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Firearm ban

And good on them! Get a hobby, find a job, just not one that involves replica firearms!!

As for it being narrow minded: no, again, there's a reason why people convicted for certain crimes can not own firearms - just as people convicted for certain crimes can not work in close approximation to children. As for your last sentence, those are the only two crimes you deem unforgivable? Anyway, we are getting hugely sidetracked.
Who said anything about letting a ex con own a firearm. We are talking about airsoft guns which isnt a real firearm. Your statement said that there isnt a scenario where a convicted criminal should be allowed to own or handle a rif. Even if they have committed an offence such as armed robbery doesnt mean that they should be banned from playing airsoft, its a game and a sport.Someone who has been convicted of assault doesn't get banned from going to a boxing gym or even boxing in competitions.

I am not an ex con before you assume that I have just lived enough life to know that you cant assume someone is totally irresponsible or unable to act properly because they made a mistake.

A bit of common sense is all that is needed in the laws.

 
Who said anything about letting a ex con own a firearm. We are talking about airsoft guns which isnt a real firearm. Your statement said that there isnt a scenario where a convicted criminal should be allowed to own or handle a rif. Even if they have committed an offence such as armed robbery doesnt mean that they should be banned from playing airsoft, its a game and a sport.

Someone who has been convicted of assault doesn't get banned from going to a boxing gym or even boxing in competitions.

I am not an ex con before you assume that I have just lived enough life to know that you cant assume someone is totally irresponsible or unable to act properly because they made a mistake.

A bit of common sense is all that is needed in the laws.
Oh you do, do you?

If I had it my way, criminals evicted of assault would not be allowed to learn how to more effectively hurt people. I have just lived enough life to know that a lot of criminals does just this, reoffend, get caught, let out again and so it goes.

It is a game and a sport, but it does utilise items that can and are being used in criminal activity, hence who can participate should be limited.

As for common sense in laws.. I really do not see what you are hinting at, but common sense does sadly not apply in English laws, nor is it possible with the way the legal system works in England.

I do not think this discussion can further progress I can not see your point of view and you can clearly not see mine. I suggest we leave it at that.

 
Ok so this thread was never answered specifically and probably never will be, i'll explain why now having done some info dredging for another thread on this here forum.

It looks like if the OPs friend picks up a firearm with his ban then he will be contravening Section 21 of the Firearms Act 1968: Possession of firearms by persons previously convicted of crime.

This states that anyone sentenced to any form of custodial sentence of three years or more has an automatic firearms ban for life, if he has served 3 months or more but less than 3 years then he is banned from any firearm for 5 years from the date he is released.

It can done Trial by Either Way (TEW) so if summary only, max sentence 6 months, if indictable then max is 5 years

See below CPS guidance

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_21_firearms_act/

HOWEVER there is a bullet point here which says: VCRA provisions re minimum terms in certain circumstances DO NOT apply to this offence but leaves it at that.

THEN the Sentencing Guidelines finally makes mention of imitation firearms!

So in conclusion, contrary to my first post here your friend is indeed banned from the world of Airsoft as it appears that Section 21 of the Firearm Act 1968 which regards the banning of persons ever owning or using a firearm due to previous conviction also includes imitation firearms as a firearm.

I mentioned why it won't be specifically answered though, because UK Law works on tested cases and as to date (via google search), no one has been convicted of having a firearms ban and playing a lawful game of Airsoft.

So the advice from all firearms licencing officers were correct and if he wished to err on the side of caution he will never touch anything (assuming he has had a more than 3 year sentence) resembling a firearm.

However the real world are shades of grey, not black and white law books.

If he did go to a legit Airsoft site, borrowed a gun from the site or friend, enjoyed, behaved himself then went home quietly then who's to know ;) chances are you will find that some players at most Airsoft Sites are police officers themselves (may or may not be firearms officer but just enjoy the sport). As far as they would be aware he is a legit Airsoft Player and they are unlikely to know his personal background unless he starts shouting it out loud or does something really silly.

End of the day he is an adult who can make his own decisions, its only if he is caught (doing something silly whilst playing airsoft).

 
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I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort. So basically anything that looks like a gun weather real or not you can’t have, it’s a joke, if I held a water gun it’s classed as an imitation it’s stupid 

 
I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort. So basically anything that looks like a gun weather real or not you can’t have, it’s a joke, if I held a water gun it’s classed as an imitation it’s stupid 
The obvious response is that you shouldn’t have committed the crime in the first place

 
I have a life time firearms ban and it state you can’t own or possess any firearm or imitation firearm of any sort.


