Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
Hmm, they mandate biodegradable, but sell non-biodegradable as well.
I'm struggling to find a Green Devil retailer, or any indication of cost.
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Doing our bit for the environment and the argument for bio BBs
- Thread starter AndyDynamic
- Start date
Hmm, they mandate biodegradable, but sell non-biodegradable as well.
I'm struggling to find a Green Devil retailer, or any indication of cost.
I think we should all do a little bit to help the environment. If people had started 50 years ago then we wouldn't be where we are at today going "oh sh*t, maybe we should do something about all this waste".
No, using biodegradable BBs isn't going to save the world on it's own, but doing what we can where we can is certainly a step in the right direction. If we continue to say to ourselves "oh this won't change anything so I can't be arsed" then it only adds to the problem.
No, using biodegradable BBs isn't going to save the world on it's own, but doing what we can where we can is certainly a step in the right direction. If we continue to say to ourselves "oh this won't change anything so I can't be arsed" then it only adds to the problem.
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Sako
Members
- Jan 19, 2014
- 281
- 29
My local woodland site has now made it a ‘biodegradable only’ site recently, at the land owners request.
AndyDynamic
Members
- Oct 27, 2017
- 111
- 7
- Thread starter
- #24
Duff said:
Great examples there, Valken, G&G, Madbull - these are big names producing high quality, biodegradable rounds. Even tracer ones too.
According to a listing on Patrol Base, they're tested by TUV Rheinland - https://www.tuv.com/united-kingdom/en/ - and looking at the table, 15 degrees temperature (roughly normal British summer) under trash covering like leaves, they do degrade over 2 years. That's a while but is not comparable with plastic taking hundreds of years.
Fumps
Members
- Oct 9, 2013
- 479
- 181
To be honest when I first found out about Airsoft I automatically assumed the BB's were going to be biodegradable, it took me a silly amount of time to notice that they were not.
Although most land that Airsoft events happen on are considered scrub land etc the argument can be made for the land Over time to become seen as contaminated & the value of the land could be drastically reduced due to this, In effect the land owner could be loosing money by allowing events to take place on the site. Which could be disastrous for the hobby. So I can see a clear argument for Bio BB's to become the norm in the not too distant future.
A 50 acre section of land behind my employers site came up for sale & my company was keen to buy but the land was found to be contaminated by waste plastics & industrial waste, so we walked. Another company purchased the site at a huge knockdown price because of it.
The contamination turned out to be nothing more than just waste plastics in the earth. but the landowner took a huge hit on price either way.
Although most land that Airsoft events happen on are considered scrub land etc the argument can be made for the land Over time to become seen as contaminated & the value of the land could be drastically reduced due to this, In effect the land owner could be loosing money by allowing events to take place on the site. Which could be disastrous for the hobby. So I can see a clear argument for Bio BB's to become the norm in the not too distant future.
A 50 acre section of land behind my employers site came up for sale & my company was keen to buy but the land was found to be contaminated by waste plastics & industrial waste, so we walked. Another company purchased the site at a huge knockdown price because of it.
The contamination turned out to be nothing more than just waste plastics in the earth. but the landowner took a huge hit on price either way.
Lozart
Supporters
- Jun 24, 2013
- 8,493
- 4,941
Cattle produce more greenhouse gases than all the cars, boats and planes in the world. Is that a reason to not bother making those vehicles more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly? Of course not. The same way that just because BB's left in the woods is only a tiny fraction of the plastic waste we produce is no reason to not try and use something biodegradable. The bigger issue for us is that the BioBBs on the market at the minute (with the possible exception of those mentioned above) tend to be hygroscopic and swell in storage if exposed to damp.
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
IMO, Unless every country swaps to bio, what difference will we make?
Like that's the most half bothered way to say it, but seriously speaking.
Without the reliability of plastic, the bio bbs will not pick up demand on the market to make them worth switching to from a manufacturers point of view.
If the UK backs out of plastic bbs, the manufacturers will turn elsewhere to sell them, and just keep giving us the bad quality of bio bbs.
How do you even enforce the rule anyway??
Marshals looking and taking a handful of bbs off every player at every game to dump them in hot water to test? Maybe my first 100 are bios and the rest are imported cheap plastic? Spot checking at lunch as well?
Bios won't break down overnight, (how do you know who shot them anyway after they have left the mag?)
How long til people start buying cheap plastic bb bottles and just relabelling them as "bio"
You wouldn't find out for years...
This entire situation would literally be a "honour" problem again similar to the "call your hits" issues.
Like I said, without the entire world and all manufacturers backing this notion, it's not going to change.
Like that's the most half bothered way to say it, but seriously speaking.
