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Doing our bit for the environment and the argument for bio BBs
- Thread starter AndyDynamic
- Start date
AndyDynamic
Members
- Oct 27, 2017
- 111
- 7
- Thread starter
- #42
This can be true as some makes of Bio BB leave a chalk style residue due to the coating, I was aware of this before we bought some.
Easy solution? Clean your barrel after every game day and develop a habit of caring for your equipment. Then your kit will last longer and work better.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,195
- 6,058
Which way though? I'm shocked that I've actually been persuaded by reasoned arguments and am changing my next order to include (ostensibly) biodegredable BBs now!
Back when I first started airsofting many moons ago, the woodland site I played at enforced bio BBs only to the point where you could only use BBs bought on site. Obviously this was difficult to enforce, but this is an honour based sport I suppose, so I believe most people probably used them. The ones the site sold were the above mentioned Green Devils, and they were ok I guess? I only ever used them in rental guns, and my own budget beginner guns with no aftermarket parts and sloppy Chinese child labour factory tolerances. Which they still caused an occasional jam in. They take in some moisture from the atmosphere and can swell ever so slightly if stored for long periods of time. Id be reluctant to try them in my custom built guns with extreme tightbore barrels etc. We were told the Green Devils took on average 4-7 years to biodegrade once they were exposed to moisture and bacteria in the soil, temperature/rainfall dependant.
My problem with them was they were hella expensive, easily double the price of regular BBs and then some. And I was a trigger happy little newbie. I loved my hicaps and would easily burn through 2-3 bags of 3000 bbs a day. Nowadays this wouldnt be a problem, my most recent bottle of 5000 ASG blasters has lasted me about 7 months so far
I dont even remember the last time I switched any of my guns to full auto. They also shatter a lot easier than plastic BBs and this causes problems for people who wear mesh eye protection, little bits of waxy resin grit in your eyes is no fun.
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- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,100
- 1,664
Bio BBs are now much better than they used to be 5 or so years ago. There's basically a complete absence of the couple of brands that 'shattered' and were banned, and even up to .30 you can get reliable ones that'll even work in a gun that needs very hard BBs like some of the GBBRs and mechanical HPA guns. The issue is still cost for many and availability for some. I for one really like the Green Devil BBs but they only do two manufacturing runs a year and importing them is expensive. They did just move production out of the UK to mainland Europe to hopefully they new facility can keep up with demand enough for them to appear on shelves.
Really the thing that gets people to switch of course is sites requiring bio BBs (of which a few of the woodland ones have done for nearly a decade now).
Really the thing that gets people to switch of course is sites requiring bio BBs (of which a few of the woodland ones have done for nearly a decade now).
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
As said before, I'm contradictory in this thread to myself but I have my reasons.
I do not see a point on the individual level to switching unless manufacturers start to switch (even if every UK site switches, manufacturers will not change their current ways because we are not the largest market for airsoft... If America changes then I imagine bios would be the norm everywhere pretty quick.)
BUT
As "the next generation" I want to be able to use everything I can to protect what we have (let's be honest, we have wrecked a lot of the ecosystem already)
BUT
As an apprentice earning pitiful amounts of money, in order to fund my hobby i will use the cheaper and more viable option.
I'm on £3.50 an hour, trying to just get by in a tanking economy with a ridiculous housing market.... Do I really want to spend loads of money on the consumables behind the sport? no. not really. 1 time use plastic or bio, I'm going to buy the cheap stuff. (I would say I will get a raise soon, but that's unlikely, even then I'd only be earning £7/hour at most)
As such, I'm not trigger happy either (My most amount of bbs fired in 1 single day of airsoft to date is roughly 500, and that was CQB).
But anyway, that's besides the point.
We might as well turn this thread into something that can be read later and what we see isn't "the idea is stupid, no its not" debate
So instead of just the opinions... and the normal arguments for and against.
Lets actually look at some comparisons
How about we use this thread to post up bb brands, quantities, prices per bag/bottle etc, maybe even price per individual bb.
Then at least we can let people decide what bbs to buy and save us all from arguing further lol...
For example, this bio bb bag on amazon here.
Brand: BB King? Can't quite tell from the images
Type: Bio
Weight: 0.25
Price: 12.90
Quantity: 4000
Individual bb price: 0.003225
Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/quality-Airsoft-0-25g-Premium-balls/dp/B005447A6E/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1518721482&sr=8-6&keywords=bio+bbs
Other comments: I have no idea about this brand, whether they swell easily, whether they are nicely finished, anything like that, as far as bios go I have no idea lol.
