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Do black broken airsoft guns need a licence?
- Thread starter ThePlayer
- Start date
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
You don't need a "licence", because none exists.
No offence is committed by purchasing or attempting to purchase either a realistic or a non-realistic (two toned) imitation firearm.
However, it's an offence for a seller (business or private) to sell a realistic imitation firearm. It's the exact same offence if you modify a non-realistic imitation firearm into a realistic imitation firearm: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36
The seller, or you if you modify one, can adduce a defence to that offence. The allowed defences include:
(b) the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;
(c) the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);
(d) the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37
If you're doing this as part of a film-making course, your educational institute should be able to provide bona fides. Likewise with your company if you're doing it commercially.
If it's for a YouTube channel or similar, you're on shakier ground. However, whether anyone would ever know or care is a valid question. In practice, that'll come down to how and where you use the RIFs, but I'm sure you're aware of that.
Thanks for taking this issue seriously, by the way. Many people would just have gone ahead and done it without considering the consequences.
No offence is committed by purchasing or attempting to purchase either a realistic or a non-realistic (two toned) imitation firearm.
However, it's an offence for a seller (business or private) to sell a realistic imitation firearm. It's the exact same offence if you modify a non-realistic imitation firearm into a realistic imitation firearm: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36
The seller, or you if you modify one, can adduce a defence to that offence. The allowed defences include:
(b) the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;
(c) the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);
(d) the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37
If you're doing this as part of a film-making course, your educational institute should be able to provide bona fides. Likewise with your company if you're doing it commercially.
If it's for a YouTube channel or similar, you're on shakier ground. However, whether anyone would ever know or care is a valid question. In practice, that'll come down to how and where you use the RIFs, but I'm sure you're aware of that.
Thanks for taking this issue seriously, by the way. Many people would just have gone ahead and done it without considering the consequences.
- Thread starter
- #5
Thanks! I was thinking of spray painting and making more realistic in general this one https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/broken-faulty-8907a-m4-ris-rail-spring-rifle-in-blue.html
(I want to get two) and I don't know what to do in terms of law. Can I film in public?
(I want to get two) and I don't know what to do in terms of law. Can I film in public?
- Jun 28, 2015
- 4,290
- 1,230
Taking black (RIF) guns out in public will make your film realistic, especially when armed response officers turn up to arrest those involved following phone call(s) from concerned members of the public.
EDcase
AF-UK patch owner
- Jun 24, 2017
- 3,599
- 1,590
No, it would have to be officially done to be in public areas.
You'd have to liase with the local Council and Police to arrange filming.
This would involve a lot of forms and money so unlikely I'm afraid...
Converting an IF to a RIF by painting black could cause some difficult questions if they came to the attention of authorities. ie. neighbor calls police seeing someone with a 'gun' next door...
You'd have to liase with the local Council and Police to arrange filming.
This would involve a lot of forms and money so unlikely I'm afraid...
Converting an IF to a RIF by painting black could cause some difficult questions if they came to the attention of authorities. ie. neighbor calls police seeing someone with a 'gun' next door...
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- Oct 7, 2017
- 6,081
- 5,399
just No, take rifs in public places without proper lawful arrangements will end up with a criminal record, maybe even prison time given the current climate, or maybe they'll just shoot you lol.
if you can be a little flexible on your filming location, why not consider contacting a suitable airsoft site to see if you can use their facilities ?, there may be a fee but it'll be way safer than what your proposing, & its likely there'll be plenty of rifs available & maybe some well kitted out extras ?
definitely worth a punt.
if you can be a little flexible on your filming location, why not consider contacting a suitable airsoft site to see if you can use their facilities ?, there may be a fee but it'll be way safer than what your proposing, & its likely there'll be plenty of rifs available & maybe some well kitted out extras ?
definitely worth a punt.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
For filming, that's probably a question for a different forum, although we do have a couple of artistic types on here.
You can film in public. The issue is possessing an imitation firearm (real or otherwise) in public, which is an offence under the Firearms Act 1968 S19: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/19
You need a "reasonable excuse". What constitutes that is entirely up to the constable, CPS and magistrates / judge if it all goes wrong.
Again, probably better asked on a theatrical forum.
There are two main parts to filming, getting the guns themselves as RIFs and the filming itself
Filmwork is a valid defence to purchase a RIF, and would also be valid for ‘modifying’ an IF by painting it black.
However ‘filming’ itself is not likely to persuade a seller, it would need to be for part of a proper production.
Please note that not particularly with airsoft but the film work element was abused by an individual who used the secrecy of Bond films to allow him to be vague about his purchases and to obtain and illegally modify blank firers, deactivated firearms for reactivation in DDS his position in the criminal arms dealing world
Retailers will be cagey about ‘film’ purchasers
Youtube isn’t suitable for the defence and student filmmakers don’t meet the criteria that most sellers would want, though university media departments may. Loan props can be obtained via the course
Filming in a public place does not legally need permits or licences, but most/many ‘public’ places are private locations with public access. (E.g. a park is probably owned by the council)
There may be signs not allowing you to film, or an ‘authority’ might tell you not to.
Making arrangements in advance (with the owners) and notifiying other interested parties (like the police) plus having documentation about those would justify that you have permission
Doing it with guns ups the ante - even if they are dayglo IFs, and there is a legislation that can drop you in a lot of trouble
https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/filming-in-public.html
On the ‘reality’ element in a film, we enter a cinema to accept that things are not real. It will depend on what you are making but a student film for example is judged on creativity and technicality - the realism of a gun is very low there.
