Gears keep stripping??

[ITMilsim]

Hello! I have a G&G with an elite force gearbox in it. I recently just upgraded my motor to an ASG Infinity 35000 rpm motor and it's constantly stripping my gears. The first time I had my elite force gears and it striped the sector gear and then I put in a G&G set and it stripped the bevel. I replaced that with a an elite force and it stripped the bevel too as well as one of the teeth on the pinion. I'm extremely confused on why this is happening and I would like to have some help before I go purchase more gears to break. Thanks!

Gun:

Standard Elite force Gearbox

390fps

ASG Infinity 35000 rpm motor (blue one)

11.1 lipo

Other standard compression parts.

 

[Shizbazki]

Have you shimmed the gearbox? Everytibg you change bearings or gears you must shim the gearbox otherwise the gears won't mesh properly.

There are a few youtube videos on how to do it, remember shim from the bevel and pinion gear first then move on to the spur and sector gears.

The G&G normal torque gears should be good enough on even crudely shimmed gearboxes.

 

[Samurai]

Also can be AOE.

 

[Hangtight]

Pics of the stripped gears might help figuring out what's going wrong.

 

[Hangtight]

The other option with a fast motor and 11.1v is pre engagement. If the sector is picking up the piston before it's completed its travel forward you've got fast travelling piston meeting the first tooth of the sector gear travelling in the opposite direction , at which point something is likely to break, especially if the AOE is off.  That might be the reason the first time it bust the sector. Subsequent failures may be the same problem targeting gears with insufficient mesh due to incorrect shimming.

 

[AndyGif290368]

Is no one one going to mention the potential elephant in the room of 390fps AEG?

 

[Sitting Duck]

Agreed - 11.1v on a fast/speed motor will increase the risk of PE

I recently just upgraded my motor to an ASG Infinity 35000 rpm motor and it's constantly stripping my gears

you say it is 390fps - so guess it is a m120 or so spring in there ?

is this a DMR or something ?

This should reduce the risk of PE a little more than a std 345fps gun

But still the high speed cycling will run the risk of PE

What does she shoot like on semi - does she over-run or shoots twice sometimes ?

If the spring is a m120 the overspin should be less but depends on rps and how good the box is assembled

My guess is yes and these are signs of you starting to take the pi$$ or pushing it

How many pistons are you going through or is that a steel rack piston now

normally a plastic rack or half plastic rack piston is designed to shred before spur/sector

if metal rack - there is no real weak point so something will go in the all metal drive chain

bevel's usually crap out as the tiny 10 teeth have little material on the teeth

luckily - most bevel's are fairly universal-ish in most gear sets

How fast is she shooting ???

At about 24rps on a stock std setup 345fps UK spec gun you tend to get overspin

You go much beyond this ignoring the gun talking to you then at 30rps PE will most certainly occur

I would strongly suggest you ease up a bit - run on 7.4v 25c or 30c lipo's a while

investigate a bit more inside the box - is the piston binding

this will restrict the piston returning quickly and increase the risk of PE when pushed

(though a sluggish or binding piston should reduce fps too)

Also - is elite force gearbox one of those micro switch boxes ?

if it is that micro switch won't last long on 11.1v without a mosfet

Soz - going overboard and asking too much crap but building a quick snappy gun is not so simple

I think you have a high speed motor in there now and 11.1v you will keep smashing crap out of a box

unless you have done some homework beforehand

I'd say your gun is shooting say 20rps on 7.4v

so when you go to 11.1v this goes to 30+ rps

when you get near this speed & above everything needs a lot finer tolerance if expected to last

gis some pics if possible

EDIT - just messing about with this new script on here - just can't get used to it atm

been trying to figure out stuff on my own attachments n crap in profile how to edit

ahh just gave up - then came back and pasted a pic that I didn't expect to work off my pc

(weird - don't think this would of worked before .....)

anyway - this was a screenshot of a youtube clip the other day

showing the differences that batteries can make on a US stock gun

shocking how poor the 9.6v did - think that might be a knackered one I feel

but the 50% jump or more from 7.4v to 11.1v

well yeah coz it has 3 cells now not 2 cells - duuuuhhhh

but you see how much ooooooooomphhhh gets unleashed

this is a "balanced" SHS Torque motor on a std 18:1 gear set at about 350fps

(deans & mosfet etc......)

