G&G cm16 srl battery issues

[Sitting Duck]

Gun arrived

needs 11.1v - lightly used 7.4v said no go at all

then kinda worked then stopped - voltage 8.04v

manual says 7.4v lipo or 9.6v nimah they recommend those batteries first in that order

if using 3 cell arrange wires carefully don't go above 25c coz our stuff is $hit and can't take it

(ok last bit I made up but think it will be in the reprint of owners manual)

deffo putting stubby fixed on here - GOS-V3 has f*ck all room - 11.1v will only be a 1000mah

http://www.componentshop.co.uk/11-1v-1000mah-20c-continuous-discharge-airsoft-lipo-split-pack.html

that is probably best limited capacity battery that the Predator owner ordered

seriously limited room to squeeze in a 11.1v lipo - jeeeeeez

Deffo think they put in some dumb ar$e voltage regulator in ETU say 7805 or 7806 that screws up at 8v

Think most of the ic stuff on the ETU could have run fine with a 3.3v regulator and worked fine with lower volts

The space available is poxy - looks nice but still poxy

Yeah might work ok on a fresh 8.4v but if it drops much - very little it just goes all qwirky

perfect on fresh lipo @ 8.4v it might be - get out on field - game or two gun goes pear shape

Nice one G&G - even write the manual with a 2 cell lipo recommendation

FFS - tell your guys to get their stuff together before coming up with any more brainwaves & square wheels

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I

Told

You

So

☺

 

[Lozart]

I

Told

You

So

☺

Yes, we get it. Now change the record.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

Yes, we get it. Now change the record.

Hush you, if I can have a dig at SD's G&G addiction I am taking it.
To be fair its actually a shame because at least they are trying to do something different unlike so many other manufacturers who are just churning out the same old thing.

 

[Sitting Duck]

Well I'll leave it as is internally until after Mall

Will chrono it & change stock by weekend, check she is ok

Bring her to Mall to get abused like cheap whore

Then afterwards think about ripping her open and see what is what in there

If having to run on 11.1v then certain insane neodym motors would be unwise

a decent ferrite - maybe even stock G&G - guessing its their blue motor in there

see what gears are in there - should be 18:1 unless they dropped a poxy 8 tooth bevel in

change out the piston coz G&G piston headss are not great seals blah blah blah

260mm barrel says spec - could try a 275mm tbb I think I got around with suppressor

But deffo only need a modest neodym on that juice if owners want a faster/responsive gun

(seriously if ETU's need 11.1v - you do not wanna just chuck in shs motors or lonex mofo's without more work)

I'm not bothered too much - now will get to use some block 11.1 lipo's that I got around

but other owners need to try and grab them batteries sooner rather than later

coz your options are gonna be limited on the GOS-V3 stock

Hopefully it should all work now - well until the mosfet itself goes pop

Yup others have tried new stuff and more often than not a rush new & improved idea has flopped

or not performed as well as expected...

There is no substitute of a basic tried & tested design but assembled with care & attention - Krytac TM etc....

Maybe in time stuff like this might work as expected - sometimes they are remembered more for failure than success

Anyway - ETU owners - get one of the batteries to try sooner rather than later is my advice

Oooh - ps - many thanks to LWA on having a 10% off and using my E-wallet etc....

which enabled me to get this at a bloomin' good price and see wtf all the fuss was about

Hmmmmm - couple of things I've noticed.....

Removed the stock and the mosfet unit - well it ain't that robust looking....

lots of little bits on there - nothing stands out to look like a chunky actual mosfet

the wires are 18awg and then there is a tiny 4pin connector running I presume from the ETU inside gearbox

G&G usually run both motor wires down the back of pistol grip - good job really

coz with 4 wires running to ETU unit getting a positive wire behind motor would be pushing it

Think with thinner 18awg wires & lame looking mosfet board - that is reason why 25c is absolute max rating

Though mental motor sucking loads of amps through deans n stuff will deffo make that board/wires a bit warm/melt/blow I reckon

