First Aid Kits

[Cannonfodder]

While the BeeGees “Stayin’ alive” is the right rhythm so is Queen’s “Another one bites the dust” - just sing it in your head ?

From what I was told anything with 100 - 120 bpm is good, here's a few other suggestions 

 

[Emergencychimps]

Thought this was of some relevance. 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/how-you-can-help/how-to-save-a-life/how-to-do-cpr/learn-cpr-in-15-minutes

Online CPR training for something we are most likely to experience. 

 

[hunter511]

One thing I would have found really helpful last time I had to do anything first aid adjacent (dog walker witha really messed up ankle in a quite difficult to reach area) space blankets...... wrong weather + shock and someones potentially gonna be in a very bad place much quicker than you might think. I mean clearly not as quick as if they're squirting but.......

 

[SheriffHD]

While FREC guidelines are just compressions, but a BVM or O2 (15L/m) are helpful ??

While the BeeGees “Stayin’ alive” is the right rhythm so is Queen’s “Another one bites the dust” - just sing it in your head ?

The training I was given stated that there's enough oxygen in the blood to not need to give rescue breaths during CPR and that you're better continuing with compressions.

As for the song......baby shark do do do 

 

[Tiercel]

Nobody does mouth to mouth because its disgusting  That's the main reason they've tried encouraging laypeople to go compression only, its better than nothing and you have better luck convincing them to do it. 

Usually youll have a lovely pool of saliva and other assorted fluids at the back of the mouth to deal with, which leak everywhere, and probably a load of vomit too, and some blood if youre doing those compressions hard enough. No way Im putting my mouth anywhere near that, even with one of those little plastic sheet mouth shield things. I would maybe, MAYBE consider it if it were one of my nearest and dearest, but on a stranger? Absolutely no chance.

As for the aspirin debate, ideally you want dispersable that'll dissolve on you tongue and absorbed directly via buccal/sub lingual route. Unless theyre deathly allergic to it, the benefit greatly outweighs any risk. None of this nonsense about prescribing or not knowing their history or anything like that. Just ask them  "Got chest pain and you look like a grey, pale, sweaty mess, feel like shit? Fancy an aspirin just in case, not allergic are you?" and if theyre not in a position to answer you, dont go sticking things in their mouth. Same as the fling you met at the pub  

 

[gavinkempsell]

As for the song......baby shark do do do

No good, I tried this & got a slap after the first 15 compressions.

 

[Tommikka]

Here’s a drift, which I’ll deliberately make to target those of you who are professionals in this area —— because you might have the ability to redirect out of date elements, and could help with training materials …….

(Of course he’s also taking donations to build the main kits)

A fellow by the name of witzy has been doing a number of things to support Ukraine, and is currently putting together IFAK kits for combatants etc

He is both a paintballer and airsofter, as player and organiser

If you do Facebook the following videos should come up, if anyone is able to help with expired surpluses he can me messaged directly on his profile 

https://www.facebook.com/stephen.witts.5

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02a3r4waeUthKGP8s9QnbeK43XEEqHDECNJT2gDnamejLjns95DMUQxeUBtN78ZNX8l&id=1169423901

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0zEekY57jEGhFaa5a83FG6q7nNzbFCNqTY17qjaHASoVX57gsFyKHtGVKCLbShS1hl&id=1169423901

Even if not, his run through of the contents give some of the uses of the elements of a ‘more serious’ first aid kit

For our kinds of use leave out what you don’t know what to do with and add the ‘lesser’ basics of plasters, liquid plasters, tape,  creams, pills appropriate to you such as allergy, aches & pains etc

Hopefully as a player we just need something to stop a scratch, graze, cut, pyro burn from ending the day, and be able to ease something worse until others turn up

View attachment 114014

 

[Gryph]

I'm a response bobby, so I carry a first aid pouch in my rucksack when I'm out and about, and have a repro BFG micro trauma kit on my belt. I've also got a little boo boo pouch that lives in my trouser pocket and definitely sees more use than the FAK. Boo boo kit has varying types of drugs (all legal, I swear), plasters and some 3M tape. 
I think that everyone should carry a small kit for whingeries - you never know when you need a plaster and you look like a bit of a dick if everyone has bandages and CATs, but no one has a plaster.