Without the reliability of plastic, the bio bbs will not pick up demand on the market to make them worth switching to from a manufacturers point of view.
If the UK backs out of plastic bbs, the manufacturers will turn elsewhere to sell them, and just keep giving us the bad quality of bio bbs.
How do you even enforce the rule anyway??
Marshals looking and taking a handful of bbs off every player at every game to dump them in hot water to test? Maybe my first 100 are bios and the rest are imported cheap plastic? Spot checking at lunch as well?
Bios won't break down overnight, (how do you know who shot them anyway after they have left the mag?)
How long til people start buying cheap plastic bb bottles and just relabelling them as "bio"
You wouldn't find out for years...
This entire situation would literally be a "honour" problem again similar to the "call your hits" issues.
Like I said, without the entire world and all manufacturers backing this notion, it's not going to change.
- Oct 20, 2012
- 5,101
- 1,667
Not that I necessarily disagree with the premise, but this sort of argument is a good excuse to never do anything useful.
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
The thing is though, it's a good excuse for a reason lol.
I'm a heavy recycling fan, and I do everything I can to save electricity and all that good stuff, purely because it feels good.
I for one would 100% switch to bios if they could match what we get from plastic bbs.
But without manufacturers support, it really won't matter what we do to try and help the environment in this case, because like I say, they will just look elsewhere to sell their cheap stuff and leave us with the expensive stuff and then suddenly bios don't seem like a good idea to the consumers.
I know I personally don't feel good after spending upshot of £15 on bbs that aren't as reliable as their £10 counterparts, Also the fact that then I have to pretty much use them within a few game days because their shelf life is lacking. "I am british and I like to save money damn it"
Being Eco-Friendly, and making the changes to Eco-Friendly is easy at the individual level
Making Eco-Friendly changes to an industry, and global sport though, takes a lot more than a few countries saying "we don't want your non Eco-Friendly stuff."
Too be brutally honest, I don't see why manufacturers don't just rip down all plastic bbs and force everyone into using bios (but there must be a reason right?)... That would be a more feasible choice than having the consumers change sides.
Yes I'm awake im contradictory in this reply, but that's my honest thoughts on it, Good motive, one that's easy to get behind... but lacks the power it needs to create change.
You've got to start somewhere though?
if they were same price and like for like quality with regular bb's I wouldn't have a problem using them, I've never felt I get the same consistency out of them though.
Might just be a placebo but hey ho.
LightningCh
Members
- Dec 1, 2017
- 464
- 77
True... You do have to start somewhere... But IMO, we just won't have the power to drive the change needed. We switch, manufacturers won't.
I personally, will not be sacrificing my money in the expense of bio bbs purely to gain the feeling of doing good.
If manufacturers can make bio bbs that are equivalent to plastic (or like I said, just rip down all plastic bbs) people will be more eager (or forced) to change, but for now, people will keep buying cheap stuff because it's cheap lol.
There are things that can be done, but it’s responsible use that is required.
Plastic isn’t necessarily the demon it is reported to be. On overall resources plastics can be very efficient, if you take the resources to make x number of plastic bags to x number of paper bags - or even bags for life. When we had carrier bags as a matter of routine Tesco’s brought in bio-degradable bags so that they would disintegrate over time - but then people complained because they were still reusing the bags
We now have bags for life littering the streets, or being used once and then used as a bin bag
Use and reuse then you’re getting the value out of the resources
With power we still use the worlds resources and the cleanest power is available for nuclear energy, it has a long life but can be managed and is sustainable
The ‘green’ world is led by commerce, and private enterprise making the most of subsidies
I had a few green visits in one of my old jobs and it got pretty depressing about the better things for the environment being trumped by the commercially viable. Bristol had a ‘green’ incinerator system paid for by the council but they couldn’t afford to use it. We raised the awkward question as to why this green incinerator which took in waste and sent out electricity, heating and sold fine dust to construction, but next door the old dirty incinerator was spewing smoke with a queue of council bIn lorries. The answer was that the company ‘trialling’ it on behalf of the council was raking in the profit with hospital waste, police evidence destruction (after the cases - porn, drugs, weapons etc) and industrial waste
The capacity was fully taken and everyone was paying for the privilege
The company closed when the trial ended - and moved on into other ‘green’ companies to take other subsidies
Trying to do something is a good thing, and it’s the title things that count but second thoughts do need to be considered
Plastic isn’t necessarily the demon it is reported to be. On overall resources plastics can be very efficient, if you take the resources to make x number of plastic bags to x number of paper bags - or even bags for life. When we had carrier bags as a matter of routine Tesco’s brought in bio-degradable bags so that they would disintegrate over time - but then people complained because they were still reusing the bags
We now have bags for life littering the streets, or being used once and then used as a bin bag
Use and reuse then you’re getting the value out of the resources
With power we still use the worlds resources and the cleanest power is available for nuclear energy, it has a long life but can be managed and is sustainable
The ‘green’ world is led by commerce, and private enterprise making the most of subsidies
I had a few green visits in one of my old jobs and it got pretty depressing about the better things for the environment being trumped by the commercially viable. Bristol had a ‘green’ incinerator system paid for by the council but they couldn’t afford to use it. We raised the awkward question as to why this green incinerator which took in waste and sent out electricity, heating and sold fine dust to construction, but next door the old dirty incinerator was spewing smoke with a queue of council bIn lorries. The answer was that the company ‘trialling’ it on behalf of the council was raking in the profit with hospital waste, police evidence destruction (after the cases - porn, drugs, weapons etc) and industrial waste
The capacity was fully taken and everyone was paying for the privilege
The company closed when the trial ended - and moved on into other ‘green’ companies to take other subsidies
Trying to do something is a good thing, and it’s the title things that count but second thoughts do need to be considered
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
Think global, act local.
