tapped a GBB.

I can see the appeal but just not for me.

Cutting the junk at home is very liberating!

Ive been doing it ruthlessly at home with all sorts and even at work! ?

The G&G pro or ICS guns are great, can be had cheap 2nd hand, TBH if you’re patient you could pick up a used TM M4 recoil pretty cheap too.

One mans cheap isn’t the same as another’s though, and the old no frills JGs soldier on for peanuts!

 

[alxndrhll]

I'll have a dig around and see what I can find. Granted options for convenient posting are somewhat limited at present.

Aye, I hadn't realised how much HPA stuff I'd managed to accumilate until I came to listing it all up.

I imagine it'll very much be a case of keeping my eye on the classfieds on the off chance something that takes my fancy pops up.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

hi guys - interesting thread.

I've got a stoner 63 which takes a normal v2 gearbox. I'm happy to run it till something goes wrong, but looking forward a bit I've been thinking about/ day dreaming about an HPA set up. As fun as a "wanker gun" would be, ROF isn't my primary consideration, as I suspect the bottleneck would be how quickly the box mags can feed. Accuracy and consistency are both good things, but my main consideration would be how many BB's it can shoot before something goes wrong. I'd be happy with doing - or rather - paying someone else - to fiddle about setting it all up, and point taken that its hardly "plug and play". But would an HPA set up be worth it for the sake of reliability and high volume of fire?

Thanks!!!

 

[alxndrhll]

hi guys - interesting thread.

I've got a stoner 63 which takes a normal v2 gearbox. I'm happy to run it till something goes wrong, but looking forward a bit I've been thinking about/ day dreaming about an HPA set up. As fun as a "wanker gun" would be, ROF isn't my primary consideration, as I suspect the bottleneck would be how quickly the box mags can feed. Accuracy and consistency are both good things, but my main consideration would be how many BB's it can shoot before something goes wrong. I'd be happy with doing - or rather - paying someone else - to fiddle about setting it all up, and point taken that its hardly "plug and play". But would an HPA set up be worth it for the sake of reliability and high volume of fire?

Thanks!!!

Reliability is such a weirdly subjective term within airsoft. Could I honestly say HPA is, on the whole, more 'reliable' than the various other forms of slinging BBs down a barrel? Anecdotally, for my knowledge of the system I use, yes. But I'll qualify that with the fact that I know how to maintain my kit, and a lot of it comes with the benefit that maintainence is very easy. To a point that if something breaks (9 times out of 10 it'll be an o-ring), assuming I have spares on hand, I could very quickly get it back up and running in a safe zone. I tend to define 'reliability' as 'is it likely I can use this RIF for an entire day of play?'... hence my need to qualify my thoughts.

Much like an AEG or GBB if you look after your kit it'll tend to last longer, but that's not to say typical airsoft QC can't give you differing results from the chap standing next to you with an identical maintaince routine and 'identical' parts.

I've never run a support weapon, but I imagine another large consideration would need to be efficiency when it comes to air consumption. I'd expect a support weapon to churn through much more air than your typical HPA'd AR, which means you'll need to have a proper think about the type and size of tanks you're running alongside the engine you choose to use. Again anecdotally, Polarstar's tend to be more efficient than Wolverine engines. Even more so if you go with a Fusion Engine and slap a lightning banjo in it, but that's certainly not a small expense.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

snip

thanks for the answer. Agreed - defining reliability isn't as simple as it first appears. Being able to fix a problem in the safe zone would be amazing, but I would be a bit looser and say that if something was to go wrong, I could have it fixed and back ready to play within a month. As it stands I don't have the ability (nor the inclination tbh) to open up, diagnose, and fix problems within a gearbox, and practically speaking a month turn around for airsoft repairs from a third party is...unlikely! The other option I was considering is having a second gearbox to put in whilst the OG is off for repairs...

As for the tanks yes agreed - I have seen a nifty set up involving 2x 68/4500 tanks - do you think that would be sufficient for 1 day of walk on woodland hosing / 24h milsim type set up?

Thanks again

 

[alxndrhll]

As for the tanks yes agreed - I have seen a nifty set up involving 2x 68/4500 tanks - do you think that would be sufficient for 1 day of walk on woodland hosing / 24h milsim type set up?

Obviously depends on what you wind up needing to have your PSI set to, and just how much hosing you're doing. I've personally never managed to empty a single 48/3000 in a day so I'm struggling to see how you'd be able to churn through a pair of 68/4500s. Not to say you couldn't, but I dread to think what the ammo bill would be if you were to do so ?.