Look at some films such as Jesus Christ Superstar - the Romans’ weapons and uniforms are far from period, and that is covered in the opening scene with a coach load of performers
Or Star Wars, which for Hollywood was a very low budget film that sourced weapons from prop departments, hence an abundance of WW2 & 69s/70s weapons with SciFi things stuck on them. This then followed into the series
War films in the 50s/60s had Germans driving American half tracks and British scout cars, and in the 80s the Russians flew gazelle gunships
Filling with airsoft guns in public is not the best idea, check out filmmaking forums, ask your university lecturer - and if you aren’t a film student then find your nearest film students to find out who to ask for better advice
Popping into the local police station would be helpful as if you go ahead it is them who will be getting calls or having a bobby pass by and Ben curious
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Filmwork is a valid defence to purchase a RIF, and would also be valid for ‘modifying’ an IF by painting it black.
However ‘filming’ itself is not likely to persuade a seller, it would need to be for part of a proper production.
Please note that not particularly with airsoft but the film work element was abused by an individual who used the secrecy of Bond films to allow him to be vague about his purchases and to obtain and illegally modify blank firers, deactivated firearms for reactivation in DDS his position in the criminal arms dealing world
Retailers will be cagey about ‘film’ purchasers
Youtube isn’t suitable for the defence and student filmmakers don’t meet the criteria that most sellers would want, though university media departments may. Loan props can be obtained via the course
Filming in a public place does not legally need permits or licences, but most/many ‘public’ places are private locations with public access. (E.g. a park is probably owned by the council)
There may be signs not allowing you to film, or an ‘authority’ might tell you not to.
Making arrangements in advance (with the owners) and notifiying other interested parties (like the police) plus having documentation about those would justify that you have permission
Doing it with guns ups the ante - even if they are dayglo IFs, and there is a legislation that can drop you in a lot of trouble
https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/filming-in-public.html
On the ‘reality’ element in a film, we enter a cinema to accept that things are not real. It will depend on what you are making but a student film for example is judged on creativity and technicality - the realism of a gun is very low there.
Look at some films such as Jesus Christ Superstar - the Romans’ weapons and uniforms are far from period, and that is covered in the opening scene with a coach load of performers
Or Star Wars, which for Hollywood was a very low budget film that sourced weapons from prop departments, hence an abundance of WW2 & 69s/70s weapons with SciFi things stuck on them. This then followed into the series
War films in the 50s/60s had Germans driving American half tracks and British scout cars, and in the 80s the Russians flew gazelle gunships
Filling with airsoft guns in public is not the best idea, check out filmmaking forums, ask your university lecturer - and if you aren’t a film student then find your nearest film students to find out who to ask for better advice
Popping into the local police station would be helpful as if you go ahead it is them who will be getting calls or having a bobby pass by and Ben curious
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GrimSqueeker
AF-UK patch owner
- Nov 19, 2018
- 28
- 0
Apart from the sagely advice above regarding the Rif's in a public place and the all to likely encounter with an ARV, I cannot believe that everyone has missed the elephant in the room that is "purchase from a shop with BBguns in the title".?
Bahahaha Scotland you say....You need a license for any air gun out there, don't you?
Anything that exceeds 1joule needs a license. The Scottish government hasn't come after airsofters yet I don't think, but they have gone after air rifle users.
1J is 328fps @0.2g
So by definition, most of my airsoft guns would require a license.
http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/service-fees-and-charges/firearms/air-weapon-licensing/legislation/
If they ever come after airsoft then they already have the statement written there to prosecute. If you didn't get advice, and it's hot, they have you. I'm very glad the rest of the UK doesn't have those laws.
It's the one reason UKARA is vital. If the rest of the UK follows Scotland with Air gun licensing and then the police decide that all RIF's over 1J are illegal without a license it will royally fuck the status quo. We'll either all be criminals, or we will all be forced to downgrade and prove that our guns chrono under the J limit. Guns that creep or that can be modded quickly without tools will be outlawed as well.
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I'm pretty okay with it, there were allot of scivvy chavvy cunts, who carried them about to threaten old ladies and piss off rivals.
Police Scotland are pretty chill, in scotland airsoft guns are still covered by the VCR, it's a parcel and overlapping defense, and that's not it, even then, they'd just give you a warning tell you to pay up £75. The 1J limit only applies to full autos anyway, and most sites do act rule out AEGs beyond 320, for SA or bolt action it's 1.5J
It would actually be easier to get an airgun license than qualify under VCR. "Collecting" is an excuse.
The VCR Still applies, which is why they have my support, paintball guns are also fully exempt.
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
Chap, you actually quoted the part that says 2.5J or 1.3J for fully auto. 1J is Northern Ireland, for all guns including springers.
- Thread starter
- #18
Ok. There is a airsoft site nearby that I can hire. It also hosts open weekends and some role play stuff. I was going to have this all at night, and the guns I want to buy are really dark blue, which will fit in with night filter I will add on.
Ask the site about rental guns and you will save on budget
Don’t trust web shop gallery photos on coloured guns, they may not be the colour in the pictures on the website, and note that dark blue is not an approved colour under the VCRA
- transparent
- bright red
- bright orange
- bright blue
- bright yellow
- bright green
- bright pink
- bright purple
Rogerborg
Supporters
- Aug 22, 2017
- 9,190
- 6,048
As a filming location? Smart move. If you're doing that anyway, why not ask if they have any rental guns that you can use for filming. It's not like they'll be doing anything else with them if it's closed for use as a set.
Not OP's problem, if BBgunz4lezz are prepared to sell them.