Looking at the Kong Burst Wizard fet - 16awg silicone, bit thicker unit but shorter robust looking unit

designed to work with nigh on any type of gun/setup on ol' skool electric switch

Yeah - can see the ETU stuff coming out of this though will try to resist ripping her open further as Mall is just over a week away and got enough bits n bobs to finish on guns and around house - or Mrs Duck won't let me out to play

But yeah deffo not a heavy duty robust bit of electrics I feel to go nutz with as it is

Another thing I noticed after removing flash hider - friggin' outer barrel isn't sitting bang in center of RIS

yup it is center left-right but top-bottom it is sitting say 3 or 4mm above center ???

don't look pi$$ed & running upwards - think ris or how it all sits the outer barrel is 3/4mm above exact center

Was thinking about stubby suppressor - say 35-40mm thick by 75-100mm long

but it may look a bit odd or tight fit if not bang centered to barrel/RIS - sod it

More I think about it - ETU not a good idea & for all the 3rnd burst gimmick

Think normal switch & wired to basic fet would of been better with better wire

7.4v compatible, replace fet with programmable burst fet if user wished

7.4v lipo - more cheaper battery options to fit in stock.....

yeah - not such a super duper gimmick in my book anyway

 

[Sitting Duck]

OK - getting boring now I know but in case anybody is still interested in this crap

some pics........

Here is the so called mosfet that looks like it will crap out at any moment

and against a Kong 2 programmable burst wizard mosfet

(got an Avacado - which is not a mosfet btw but can't be ar$ed to find it)

Kong is smaller but a bit thicker - reckon they need to design supply & output at either end

rather than at same end - Kong is a bit thicker but should just fit down stock tubes

(would of been better with wires at opposite ends but means a new pcb design I guess)

Next - front barrel just a smidge off true center but got suppressor on there ok

this pic has old stock sights which I now changed to the sexier sights I think

as fitted to FireHawk & CM18's - anyway suppressor goes on there ok

Finally - Stubby Stock fitted, needs a little trim/sand as cheapo stubby is just knocked out on the cheap

No bigger than GOS-V3 (above stubby) - easily should fit in the 11.1v block lipo (12.4v aprox)

Suppressor fitted with FireHawk sights that I think are better looking and all that

Plus the std white lettering CM - Combat Machine receiver fitted to the tried & tested starter guns below

deffo a nicer receiver no question

Now me personally - the whole ETU is flawed - most of the crap is on the so called mosfet board

it does not look like it can take much juice at all - I see no mofo mosfet capable of increased load later on

on top of all that - if you set the 3rnd burst on full auto - the moment you replace battery it goes back to full auto

well it seems like it always does - maybe if you wait 5 or 10 secs but reports do confirm losing 3rnd setting

so you gotta reprogram again - not a biggy but

other better units like Kong and probably Gate BTC etc... hold all the settings provided you wait 5 secs after battery install

(you program these super duper mofo's by trigger pulls in first 5 secs - bit of headache at first but many many options available)

The FFR 2 @ £155 is a nice buy let down by the one thing G&G were trying to promote - ETU

My own personal opinion is forget this ETU crap - really

put in a normal box but wire in some decent wire like Alpha Eco or silver wire

fit a "normal" mosfet and "normal" switch like the 300 BOT

then people can run guns on compact 7.4v or wtf they want

they can easily change out the weak std fet in there to a better fet if they wish

Heck - do AoE, fit a better piston head/seals/nozzle

(weird thing is G&G do o-ring nozzle spares - so wtf don't ya fit one ffs)

at least steel bushings under the gears - bronzey or bearings on top

Then people won't have to mess about sorting out stuff properly later ffs

bung on some more dosh of course but set against dumb ar$e ETU costs coz its crap

Then you would recover some consumer confidence which tbh is starting to drop lately

Receiver, gun design - yeah ok the v3 stock looks nice I guess - brilliant pricing also

easily could fit 275mm in there - maybe I will drop in a 300mm with suppressor

(would of liked a tiny stubby Swiss Arms one @ about 65mm length but sod it for now)