Out of interest, do you know the legal basis for that?  Firearms Act 1968 S21 prohibits possession of firearms, not imitations.  On a quick scan of BAILII (this is not legal advice!), I can't see case law where imitations have fallen foul of that.

To be crystal clear, I am not advocating or encouraging you to try your luck.  This is an academic question.

 
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I worked with a fella who was convicted of a firearms offence many years before I knew him.

He couldn't enter my home due to the nature of my hobbies being RIFs and airguns.

He couldn't touch, be in proximity to them nor people with them nor houses that home them... just a big NO to every aspect of anything gun-like.

Marked for life, no getting round it. Get caught and it's "bye-bye"... it's unfortunate but you reap what you sow.

A ban for life is exactly that.

 
Again, do you know the statutory basis for that, and the details?

 
Section 21 of firearms legistaion covers convictions and firearms bans.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/21

This bans for life or for 5 years from release depending on the conviction, but addresses only firearms and ammunition.  (Any type of firearm)

It doesn’t mention “anything that looks like a firearm”, or water pistols

Section 5 defines firearms

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/5

Under section 57A an airsoft gun is not a firearm (this is to allow it to be treated as an imitation [IF or RIF] in the VCRA) ... provided it is within the power ratings

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/57A

With a general look I cannot see anything in the VCRA about a ban on RIFs/IFs to former convicts .... but there’s a lot of areas of that act, and along with drinking banning orders searches of ‘conviction’, ‘convicted’, ‘ban’ etc come up with a lot of results to look through, and  ‘sentenced’ etc has no results.

If correct then unless restrictions on release included other factors then airsoft could be exempt from the lifetime / 5 year restrictions.  But it probably isn’t worth gambling your freedom on a technicality and seeing if a court will agree.

Airguns are firearms under the act.

A paintball gun is a firearm - “a low powered air weapon that discharges frangible ammunition” and falls in and out of various parts of legislation.  

However - before using people on the internet for advice and subsequently finding yourself back in prison for possessing a firearm get some proper clarification from your lawyer/probation officer/local police etc

 
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It doesn’t mention “anything that looks like a firearm”, or water pistols


Exactly.  Not that I'd want to wind up anyone who's done something worthy of at least 3 years incarceration, but I am wondering if these are tales that grow in the telling.

 
Exactly.  Not that I'd want to wind up anyone who's done something worthy of at least 3 years incarceration, but I am wondering if these are tales that grow in the telling.


I'm also of the same opinion, especially as s.57A Firearms Act specifically excludes Airsoft replicas that are within the 1.3J/2.5J power limits from the definition of "firearm"

I wouldn't want to discount any additional orders that may have been placed on an individual prohibiting the possession of imitations however!

Then again I don't necessarily place too much trust in the legislative process, the intention of parliament and what is written on vellum can and do differ, sometimes significantly.

 
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What a headache reading all this it says airsoft guns under 1.3 joules are exempt but still decided not to buy one for the meantime even though I think it should be fine but if the law changes one day I wouldn't know and don't think it's worth the risk .

 
Right let me try and help you in this context!

Using the latest Guidance on Firearms Licensing Law as of March 2015

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417199/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13.pdf

According to Section 1.1, the definition of a Firearm is:

"A Firearm is defined as a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

Reading straight on to section 1.2 states:

Low powered air weapons are not licensed in England and Wales unless they are of a type declared specially dangerous by the Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 but there are restrictions on their sale.

Hmm that restrictions on their sale sounds a lot like "UKARA" to me?

 
Section 1.3 tells us what "Specially Dangerous" means:

An air weapon is “specially dangerous” if it is capable of discharging a missile with kinetic energy in excess, in the case of an air pistol, of 6 foot lbs or, in the case of other air weapons,12 foot lbs.

Pistol: 6 foot lbs = 8 joules = an FPS of 938FPS using .2g BBs

Rifle: 12 foot lbs = 16.3 joules = an FPS of 1326FPS using .2g BBs

However the correct part we are after in this guide in the regards to Firearms License is this Section 2.5 and 2.6 states:

Testing has been conducted by the Forensic Science Service on the actual lethality thresholds for airsoft BB 6 mm plastic pellets (0.2 grams). This work has become necessary in the light of the Violent Crime Reduction Act since a greater focus has been given to differentiating between realistic imitation firearms (often used for airsoft skirmishing) and firearms above the lethality threshold that would fall to be considered low powered airguns (or Section 5 (1) (a) prohibited weapons if capable of fully automatic fire).