I will caveat that by saying I run HPA largely due to the ease of maintenance and the ability to set my FPS and have it sit there consistently. I use the MTW because of real steel compatability. I don't make much use of many of the other 'advantages' (read as, stupidly high rate of fire) and predominantly only fire in semi unless the surrounding foliage sees fit that I need to briefly switch.

I believe @Adolf Hamster had a HPA'd MG42 at some point so he may be able to shed more light, but I could be entirely misremembering.

I'll also say I ended up doing a u-turn on my eventual conclusion at the end of this thread.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I've got a stoner 63 which takes a normal v2 gearbox. I'm happy to run it till something goes wrong, but looking forward a bit I've been thinking about/ day dreaming about an HPA set up. As fun as a "wanker gun" would be, ROF isn't my primary consideration, as I suspect the bottleneck would be how quickly the box mags can feed. Accuracy and consistency are both good things, but my main consideration would be how many BB's it can shoot before something goes wrong. I'd be happy with doing - or rather - paying someone else - to fiddle about setting it all up, and point taken that its hardly "plug and play". But would an HPA set up be worth it for the sake of reliability and high volume of fire?

unless you're running true wanker rate of fire (and tbh even if you are) if it's properly maintained (cleaned and greased every now and then) the reliability is much better than an aeg of equivalent performance.

the simpler systems like the polarstar jack are stupidly easy to take apart for servicing although it's not the best system for accuracy.

mate of mine had a fusion engine for 5+ years with zero servicing still perfectly functional.

the only reason i ever took mine apart was to do things like swap poppets/nozzles for setup reasons rather than to fix any problems.

the good thing about rate of fire is if its too fast for the box you just turn it down until the box can feed.

have a read here will give you a better idea of what's involved, fitting an engine is actually pretty easy- it's dialing it in to perfection is hard.

 

[Captain Darling]

Appreciate all the thoughts, it's been useful to hear other folks thinking aloud. I've gone through all the pro's and con's and figured out what it is I want out of the hobby from this point forward and have decided to hang up the tanks, lines, regulators and scuba tanks in favour of GBBRs. I think I'm just in a very different place with the hobby from where I was way back when, when HPA was the logical choice. I feel I've given it enough thought and consideration at this point and I keep landing on the same answer, and it's one I'm happy with. Thanks again for the input folks!

P.S. @Davegolf Y'all got any of those nubs left? ?

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Interesting topic, and I’m glad to see you’ve had the courage of your convictions to go ahead and flog all the HPA gear.  Personally I have a massive downer on the way some HPA users can take the piss when power playing with them, and suffice to say I’ve had bad experiences playing against them on sites that should know better.  Not all bad, but enough to make me groan when I spot a line on a certain type of character.
 

Anyway, what have you ended up with?  My friend Boomer got me in the MWS platform late last year, and although I was skeptical at first I completely get it now, and I’m a massive advocate.  I have a milsim game coming up where I needed an AK, and after putting a lot of time and effort into fiddling with version 3 gearboxes, I’ve just given up on AEG’s.  I think once you go GBBR, it’s very difficult to go back on the sewing machine.  I’m wondering same applies to your old HPA rigs - is it impossible to go back to AEG’s?

I love my MWS, but I’ve ended up buying a GHK AK74 and put some thought and effort into how I want it.  I’ve successfully done the devil hunter mod on the mags, which was very reasonable at $27 a mag to convert. A pair of 20oz paintball tanks and Madbull converter allow me to run liquid Co2 in the AK mags, and I’m getting 2 or 3 mags full of bb’s per fill, and the mags take 50 bb’s.  And they work fine at really cold temps. The kick and feedback from the gun are tremendous, and it seems almost as accurate as my MWS now I have a Crazyjet hop/bucking/barrel combo on it. 
 

To me this seems like the ideal middle ground between a intensely boring sewing machine and a soulless brad nail gun.  It also seems like the closest we can get in the UK to owning and enjoying an actual firearm without loads of hassle and tedious range etiquette.  And get this - I’m actually allowed to shoot it at other people at skirmishes.  
 

I know you tried messing around with 33g Co2 stocks, but have you considered gas in the mag systems?

 

[alxndrhll]

Interesting topic, and I’m glad to see you’ve had the courage of your convictions to go ahead and flog all the HPA gear.  Personally I have a massive downer on the way some HPA users can take the piss when power playing with them, and suffice to say I’ve had bad experiences playing against them on sites that should know better.  Not all bad, but enough to make me groan when I spot a line on a certain type of character.
 