Yeah the sights - I think the other flip sights are better but just my take on the finishing touches

Yeah - just drop the ETU crap it sucks I'm afraid

even with the 11.1v - 12.4v I did have one weird hissy fit this morning

(the gun/etu not me, I'm always having meltdowns)

anyway - that is my gun - cheers LWA and half cheers to G&G for making a nice looking gun

(shame it sucks a bit on the electrics still)

Hope with a beefier 11.1v lipo the owners of G&G ETU guns have less headaches

hope so but only in time we shall see how sturdy this crap is

Me - I'm going back to ol' skool after the Mall I think

 

[Thunder 119]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for your feedbacks.

May we have which airsoft shop you purchased this rifle?

Since its the cut-off point on MOSFET/ETU is higher than 7.4V Li-po/8.4V/9.6V Ni-Mh, which caused this situation. We have fixed this problem and the new MOSFET/ETU for 8.4V/9.6V Ni-Mh will be advised to our UK dealers in this week for the replacement on all ETU models which had been sold out.

Please let me know which airsoft shop you purchased CM16 SRL from, then I could contact with our dealer about this issue.

Let me know if any question.

Sincerely.

Received this from g&g

 

[Sitting Duck]

Just seems like even with the new revised mosfet unit in there you will never really get gun 101% working on a 7.4v lipo

G&G must know who the f*ck the main UK Retailers they sell to, the gun serial blah blah blah against date they stated using moody units

Even with a working original unit, or the new improved/fixed unit with lower voltage requirements - still say just use 11.1v

Lozart was right (again)

It does seem to need and run better on more juice - it has a lame motor so it won't be ultra mental

around 20rps is ok for many on here

 

[Pinathon]

Hey SD

Can you tell me if the burst wizard or any of the gate fets are a direct replacement for the g&g Fet on the g&g Sr series?

I assume they are, but do you know what the 4 wires coming from the etu are for? I assume -\+ for 2 of them but what are the extra 2?

Also, if they are needed do you know where I would need to wire them to on a diff fet?

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Sitting Duck]

Hey SD

Can you tell me if the burst wizard or any of the gate fets are a direct replacement for the g&g Fet on the g&g Sr series?

I assume they are, but do you know what the 4 wires coming from the etu are for? I assume -\+ for 2 of them but what are the extra 2?

Also, if they are needed do you know where I would need to wire them to on a diff fet?

Thanks

Andrew

nope - in a word....

read these essays for more info....

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/29958-new-member-g-g-cm16-predator-firing-issue/

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/30215-single-fire-lock-up/

the last one explains the differences between BTC Spectre or ACSU that fit inside box
and Gate or Kong Burst that in effect guess the burst settings - adjustable but still guess or timings set on unit
Gate/Kong will need a normal trigger switch and perhaps normal selector plate to turn it back to normal trigger unit

The ETU unit inside the gearbox is also available as drop in replacement for other CM machines as a kit for about £40 inc burst unit
But what the ETU unit has is 4 wires coming off it back to burst unit in stock tube
yes it is wired or coloured as 2 black and 2 red wires but tbh I am not sure of the pinouts of them without a test meter

I am guessing - really guessing in fact and please do NOT take this at all coz I'm probably wrong.....
There are 3 micro switches on the unit -
trigger switch for firing
cut off lever switch to indicate sector position on semi/burst
plus a tiny 3rd micro switch behind selector plate to indicate if on full auto or not for burst mode in auto

I would of assumed that the layout of the wires would of been
1 x supply/posi signal
then 3 wires from 3 switches going live/high returning to unit so it knows the exact on/off state of each switch

But due to colours - 2 sets of red/black this could also be 2 main circuits
main trigger circuit on/off - 1 set
then cut off & selector set up as a 2 way switch to cancel each other out

But my hunch and it is only a hunch and at best is a very wild guess is that the wires to me sound like first guess:
1 supply wires and 3 signal wires returning to unit

BUT - I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE SO DON'T FFS TAKE THIS AS EVEN A HALF GUESS !!!!
I could find out even without taking the box apart by probing the unit & connector's state as gears/trigger operate
but atm not bothered coz I'm trying to see if she can handle a bit more power with a neodym motor/rewire
She is in total bits atm, bronzey bushings out, AoE corrected but deliberating piston/piston head setup and rewire etc....