Example for Plastics from Defcon airsoft
Brand: RZR
Type: Plastic
Weight: 0.25
Price: £8.99
Quantity: 3300
Individual bb price: 0.00272424 recurring
Link: https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/nuprol-rzr-3300rnd-0-25g-bbs/
Other comments: These have been reliable so far, nice polish, and have been generally good for use.
Now I've literally just grabbed the first bio bb bag off amazon for the example, but from that we can see that the cost is actually very similar... Just it's the other factors that can make or break the choice between them.
I do not see a point on the individual level to switching unless manufacturers start to switch (even if every UK site switches, manufacturers will not change their current ways because we are not the largest market for airsoft... If America changes then I imagine bios would be the norm everywhere pretty quick.)
BUT
As "the next generation" I want to be able to use everything I can to protect what we have (let's be honest, we have wrecked a lot of the ecosystem already)
BUT
As an apprentice earning pitiful amounts of money, in order to fund my hobby i will use the cheaper and more viable option.
I'm on £3.50 an hour, trying to just get by in a tanking economy with a ridiculous housing market.... Do I really want to spend loads of money on the consumables behind the sport? no. not really. 1 time use plastic or bio, I'm going to buy the cheap stuff. (I would say I will get a raise soon, but that's unlikely, even then I'd only be earning £7/hour at most)
As such, I'm not trigger happy either (My most amount of bbs fired in 1 single day of airsoft to date is roughly 500, and that was CQB).
But anyway, that's besides the point.
We might as well turn this thread into something that can be read later and what we see isn't "the idea is stupid, no its not" debate
So instead of just the opinions... and the normal arguments for and against.
Lets actually look at some comparisons
How about we use this thread to post up bb brands, quantities, prices per bag/bottle etc, maybe even price per individual bb.
Then at least we can let people decide what bbs to buy and save us all from arguing further lol...
For example, this bio bb bag on amazon here.
Brand: BB King? Can't quite tell from the images
Type: Bio
Weight: 0.25
Price: 12.90
Quantity: 4000
Individual bb price: 0.003225
Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/quality-Airsoft-0-25g-Premium-balls/dp/B005447A6E/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1518721482&sr=8-6&keywords=bio+bbs
Other comments: I have no idea about this brand, whether they swell easily, whether they are nicely finished, anything like that, as far as bios go I have no idea lol.
Example for Plastics from Defcon airsoft
Brand: RZR
Type: Plastic
Weight: 0.25
Price: £8.99
Quantity: 3300
Individual bb price: 0.00272424 recurring
Link: https://www.defconairsoft.co.uk/product/nuprol-rzr-3300rnd-0-25g-bbs/
Other comments: These have been reliable so far, nice polish, and have been generally good for use.
Now I've literally just grabbed the first bio bb bag off amazon for the example, but from that we can see that the cost is actually very similar... Just it's the other factors that can make or break the choice between them.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,195
- 6,058
There's a certain pragmatism about it. If you're the only player using ecoballs on a site then it's still going to be covered in a layer of deathballs.
Which strengthens the argument for sites mandating it.
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
the argument that there’s no point buying bios because the manufacturers will continue to make plastics anyway is kinda daft... of course they’ll make plastics if everyone keeps buying them! Buy more bio BBs and manufacturers will MAKE more bio BBs.
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
The only issue with "buying BIOS to make manufacturers change" is that it needs a rather large market shift towards BIOS for a change in manufacturing. Now lets be honest, BIOS have a similar reputation in the community to CYMA for guns (most are rubbish and not worth the money kind of rep)
But instead of calling out daft arguments, just research alongside me and bust what myths there may be (bad shelf life, expensive, not really bio, etc.)
What is the actual point of keeping on the opinions and such when the issue with BIOS is they have a bad rep? Prove the reputation wrong and you will sway more people into buying.
Calling people wrong doesn't change their opinion lol.
But instead of calling out daft arguments, just research alongside me and bust what myths there may be (bad shelf life, expensive, not really bio, etc.)
What is the actual point of keeping on the opinions and such when the issue with BIOS is they have a bad rep? Prove the reputation wrong and you will sway more people into buying.
Calling people wrong doesn't change their opinion lol.