As for the CPR debate, current training in my force is 30 compressions and 2 breaths, but we carry the full face seals so I don't have to smooch the casualty. With that being said, our first aid training upsets people because there's some techiniques we're taught that people don't like (i.e. removing crash helmets)

 

[SheriffHD]

I'm a response bobby, so I carry a first aid pouch in my rucksack when I'm out and about, and have a repro BFG micro trauma kit on my belt. I've also got a little boo boo pouch that lives in my trouser pocket and definitely sees more use than the FAK. Boo boo kit has varying types of drugs (all legal, I swear), plasters and some 3M tape. 
I think that everyone should carry a small kit for whingeries - you never know when you need a plaster and you look like a bit of a dick if everyone has bandages and CATs, but no one has a plaster.

As for the CPR debate, current training in my force is 30 compressions and 2 breaths, but we carry the full face seals so I don't have to smooch the casualty. With that being said, our first aid training upsets people because there's some techiniques we're taught that people don't like (i.e. removing crash helmets)

Oddly enough - our resus team state not to bother with the breaths being that there's enough residual o2 in the blood stream to sustain and ultimately keeping blood flow is the main priority, but then again our training is based on the fact we have a crash bag with air delivery options available and we have to wear ffp3 masks which prevents us being able to mouth to mouth anyway.

 

[pedro]

a single ffd which i hope i never have to use in game and basic pain meds like ibuprofen and co-codamol also antihistamine, loperomide, 

i also carry sachets of electrolyte replacement like dioralyte or the supermarket equivalent, this gets used A LOT

clean water for wound cleaning or if safe to do so eye wash, also for drinking with or without the electrolyte 

i dont carry plasters any longer cos really, they just wernt getting used and anything that you might use a small plaster on can usually just be ignored ime

as others have said, training is the key here, have some and know your limits.

never been a medical professional but had a few in the family and close mates etc and they would remind me of an unfortunate saying in hospital emergency departments

"first aiders kill people"

so whenever i have been required to offer aid to someone i always kept that in mind 

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

In my view, on game days no need for anything more than a couple of plasters and a wide roll of zinc oxide/fabric tape in the safezone for those annoying cuts and grazes; anything more major (field dressings/eye washes etc) should be able to be supplied by the first aid kits legally required to be held by the site.

Kits for cars, walking, life etc are another thing - i personally have medical scissors, a large field dressing + tourniquet in each car;  and a personal first aid kit for weekends in the woods, walking etc with the above+ more dressings (tip - eye pads are great for cut fingers), fabric tape, saline for eyes, quick clot packing tape, and a resuscitation mouth seal thingy to make vom covered mouths more palatable....

never been a medical professional but had a few in the family and close mates etc and they would remind me of an unfortunate saying in hospital emergency departments

"first aiders kill people"

so whenever i have been required to offer aid to someone i always kept that in mind 

I'm afraid In my view this is nonsense. You should always always have a go, and do what you think will help, unless there is someone better experienced/qualified available immediately to take over. The law will protect you (in this country) if you have done your best and what a reasonable person would have done. We aren't in America, where things might, sadly, turn out rather differently.

I for one would find it a struggle to maintain any degree of self respect if i passed someone by that needed help just because i was afraid of a theoretical legal action from aggrieved relatives. I'm sure the (UK) statistics of success of such actions of that nature will back the point up.

 

[pedro]

situation 1, im the patient.  whilst working on a building site ive been struck on the head by a 21 foot scaffold pole and i am walking, talking and holding a small bandage to the 2 inch gash in my forehead to stem the blood.

site manager comes running across with the first aid kit and proceeds to take out a very long bandage, i ask him what he intends to do with that and he says "im going to bind your head to stop the blood" 

i stopped him because i was concerned if he continued and i had a fractured skull he might make things worse, ambulance crew concurred.

situation 2. its about 3 am on the m6 southbound and a motorcyclist has collided with a bridge support at high speed. he is an absolute mess and parts of his bike are strewn over a wide area. its me and one other driver that have stopped to help and when the patient is slipping in and out of consciousness and mumbling stuff the other driver says we should take his helmet off so we can hear him more clearly. i made sure that didnt happen.

i will always stop and give first aid/assistance. 1 because its morally the right thing to do and 2 because often there isnt anyone else present who can manage the situation safely and efficiantly. once the pros turn up i do my handover and go on my way. still never knew what happend to the motorcyclist on the m6, i hope he made it. 

 

[hunter511]

1 good thing for this post. Pushing to get my level 3 first aid quals renewed at work

 

[MrTea]

situation 2. its about 3 am on the m6 southbound and a motorcyclist has collided with a bridge support at high speed. he is an absolute mess and parts of his bike are strewn over a wide area. its me and one other driver that have stopped to help and when the patient is slipping in and out of consciousness and mumbling stuff the other driver says we should take his helmet off so we can hear him more clearly. i made sure that didnt happen.