Now it might have been possible to convert the G&G burst/mosfet unit to a BTC Chimera unit with some careful studying
as G&G seem to have used or copied a similar thing to the Chimera in having switch unit inside and seperate mosfet unit
with data/signal wires running back to Chimera so to speak.....
But price/stock and tbh the G&G micro switches aren't exactly that robust or heavy duty looking either.....

So if you wish to swap out the burst/mosfet pcb from G&G to another type then it is very likely you will be going back
to conventional trigger switch/trolley system getting knock out by cut off lever etc.... on the traditional setup we are used to
Which entails normal switch + Gate/Kong mosfets and forget the 4 signal wires
They won't respond to the other 3 wires - they only have 1 signal wire to turn on/off the mosfet

Now it might but I really really doubt it, have a circuit inside ETU that toggles the signal wire from trigger switch on/off
but if that was the case then you wouldn't really have 4 wires - extra from other switches states going back to mosfet unit

So it seems it is a like it or lump it scenario, unless you might be able to use a Chimera or other mosfet board like it
or go back to old school setup in the end for Gate/Kong type prog burst mosfets

I'm coming around to the idea that G&G tried to use - the burst and way even single or auto operates means guns parks ok
no more cut off lever stuck in dead zone & not firing - so yeah I see it as a clever idea of reducing or even eliminating my gun won't fire

Unfortunately though I admit it isn't as bad as I first thought and all that
The unit and its build quality & ever changing recommended battery suggestions from G&G and owners left with a gun only working on max charge
Then as battery drops on 9.6v it stops working - jeez they should of got this reliability problem sorted way before releasing more guns with ETU

Gun runs fine on 11.1v but stock is limited for battery options
Mine is in bits - blew a fuse with a neodym motor in there so am gonna re-do it and rewire it
may have to add solder to main power tracks on pcb unit to allow more juice to flow through it
but I understand the risks of pushing the unit and very likely the actual mosfet itself may blow after all this and will go back to old school trigger if it does
G&G mosfet units were never built to handle high current or juice often crapping out on the TopTech guns in the past
Alas if you build a mosfet you gotta use genuine 3034 type mosfets that can handle switch large amps - 3034 goes up to crazy stuff
buying cheap snide copies off fleabay simply means under stress them clones will just blow when you spam on semi a lot
and I think G&G have gone for cost savings where ever they can - but we shall see if I don't kill it before its back together

So - if you are looking to replace the unit for a Gate/Kong or even a basic 3034 mosfet or F-Storm mosfet
you will have to replace the trigger switch/selector plate back to a normal v2 type as in other G&G's etc....

Avacado burst wizard is not a mosfet like the Kong type - looks like it might be but Avacado provide no trigger contact protection
so on higher juice the contacts will arc/burn out over time - don't think of getting an avacado unit - they are just a gimmick imho

Hope some of this bollox helps

 

[Pinathon]

Hey SD

That's a great reply.

I bought a gc16 Sr-cqb from zero-one recently.

I haven't seen it or held it yet as I actually live in Australia.

Airsoft is illegal here and being an expat I only get to play for a few weeks every couple of years when go home to the U.K. to visit my parents and friends.

I read heaps of reviews on the g&g which were all good and hence why I ended up with it.

I'm just slightly concerned as the gc16 model comes with the neo motor as standard and if I can't run it on 7.4v lipo because they are not powerful enough and I can't run it on 11.1v lipo because it pops fuses then I may have a bit of problem.

Thanks again for the comprehensive reply.

Andrew

 

[Sitting Duck]

I'm just slightly concerned as the gc16 model comes with the neo motor as standard and if I can't run it on 7.4v lipo because they are not powerful enough and I can't run it on 11.1v lipo because it pops fuses then I may have a bit of problem.