I'm far from being an ecomentalist, but I can see the merit in keeping my (literal) own neck of the woods clear.
However, I'm also lazy and a cheapskate. I'm not chasing after hard-to-get BBs, or using ones that don't function well, and the ballpark price appears to be £15 per kg for G&G 0.25g ecoballs, vs about £9 for non-bios (ASG / Ares).
Hmm, GunFire will supply Rockets 0.25g bios for £8.36 per kilo, although then you're getting into "But aaaaaare they?" territory.
Still, it's given me something to think about, and I expect we will all end up using ecoballs sooner or later.
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I'm also more than happy to spend a little more on Bio BB's. I'm mates with Andy so we have chipped in together. If people share a bulk order you can get them as cheaply as regular BBs so its a win win situation.
It's like every 'environmentally friendlier' choice we make, the little changes all add up. I recently played a site that allowed Bio only, I have no problem with paying for a bag on the day. But now with a bulk order I'm set for about 2 years. It's about doing something good, the feeling good bit is a bonus.
If you want to go bio great, if you don't that's fine too. Everything we do in life impacts the environment and I'm sure in some way many of us try to reduce our impact somehow and that's what makes a difference.
It's like every 'environmentally friendlier' choice we make, the little changes all add up. I recently played a site that allowed Bio only, I have no problem with paying for a bag on the day. But now with a bulk order I'm set for about 2 years. It's about doing something good, the feeling good bit is a bonus.
If you want to go bio great, if you don't that's fine too. Everything we do in life impacts the environment and I'm sure in some way many of us try to reduce our impact somehow and that's what makes a difference.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
I'd have thought biodegradable BBs would have a fairly limited shelf life. Have I thought wrong?
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
Green devil Bo BBs are harder and more reliable than Blasters for me. There’s a reason most systema PTW users in the U.K. use them and they’re recommended as the best BB to use by Tackleberry (basically the only PTW tech in the world who is worth using, systema ask him for his recommendations on how to improve their platform).
The argument about ‘no one else is going to do it, so why should we’ holds no water at all. That’s like saying if you’re going to crash your car don’t bother hitting the brakes to slow down the impact, since it’s going to happen anyway.
If even 1% of the population of the world stopped their polluting behaviour there would be 1% less pollution, it’s a process not an overnight fix.
Littering the countryside with one use plastic BBs because you’re too cheap to pay an extra couple of quid for decent bios is utterly irresponsible, you might as well just empty a big bag of plastic water bottles onto the site every time you play.
Plastics arent the problem, plastic WASTE is the problem, one use plastics are almost entirely unnecessary in most situations. As ammunition for an Airsoft gun there is a viable alternative which is biodegradable BBs.
The argument about ‘no one else is going to do it, so why should we’ holds no water at all. That’s like saying if you’re going to crash your car don’t bother hitting the brakes to slow down the impact, since it’s going to happen anyway.
If even 1% of the population of the world stopped their polluting behaviour there would be 1% less pollution, it’s a process not an overnight fix.
Littering the countryside with one use plastic BBs because you’re too cheap to pay an extra couple of quid for decent bios is utterly irresponsible, you might as well just empty a big bag of plastic water bottles onto the site every time you play.
Plastics arent the problem, plastic WASTE is the problem, one use plastics are almost entirely unnecessary in most situations. As ammunition for an Airsoft gun there is a viable alternative which is biodegradable BBs.
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
Decent ones are generally packaged in a clean dry environment and won’t degrade in the bag so long as they’re kept dry and out of direct sunlight.
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