Based on that work, we think it is safe to conclude that fully automatic airsoft guns operating at 1.3 joules or less and single shot (or semi automatic) airsoft guns operating at 2.5 joules or less would not engage the lethality threshold crossing over into stricter controls under the Firearms Act. This would mean that airsoft firearms that are also realistic imitation firearms operating at or below these thresholds would, nonetheless, not be required to be sold by a Registered Firearms Dealer but that the other control provisions provided by the Violent Crime Reduction Act would apply. Please note that this has not yet been tested by the courts.

Based on the above two paragraphs we can surmise that Airsoft weapons even those firing 6mm .2g BBs at even 2.5 joules of energy DO NOT meet the lethality threshold, because they DO NOT meet the lethality threshold they CANNOT be considered a firearm no matter how realistic they are, therefore it would be unlikely that he would be in breach of his Firearms Ban as that applies specifically to lethal barrelled weapons, furthermore I think a Firearms Ban specifically applies to him if he were to apply for a Firearms Certificate to own a firearm and that he is banned from ever owning such a certificate for any lethal barrel firearm. Airsoft weapons as realistic as they are do not fall under the same category.

However there are still restrictions on carrying these things in public, normal common sense (i hope applies).

In your case get advice from your local firearms officer or better yet the Firearms Licensing officer, the PC at the Police Station front desk will likely not know the answer to your question or even know where to find it.

I hope it helps by pointing you in the right direction.
I actually had to call as I had a 6 year sentence and bought a daisy style rifle that fires metal BBs I was told because it was under the power per lbs I was not in breach 

 
Oh you do, do you?

If I had it my way, criminals evicted of assault would not be allowed to learn how to more effectively hurt people. I have just lived enough life to know that a lot of criminals does just this, reoffend, get caught, let out again and so it goes.

It is a game and a sport, but it does utilise items that can and are being used in criminal activity, hence who can participate should be limited.

As for common sense in laws.. I really do not see what you are hinting at, but common sense does sadly not apply in English laws, nor is it possible with the way the legal system works in England.

I do not think this discussion can further progress I can not see your point of view and you can clearly not see mine. I suggest we leave it at that.
Hello there, maybe you can shed some light on the questions that I have regarding your comments on this subject… 14 years ago I was sentenced to 4 and a half years in prison for section18 wounding with intent to commit grievous bodily harm (no weapons). The victim was the violent partner of my mum who would regularly beat her to the point she was unrecognisable, demand sex then when she refused he would beat her a little more then have sex with her regardless, which constitutes as rape, as in most domestic violence cases he hid behind the silence of the victim, she was too scared to speak out. So yeah I beat him to the point he was within inches of his life, you’d do the same for your mum right?… I was 18 at the time. Fast forward 14 years, I’m a father of 5 children, I have my own home, a full time job on top of being self employed, I volunteer for many charities and organisations including the army cadet force, blood bikes, motorsport uk and so on. I enjoy airsoft as a sport, I also enjoy Krav Maga as a sport. So is what your saying that as an ex convict of one crime 14 years ago (which I could have got away with if I hadn’t been honest and admitted it) I’m not entitled to live a normal life? I’m to constantly be burdened? I’ll never serve my time? I’m wrong to expect to be able to do anything enjoyable? I’ll be as honest with you as you are with your narrow minded viewpoint… it’s people like you, yes you with such narrow minded, contemptuous mindsets that are the exact reason why a lot of offenders never rehabilitate, constant criticism, looking down on them making them feel ashamed for making a mistake however big or small. I think you need to go and have a seriously long hard chat with yourself and realise your probably not as perfect as you think. Tell me you’ve never driven one mph over the speed limit? (That’s still speeding) never purchased a knife from a supermarket then walked home with it? (Yes that’s still possession of a bladed offensive weapon in a public place) Cycled on a pavement?… after all a crime is a crime right? Get a grip of yourself seriously. I play airsoft and I own RIFs, am I going to hurt someone with it? Damn right and they’re going to hurt me with theirs, that’s how the game goes. Am I going to maliciously go out of my house and walk down the street shooting random members of the public to hurt, scare or rob them? Am I fuck as like. They’re kept under a lock and key away from my children, are transported in a locked case to and from a game site and used with targets and net in my back garden. 
 

so before you judge, be mindful that not everything is as narrow as your illogical thinking. Have a nice day ?