I would be amazed if they installed a neodym motor in there....

I don't own all G&G's but most of the Combat Machines

And seen a few Top Tech's that come with a Blue stickered Powerful Motor but it is a ferrite motor not neodym

There are a couple of others like a red stickered Powerful Motor

http://www.evike.com/products/29935/

but not seen one myself to confirm if that might be a neodym but Blue Sticker is deffo lame ferrite - better than crap stock 18k one but still ferrite

also there is this one I have never seen before:

Also a review of the usual 2 most common motors - stock & blue plus a new type that has started to appear in some Hogs I'm lead to think:

Only way to know what they chuck in is to remove the base of pistol grip and see for yourself

imho G&G do chuck in different stuff according to stock levels - people say they always use hex m3 bolts now on gearbox screws

nope I have said I have had some that still use phillips head screws - nope they say

well my FFR 2 had phillips screws on the gearbox so I maintain they do use what is available if out of stock of stuff

or they have 2 assembly lines coz not all G&G CM v2 boxes have the usual 8mm bronzey bushings

as had 1 or 2 recent-ish ones that had 8mm bearings in there instead of the bronzey bushings

BUT - I would be nigh on amazed if G&G were chucking in decent neodym motors

as so far with the lower end they were all ferrites

Ferrite (black) magnets are weaker than neodym magnets (silver/chrome)

look at the motor - near the shaft, inside the motor you will be able to see colour of magnets

bet the motor will have black ferrite magnets - 98% sure of that

Ferrites lack speed and grunt of stronger neodym motors

often neodym can be up to 50% stronger and faster than ferrite motors

so roughly speaking running a ferrite on 11.1v is about the same as running a neodym on 7.4v

This is aprox rough guide - all motors will vary - some faster stronger than others as G&G video will show

The fuse blew in my FFR2 coz I started to take the pi$$ on poor stock wiring 18awg which is not designed for neodym

if I put in a blue powerful motor I am 99.999999% certain it would of been fine

I was using a JG Chaoli neodym motor which is strong but not absolutely mental

Neodym motors draw more juice as they spin with much greater torque and speed

So fuse blew due to extra current drawn and quite likely motor height being out and straining on box/bevel gear

I didn't get many shots off before she blew the fuse - but think it was a bit of both or motor is shorting

Some Frankentorque insane motors pulling crazy springs will drain even large lipo's very quickly

There is a balance between going insane and moderate specs of neodym motors to save battery power

A decent cheap all rounder is a shs torque BUT DO NOT INSTALL ONE IN ETU's coz it will take the pi$$

So don't think the gun will blow fuses on 11.1v

only if you start taking the pi$$ or messing with it trying to run stronger neodym's etc...

on 11.1v you should get 20rps on ferrite which is about same as neodym on 7.4v

running neodym on 11.1v could place the gun up at near 30rps which is dangerous to a stock gun

at that speed she will double fire and likely get close to Pre Engagement - piston getting stripped coz running too fast

modifications need to made and Angle of Engagement before the piston's initial pick up gear - large lug at back

if pushed at higher speeds and not AoE corrected the pick up tooth will just snap off very quickly

So as long as you keep guns at up to 20rps you should be ok for a while imho

above that and you will need to service and tweak gearbox a little

keep it on stock black ferrite motor and 11.1v and it will be fine I reckon

Don't worry - 11.1v is fine on stock ETU G&G as it is

note ETU - ordinary G&G's without a mosfet I would only go up to a max of 9.6v to reduce trigger contacts arcing

I'm just taking the pi$$ atm and seeing how far stuff can be pushed and learning by my mistakes

if you keep gun at a sensible level you will be fine but would say you may need 11.1v rather than 7.4v

it will be a bit snappier but at 20rps I feel it will ok and at least it will work properly

 

[Pinathon]

Ah ok

I was just going by the marketing stuff put out on a number of websites

These are a couple of references to the ifrit 25000 rpm neo motor being fitted to all the gc models.

https://m.facebook.com/NewEnglandAirsoftTactical/posts/468522993348679

http://www.airsoftexcellence.com/store/p382/G%26G_Armament_GC16_SR-CQB

Not sure how accurate they are (but being American sites, I would guess they would be or else it would be a free for all on lawsuits!) as I haven't had a look in mine...will do next Saturday tho.