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

 

[THE CHIEF]

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

Ha! I would assume the training is still the same with people practicing a log roll if absolutely necessary. 

Basic first aid kit for game days with a couple of personal augmentations. Like some Mr Bump plasters for people particularly being a pussy.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

I was taught that the only reason remove a lid is if it's 100% necessary and the patent will die if you don't. Eg they're choking on their tongue 

 

[Jacob Wright]

So once again I guess the take away point here is - don't do something you're not trained and competent in, otherwise try and do the basics to the best of your ability (plasters, reassurance, get help, get out of the way).

 

[The_Lord_Poncho]

So once again I guess the take away point here is - don't do something you're not trained and competent in, otherwise try and do the basics to the best of your ability (plasters, reassurance, get help, get out of the way).

People should absolutely have the confidence to crack on with chest compressions without formal training, similarly, maintaining an airway. With an unresponsive casualty, to stand by due to a lack of confidence may hasten their death/increase the likelihood that they end up with severe brain injury through oxygen starvation. To have a go and do you best may just mean that they are in a state that when professional/qualified/equipped care turns up, they can do something useful.

Of course the gold standard is to get some training, and frankly i find it astonishing how few people do  - especially when the overwhelming likelihood is that it is a family member or a good mate that is the person in desperate need for first aid from you.

Re. one the the above points - agree that motorcycle helmets should be removed - but only if essential to perform immediately necessary first aid - e.g. to maintain an airway and/or to perform CPR. In the example above, if the person is still talking then it wouldn't be necessary to remove the helmet. There is a correct way to do so in order to minimise neck/spinal movement.

The trick is to work down the priorities of first aid - Airway, Breathing, Circulation (yes i know its more nuanced than that, but for the purpose of this thread...!) i.e. - if the airway is blocked  - you MUST do something about it (i.e. clear it, get the casualty into a position where it is cleared and unobstructed). If they are not breathing/oxygenated blood getting to the brain you MUST do something about it (i.e. chest compressions + mouth to mouth if you are comfortable/able). If there is a catastrophic (i.e. arterial) bleed, you MUST do something about it (i.e. direct or indirect compression). There are right and wrong ways of going about these actions, as well as ways which would minimise the likelihood for causing secondary long term complications/injuries, but everyone must still have a go after first calling for help -  unless there is someone better able with you that can perform those immediate actions more effectively. 

Example, a motorcyclist is unconscious and unresponsive. After ascertaining this, you remove his helmet in order to open up his airway and perform CPR. In the process, it later turns out that you have exacerbated a spinal injury and the person is paralysed. He is, however, alive and with a functioning mental state - you having maintained a supply of oxygenated blood to his brain until the ambulance arrived equipped with a defib etc. The alternative scenario, you look on, paralysed into inaction as you are concerned about something you read on the internet about never removing a motorcyclists helmet/a nonsense sticker on the helmet itself stating the same thing; the person is pronounced dead at the scene when medical care does turn up, and you spend the rest of your life wondering whether you could have made a difference for that bloke and his family!

Appreciate that this is all a little emotive and heavy a subject, but i do think it is rather important. Perfect excuse for people to book themselves onto a first aid course/get your workplace to do so at their expense!

 

[Gryph]

Policy where I work is that motorcycle helmets need to be removed in every collision so that you can open airways etc... There is a method to this that I won't get in to for berevity. 
The summary of the reasoning is that if you somehow kill them by removing the helmet, then chances are they'll have been dead regardless and it's better to do something to help, than stand and let someone die. Primary function of a bobby is preservation of life which is pretty hard to do if you can't clear someone's airways.

I'm sort of reiterating what Poncho's said above there though.

Oddly enough - our resus team state not to bother with the breaths being that there's enough residual o2 in the blood stream to sustain and ultimately keeping blood flow is the main priority, but then again our training is based on the fact we have a crash bag with air delivery options available and we have to wear ffp3 masks which prevents us being able to mouth to mouth anyway.

That's totally fair, I suppose it's horses for courses at the end of the day, our first aid training isn't as good as yours because it's not our primary function (I do think that there should be a bigger focus on it though, personally) and you guys have much better kit for saving lives.

Our first aid kits are pretty shocking to be honest with you, we've only recently had our cars issued with AEDs and CATs!