Did I do the right thing?

[Dan_W]

I was gonna tell everyone my opinion, the only correct one of course, but I just couldn't be bothered.

Have fun kids and stay safe

 

[Lord_Metile]

I would have done the same...

 

[adam bussey]

A bit late but umm...

WRONG THREAD

 

[Lord_Metile]

Oh crap, wrong tab. Sorry, nothing to see here

 

[snuff]

...so does a sniper HAVE to carry a secondary or does it depend on the site?

 

[padraigthesniper]

I would of just waited until you got a bit further away and shot you in the back, or if that's not an option just let you pass when you play as a sniper and you find a good position you keep it, you dont shout player hit and give away where you are better just to wait for the next target.

 

[Samurai]

And after this happened as it happened, I bet if the sniper is in a similar situation, he would wait for the exact MED and shoot where the sun don't shine. He would be within the rules.

 

[Deej]

I love seeing threads like this. People being genuinely honourable in this our game of honour. I personally don't put much stead in the bang kill rule, I think it's a cop-out and I'd rather everyone be prepared to take a few nasty dings every now and again; especially when AEG FPS limits and general safety rules mean you should be adequately protected from lasting harm anyway.

On the one hand you probably should have taken the hit to be truly sporting - as people have said, if he totally had you then it was his good courtesy that got him killed, which sucks for him.. BUT:

Snipers have MEDs. Even on a no-bang-kill site, airsoft snipers don't get the luxury of playing doctor ('Injecting' you). If the man plays sniper - and clearly knows his MEDS hence this situation - then he should also know he needs a pistol or such for CQC work. What happened here is a learning experience for him, he likely has gone from thinking 'I might need a secondary at some point', to KNOWING 'if I had a secondary, I wouldn't have died there.'

You are likely the catalyst for his becoming a better player. Maybe next time he'll pistol you and you'll never get the chance to wonder this.

 

[M_P]

...so does a sniper HAVE to carry a secondary or does it depend on the site?

Depends on the site but the vast majority of sites have MEDs so it's common sense to carry one

 

[NH Shooter]

I love seeing threads like this. People being genuinely honourable in this our game of honour. I personally don't put much stead in the bang kill rule, I think it's a cop-out and I'd rather everyone be prepared to take a few nasty dings every now and again; especially when AEG FPS limits and general safety rules mean you should be adequately protected from lasting harm anyway.

On the one hand you probably should have taken the hit to be truly sporting - as people have said, if he totally had you then it was his good courtesy that got him killed, which sucks for him.. BUT:

Snipers have MEDs. Even on a no-bang-kill site, airsoft snipers don't get the luxury of playing doctor ('Injecting' you). If the man plays sniper - and clearly knows his MEDS hence this situation - then he should also know he needs a pistol or such for CQC work. What happened here is a learning experience for him, he likely has gone from thinking 'I might need a secondary at some point', to KNOWING 'if I had a secondary, I wouldn't have died there.'

You are likely the catalyst for his becoming a better player. Maybe next time he'll pistol you and you'll never get the chance to wonder this.

Or he thought "sod this med stuff... I tried being reasonable and look where that got me..." and the next guy gets a close shot.

The "not taking the hit" is debatable... But the "that doesn't count, this does. Click" is a bit of a dick move... I can be convinced that "not taking that without a sidearm" is possibly reasonable... Although if you want a mele weapon, the guy had a sniper rifle shaped club... But to call technicality, then fire back... What are we? 8 years old? Our site were not meant to fire below a few m with pistols, or rifles... If someone puts one to my chest and calls it... That was inside the med... Do I refuse to take it? No... Cus he had me.

I had one last time... Guy got around the corner to me on a building exterior, put his pistol, blind, Round the corner... And called it. Below med AND blind firing? But he had me... Take the hit! He could have, just as easily, stepped out 1 meter and shot me in the face.

 

[rusty1109]

So basically sportsmanship wise I should have taken the hit, I would agree with that in principle.

However I'm always uneasy about taking any hit unless the opponent has actually hit me, you only have to watch this video from 1:06 to see why:

The possibility of getting the dead mans click or missing is always there.

Also I would say that if you want an extra 150 fps or so then you should be aware that when entering dense cover you're probably not going to be able to deal with a situation like the one we found ourselves in unless you have a secondary..... fair trade in my books.

I wonder what peoples thoughts are on a situation where a sniper with his rifle up and no secondary or with his secondary stowed and a non sniper meet round a corner, usually you'd probably both fire and take a hit but what about in this situation only one player can fire legally?

I would never ask a sniper who I had the drop on but who was just beyond the edge of my non sniper weapon range to take a hit, I would have to advance on him further and risk being spotted / heard.