Guess il just have to suck it and see when I get back to the uk next Saturday.

Il post up my finding then.

Thanks again for your help

Andrew

 

[Sitting Duck]

soz wrong video clip and this was what I meant/watched a while back

in english and dunno what the french bloke was using to test them motors probably 8.4/9.6v

the link above I think is American/English and uses 11.1v I think

not much improvement in orange new motor than blue ferrite

but french video shows shs torque much faster/stronger

do not use neodym motor though and you will be fine

 

[Sitting Duck]

To be honest if that orange 25k motor is neodym

then it is another area that G&G suck at making

the shs torque kicks its ar$e and is under £30

and you can get motors for about that price that are even crazier but so strong they wreck most guns quickly

but yeah G&G orange got its ar$e kicked by shs in the french tests

though tbh shs pulling 17rps and stock G&G pulling 14 equates to only a 20% improvement ???

I stand by my 33% - well at least 30% so I'm going out on a limb here and say

either battery was max charge on stock G&G and it was a very good one

(some motors spin like there is no magnetic field at all & others you can feel mild resistance turning pinion by hand)

and the SHS torque was a lame one with reduced juice - trust me you can't turn neodym motors by hand as easy as ferrites

And really crazy stuff was DSG HC05 went from 27rps on blue ferrite to just over 40rps on mental neodym

so yes that crazy neodym was ripping 50% more than a blue ferrite - which tbh isn't a bad ferrite in french tests

So yeah a bit weird the shs torque only showed about 20-21% increase over 18k stock G&G - but still stronger than G&G's neo

 

[Pinathon]

That's awesome.

Thanks so much for your help SD.

After I'd bought my Sr I found this thread...damn it.

I Was getting concerned that I'd have to dust off my 10+ year old ca m15a4 cqb again!

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Sitting Duck]

honestly it is just the pcb that don't work on lower juice like it should

alas a strong 9.6v or a small 11.1v lipo seems to be way to go

luckily G&G use lame motors so 11.1v 20c lipo's don't make gun run too crazy

 

[Pinathon]

All good,

il just get a couple of 11.1v lipos from component shop referenced in one of the other posts and see how I go.

Once again thanks for all your help, bloody invaluable.

Andrew

 

[Smouke]

Hey guys, first of all i want to say sorry for my english, this is not my first language.

I bought a factory new GC16 SR-L 2 days ago and after a little test it just stop working. So i reconnect the battery and it start working, for a while. Then again and again.

On the mosfet is flashing red LED.

I just tried to charge battery, first mag without a problem, but after 400+BB it starts stoping again.

I have a 9,6 nimh battery 1600mah http://airsoftshop.cz/product_info.php/cPath/404_68_71_133/products_id/4156/language/EN

Motor is orange, i think 25000 ifrit as you say https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3cmfH4utyCjUHNhV0VpQzJEQnc

So according to you, should i buy a 11,1V lipo or use waranty ?

Now i can return this gun without a reason for 14 days.

 

[Sitting Duck]

So according to you, should i buy a 11,1V lipo or use waranty ?

Now i can return this gun without a reason for 14 days.

tough question to answer

think you will need 11.1v for better operation

or

return it which is a shame coz it is a nice gun for the money

A real shame that the thing that was supposed to make this gun stand out - ETU system

is in the end making it stand out for all the wrong reasons - it often just doesn't want to work when you expect it to on the field

Sorry I can't answer the question easily....

£200 SR range or £150 FFR A2 like I got cheap - hmm tough question to answer....

£250+ Predator or Wild Hog gun - likely suggest returning it and get a Krytac