Anyway, what have you ended up with?  My friend Boomer got me in the MWS platform late last year, and although I was skeptical at first I completely get it now, and I’m a massive advocate.  I have a milsim game coming up where I needed an AK, and after putting a lot of time and effort into fiddling with version 3 gearboxes, I’ve just given up on AEG’s.  I think once you go GBBR, it’s very difficult to go back on the sewing machine.  I’m wondering same applies to your old HPA rigs - is it impossible to go back to AEG’s?

I love my MWS, but I’ve ended up buying a GHK AK74 and put some thought and effort into how I want it.  I’ve successfully done the devil hunter mod on the mags, which was very reasonable at $27 a mag to convert. A pair of 20oz paintball tanks and Madbull converter allow me to run liquid Co2 in the AK mags, and I’m getting 2 or 3 mags full of bb’s per fill, and the mags take 50 bb’s.  And they work fine at really cold temps. The kick and feedback from the gun are tremendous, and it seems almost as accurate as my MWS now I have a Crazyjet hop/bucking/barrel combo on it. 
 

To me this seems like the ideal middle ground between a intensely boring sewing machine and a soulless brad nail gun.  It also seems like the closest we can get in the UK to owning and enjoying an actual firearm without loads of hassle and tedious range etiquette.  And get this - I’m actually allowed to shoot it at other people at skirmishes.  
 

I know you tried messing around with 33g Co2 stocks, but have you considered gas in the mag systems?

 I've actually ended up going back and forth a few times, to the point I'd decided to hold onto a pistol set up for HPA and my 'fanciest' MTW... at least that's as it was as of my last post in this thread. The pistol has since sold (today) and my final MTW is currently up for sale, the tipping point was the implications it had on gear.

As much as some folks seemingly mock it, I'm super in to my 'gucci gear'. I probably enjoy the gear side more than I do the RIFs, the RIFs almost exist to justify me having the pile of expensive nylon I own. I do of course thoroughly enjoy playing, but everyone has their own 'favourite part' of the hobby and the kit tends to be mine.

I owned a Marui MWS for a brief while during one of the lockdown periods (I'm up North, so that then led to high tier restrictions etc) and wound up selling it on, possibly prematurely, because I simply wasn't confident I could live with the mag capacity available to GBBRs. I definitely want another MWS at some point once everything stabilises a bit, the intent would be to have it as a slow burn project that gets taken out for a spin every now and then but not as my 'primary' RIF. I guess I'm just aware of my comfort zone and I'm not currently willing to leap out it, more gradually step out of it while having my comfort blanket (mid caps) close by.

As such I've picked up an NGRS (AR) which is being set up almost identically to my MTW (in terms of externals/attachments, what can I say, I like what I like). I've also ordered a Cyma AK74SU to throw some Zenitco parts on and just generally modernise (I'd started getting parts in for this before and didn't see it through, and I firmly regret not doing so).

Short to midlength ARs and AK74SUs (modernised or not) have been my favourite looking RIFs for as long as I can remember, so that's the route I'm running with for the time being. With the plan in future to be set up an MWS that mirrors my NGRS, and a GHK 74SU (which I plan to devil hunter, assuming I can figure out the in's and out's, it's not something I've looked into but I heard a lot about it) that mirrors my Cyma. Ultimately landing me with plenty of choice when it comes to game day as to what I want to run with, and how I want to run it... without any limitation to my kit. If I want to run just a micro chest rig and charge around like a moron, I can, without the burden of a backpack. And that was genuinely the point at which I tapped out (excuse the pun). I'm completely fine with the line, never had a huge issue with it. No more irritating than some slings can be at times, but having my kit choices dictated by having to fit a bottle and regulator on there somewhere, that was the part I landed on not wanting to deal with anymore.

HPA is great, and at the time I 'bought in to it' it ticked the boxes I wanted to tick. It's generally more reliable than other systems, and it's easier to maintain (in my opinion). It's simply a case that the boxes I want to tick are different now, and it's taken me a while to properly figure that out. I guess that ended up being the biggest take away, for anyone in a similar position that happens to read this. Just figure out what it is you  want and run with it, there's a whole lot of thoughts, opinions and advice on a whole host of things to do with this hobby... but much of it doesn't take into account exactly what you want. Figure that out and you're golden.

Apologies for the essay of a reply, and thanks very much for sharing your thoughts .