 
Hello there, maybe you can shed some light on the questions that I have regarding your comments on this subject… 14 years ago I was sentenced to 4 and a half years in prison for section18 wounding with intent to commit grievous bodily harm (no weapons). The victim was the violent partner of my mum who would regularly beat her to the point she was unrecognisable, demand sex then when she refused he would beat her a little more then have sex with her regardless, which constitutes as rape, as in most domestic violence cases he hid behind the silence of the victim, she was too scared to speak out. So yeah I beat him to the point he was within inches of his life, you’d do the same for your mum right?… I was 18 at the time. Fast forward 14 years, I’m a father of 5 children, I have my own home, a full time job on top of being self employed, I volunteer for many charities and organisations including the army cadet force, blood bikes, motorsport uk and so on. I enjoy airsoft as a sport, I also enjoy Krav Maga as a sport. So is what your saying that as an ex convict of one crime 14 years ago (which I could have got away with if I hadn’t been honest and admitted it) I’m not entitled to live a normal life? I’m to constantly be burdened? I’ll never serve my time? I’m wrong to expect to be able to do anything enjoyable? I’ll be as honest with you as you are with your narrow minded viewpoint… it’s people like you, yes you with such narrow minded, contemptuous mindsets that are the exact reason why a lot of offenders never rehabilitate, constant criticism, looking down on them making them feel ashamed for making a mistake however big or small. I think you need to go and have a seriously long hard chat with yourself and realise your probably not as perfect as you think. Tell me you’ve never driven one mph over the speed limit? (That’s still speeding) never purchased a knife from a supermarket then walked home with it? (Yes that’s still possession of a bladed offensive weapon in a public place) Cycled on a pavement?… after all a crime is a crime right? Get a grip of yourself seriously. I play airsoft and I own RIFs, am I going to hurt someone with it? Damn right and they’re going to hurt me with theirs, that’s how the game goes. Am I going to maliciously go out of my house and walk down the street shooting random members of the public to hurt, scare or rob them? Am I fuck as like. They’re kept under a lock and key away from my children, are transported in a locked case to and from a game site and used with targets and net in my back garden. 
 

so before you judge, be mindful that not everything is as narrow as your illogical thinking. Have a nice day ?
WTF ??????

 
Hello there, maybe you can shed some light on the questions that I have regarding your comments on this subject… 14 years ago I was sentenced to 4 and a half years in prison for section18 wounding with intent to commit grievous bodily harm (no weapons). The victim was the violent partner of my mum who would regularly beat her to the point she was unrecognisable, demand sex then when she refused he would beat her a little more then have sex with her regardless, which constitutes as rape, as in most domestic violence cases he hid behind the silence of the victim, she was too scared to speak out. So yeah I beat him to the point he was within inches of his life, you’d do the same for your mum right?… I was 18 at the time. Fast forward 14 years, I’m a father of 5 children, I have my own home, a full time job on top of being self employed, I volunteer for many charities and organisations including the army cadet force, blood bikes, motorsport uk and so on. I enjoy airsoft as a sport, I also enjoy Krav Maga as a sport. So is what your saying that as an ex convict of one crime 14 years ago (which I could have got away with if I hadn’t been honest and admitted it) I’m not entitled to live a normal life? I’m to constantly be burdened? I’ll never serve my time? I’m wrong to expect to be able to do anything enjoyable? I’ll be as honest with you as you are with your narrow minded viewpoint… it’s people like you, yes you with such narrow minded, contemptuous mindsets that are the exact reason why a lot of offenders never rehabilitate, constant criticism, looking down on them making them feel ashamed for making a mistake however big or small. I think you need to go and have a seriously long hard chat with yourself and realise your probably not as perfect as you think. Tell me you’ve never driven one mph over the speed limit? (That’s still speeding) never purchased a knife from a supermarket then walked home with it? (Yes that’s still possession of a bladed offensive weapon in a public place) Cycled on a pavement?… after all a crime is a crime right? Get a grip of yourself seriously. I play airsoft and I own RIFs, am I going to hurt someone with it? Damn right and they’re going to hurt me with theirs, that’s how the game goes. Am I going to maliciously go out of my house and walk down the street shooting random members of the public to hurt, scare or rob them? Am I fuck as like. They’re kept under a lock and key away from my children, are transported in a locked case to and from a game site and used with targets and net in my back garden. 
 

so before you judge, be mindful that not everything is as narrow as your illogical thinking. Have a nice day ?
Paragraphs! Necro!

I don’t care why you were convicted, a RIF isn’t a firearm lol

 
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