But yeah I'm tending to agree roughly with the findings aprox

Still wonder why the lower burst lipo's perform a bit better

especially the fluctuation on the 11.1v but hey ho the overall figure is aprox

maybe each battery is a bit under/overcharge - or effeciency blah blah blah

the point is the difference in power/juice/rps etc......

Point is if you motor is not say the 25k motor like the SHS torque

then you will be running quicker and so these figures will go up

View attachment 21948

 

[Sacarathe]

[delete]

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Its an easy fix............give it to someone who knows what they are doing.

At a guess I would say:

Shimming is off 

You are suffering from pre engagement (this is why your sector died)

Your motor height is off (this is why your bevel gear keeps dying)

All this is because you have your set up completely wrong. The ASG motors are great but set up has to be perfect. You are supplying a 35k torquey motor with a very strong pinion gear (much stronger than the gears you are using) with a high power battery and poorly aligned set up.

It's basically AEG suicide.

Nothing about your build makes sense. Change to the 30k and use a 7.4v and start again but do some homework on shimming and motor height.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Also just noticed in your profile - you got a Predator

One of them picky ETU's

you would of been better off keeping the G&G box, rip out the ETU

then gone back to old school trigger system with a F-Storm mosfet

(this could be squeezed inside the G&G box itself)

speed gears + torque motor job done on 7.4v like Trigger said

That is what I have done and very pleased with results on low juice

 

[ITMilsim]

Thanks guys for the help! What should I buy and do to fix my problem? I want to keep the motor and I can degrade the spring. I'm a noob and I want to know what can work, because I want to have a reliable gun.

At the end I would like:

340-390fps

Snappy trigger response

20-25rps

Thanks!

 

[Sitting Duck]

most UK sites will only let you shoot an AEG up to 350fps

there are a couple that might go up to 370 but in general 350fps

(340 @ the mall Reading)

Unless you are going to use as DMR or in US then 350 is the figure

TBH - you should just get into twenties on 7.4v 25c with a quick motor

it was when you went to 11.1v you jumped 50% to 30's I'd say

So a simple cheap option using the quick motor is 7.4v & deans on the gun/battery

Once the gun is sorted out again - if you have buy new gears then std 18:1 or 16:1

I would not suggest 12 or 13:1 on faster motors - stuff gets warm

STAY ON 7.4v - or 11.1v if using the older motor - was it the blue or orange G&G motor ?

(if it was the std 18000rpm motor - ergh forget that - think the predator should be orange or blue motor)

The old box - if you still have it, send of to a tech perhaps as Trigger said

if that box is a quick change micro switch box then deffo don't use 11.1v - it will fry the contacts inside

I'd change spring to a m100 shs or element m105 spring to bring fps down

There are numerous tweaks/mods/tricks you can consider but a good deal of it like most stuff

You learn the hard way from screw ups I'm afraid....

THIS is a fantastic read for making $hit run faster:

http://www.airsoftsociety.com/forums/f10/legacys-guide-building-high-speed-aeg-87504/

BUT a couple of things....

1 - the faster it runs the more likely it will crap out quicker - even if done really well

(don't care who built it - the lifespan will be reduced if you go real nutz)

2 - it is 'merican, meaning they run with higher spring/fps and a faster low fps for UK needs a little more thought or settle for a more modest final rps - mid twenties is what many tend to settle for I think

(yes I tried to go for mid thirties to compensate for my poor skills but they still bust quicker I have found)

3 - they guy who wrote knows his stuff, you don't and I only know a bit from my constant screw ups

A mild modest build is best - get into low/mid twenties - even just nudging twenty is fine

try to shim it well, grease the poor thing, correct Angle Of Engagement blah blah blah

if you screw up - you learn from it

if you have the old box then get it tech'd properly perhaps

If you like cursing and blinding then read up & do it yourself like most on here

read the guide but don't quite take it all as 101% gospel as UK spec is a bit trickier to run quick at 330-350fps

 

[Hangtight]

Keep the motor, but preferably in a box somewhere safe until you really know what you're doing.

As to what you should buy and do to get it sorted...

Buy a standard motor and gears and put it back the way it was .

Do your research, ask the right questions, get a boneyard gun to practise on and learn the skills needed, acquire the right tools to do the job, learn to use those tools. Basically figure out how to make the stock stuff run perfectly before considering go fast parts. You can have the 'perfect' shopping list, but if you don't know how to put it together with the right tolerances and tweaks it'll run like an (expensive) bag of sh!t...until it stops running at all .