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
i have ordered a bag of the bio bbs i linked in a previous post, and will get them tomorrow. Then i will test them and i will trial them at my next game and we will see how they work, if these are really bio then that's a bonus. As these are some cheap bbs, especially for BIOS and the "expensive" argument
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TheFull9
Supporters
- Dec 17, 2011
- 3,571
- 2,341
If someone makes bios that are at least 95% as good as non, they're commonly/easily available but they cost 10-20% more.. pff.. no f**ks given either way. The amount of BBs I shoot per game/year the difference would be so close to zero it makes absolutely no odds. Personally though I often crack a bottle of 3k and don't finish until about 18 months later, so I'd not want them to expand or degrade in storage.
Once that availability is there I'll make the change, genuinely could not be less fussed in either direction.
Once that availability is there I'll make the change, genuinely could not be less fussed in either direction.
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^that
its not even about the price. I probably shoot a couple hundred shots in a full day’s game. So a bag of 3000 is going to be opened and closed constantly and not be used in months. I’ve got a bag of airsoft surgeon bio .3 that redwolf sent me by mistake. Shot okay when I first got them. 2 months later, they have lost their accuracy and I’ve had one break apart.
I dont mind paying double the price, but until someone smarter than me tests on in the weight I need that doesn’t deteriorate until it’s in the ground and is just as hard or consistent then I’ll stick with what I know. I’m not breaking an expensive gun to keep a tree hugger happy.
its not even about the price. I probably shoot a couple hundred shots in a full day’s game. So a bag of 3000 is going to be opened and closed constantly and not be used in months. I’ve got a bag of airsoft surgeon bio .3 that redwolf sent me by mistake. Shot okay when I first got them. 2 months later, they have lost their accuracy and I’ve had one break apart.
I dont mind paying double the price, but until someone smarter than me tests on in the weight I need that doesn’t deteriorate until it’s in the ground and is just as hard or consistent then I’ll stick with what I know. I’m not breaking an expensive gun to keep a tree hugger happy.
callumbagshaw
Members
- Mar 7, 2011
- 406
- 30
Not read every reply (brace for flaming) but here's my two cents
This has probably already been mentioned but the two problems with bio BBs are (where players are concerned)
1) They (in my experience, correct me if wrong) are generally much more expensive than non-bio BBs.
2) They are known for swelling causing all sorts of jams & problems to your expensive RIF (or they were a few years ago when i looked into this).
That aside, yes in an ideal world it would be great if everyone used bio BBs but looking at it as a whole, the remains a few thousand skirmishers pew-pewing each other on a Saturday is a drop in the ocean compared with the impact on the environment caused by big-time industry.
This has probably already been mentioned but the two problems with bio BBs are (where players are concerned)
1) They (in my experience, correct me if wrong) are generally much more expensive than non-bio BBs.
2) They are known for swelling causing all sorts of jams & problems to your expensive RIF (or they were a few years ago when i looked into this).
That aside, yes in an ideal world it would be great if everyone used bio BBs but looking at it as a whole, the remains a few thousand skirmishers pew-pewing each other on a Saturday is a drop in the ocean compared with the impact on the environment caused by big-time industry.
Not to mention that using bios over standard probably doesn't even actually offset the impact of manufacturing them in the first place.
- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,100
- 1,664
So we're meant to use even more harmful BBs? Wat. I think for most people the concern is plastic being buried in a patch of forest, not the manufacturing cost itself. Anybody looking for a carbon neutral BB is going to be disappointed and even bio BBs are - as an example - made from extracts from corn (which of course has to be planted somewhere). However, cleaning up those issues is far easier than getting plastic out of the ground, that's tainted a water-table or is sitting out at sea. Is that better than a petrochemical derivative though? Perhaps. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the bio BB brands still use fractions of crude anyway.
I'll certainly accept that bio BBs are too expensive and they do need to be used in ~6 months (even the good ones), but there are performers out there if you look. Laser Dots and Green Devil are good examples of this. Nuprol and BB King white-labels gave heavy and bio BBs a really bad name not too long ago though, so scepticism is understandable and if you're playing at an urban site I just can't see bio being worth doing at all.
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AndyDynamic
Members
- Oct 27, 2017
- 111
- 7
- Thread starter
- #59
Ease up on the meme trolling there guys ^_^
I certainly won't be getting all preachy to other players, that's not my style. If you want to stick with plastic BBs, that's fine - I'll encourage others to switch, but I won't go around with a sign shouting "REPENT PLASTIC SINNERS!" or switching out their bottles when they're not looking.
I certainly won't be getting all preachy to other players, that's not my style. If you want to stick with plastic BBs, that's fine - I'll encourage others to switch, but I won't go around with a sign shouting "REPENT PLASTIC SINNERS!" or switching out their bottles when they're not looking.
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