 

[Sitting Duck]

You are alright in my book

sniper could have done many things or nothing and still been alive

you feel a little uneasy about this situation but we all have to make instant decisions

even the most honest players may have failed to call a soft hit from enemy crap gun

as they sprint through shrubs etc... - feeling bushes and branches but not always a

light tap from a bb whilst doing so

I said about sniper could of shot from a "safer" range near the end of MED as we all know

in real life in the heat of moment all of us have fired at closer distance than we should of

$hit happens - and it wrong to say this should of happened or that - in a split second

we have to make a decision - if we call a hit we can't think ergh no wait that might be a rebound shot

I know in paintball I called myself out a few times and saw no proper mark on me - could that be a drop

from paintball hitting wall - too late I called it

I know hand on heart I have not always called a hit - I looked round and didn't see anyone at first

then they yell at me - ok soz good shot but I do try my best to play fair

Bet next week the boot is on the other foot and you end up in a similar situation - it happens

You both have some integrity - he took hit and you feel a little uneasy

more players like you two is what sport needs

Bet you next time he will just shoot you in the ar$e at 25m though

 

[Mack]

Personally I would have taken it. The whole reason I got into airsoft rather than paintball is the realisim. Realistic weapons, realistic scenarios, the gear and tactics we try to emulate. In real life guns don't run on batteries or vent gas when it's cold

I know other people play for different reasons so really both sides have a point.

 

[Nickona]

Personally I would have taken it. The whole reason I got into airsoft rather than paintball is the realisim. Realistic weapons, realistic scenarios, the gear and tactics we try to emulate. In real life guns don't run on batteries or vent gas when it's cold

So much this, more on a general point

 

[Deej]

Haha very true NH Shooter! I suppose he could go both ways! Though the fact he took the hit from Rusty's reaction suggests he has at least a grain of honour in him. To walk away without challenging the play speaks of a calm mature player, too - I would certainly have voiced complaint to Rusty before going to respawn, myself!

Besides, ignoring MEDs is a pretty big infraction - hopefully if he does elect to go that way he'll be reprimanded or worse for the irresponsible play.

While I certainly agree that the realism aspect provides the lion's share of Airsoft's drawing power (particularly over it's p-word competitor), I think we can all be guilty from time to time of using 'but realism' as a catch-all reason/excuse/stance. For example some players carry a knife for melee kills, whereas others just close the distance and place a hand on the victim claiming 'knife!'. Not taking the kill because 'you don't have a knife' would be extremely petty, right? I've had guys hating on me for the way I use my P90, and true enough the 5.7 round just wouldn't do the distance job that my airsoft gat is pretending it would, but I love my gun and play how I play!

Ultimately I absolutely do not disagree with the general consensus that taking the hit would probably have been the more "right" move, but I'm coming more from a sportsmanship/gameplay angle than a realism one. We're all just playing soldiers and no doubt for wildly different reasons - 'codsofters' vs milsimmers vs your average skirmisher-for-fun, even grandpa reliving the glory days romping with the young guns - so whatever needs to be the rule in order to foster fair, balanced gameplay, so be it!

I'm acutely aware that this is something of a thread-jack attempt, so feel free to ignore it but on a similar note I'd be interested to hear some opinions: I once bangkilled a guy who refused to take the hit because my gun was jammed. It was, and the whole field knew it (I had no replacement so I spent the day being a dumbass trying to get into bang range) so he just ignored me and carried on. I took my hit and walked, no hassle, but on the gameplay-vs-realism scale where do you guys land on that one?

I guess in theory it opens the door for people to bangkill without magazines loaded or the like, but without an alternate weapon my only options were to operate how I did or simply sit out.

 

[Nickona]

For example some players carry a knife for melee kills, whereas others just close the distance and place a hand on the victim claiming 'knife!'. Not taking the kill because 'you don't have a knife' would be extremely petty, right?

Interesting point here.. the question is really where do you draw the line..

Now a lot of the time a tap on the shoulder is allowed as you have a gun so its a nicer way of not hitting people but I've entered rooms and been able to shoot with one have on the rifle while I take the other and "knife kill" a guy. no in reality unless I was holding a knife on my handguard there is no way I could have achieved that kill but under airsoft its perfectly okay.

I think a lot depends on the site and what kind of people usually play at the site. If its one where theres usually a lot of new players then a tap on the shoulder is fine but at sites who play a bit more seriously and certainly milsims only knives should be allowed to take knife kills

On your last point I can sympathise with guns going half way through games and then not being able to do a lot. If I were you I would have tried to knife people but obviously thats more difficult. I normally take the realism route of it but still recognising the fact airsoft guns are far more unpredictable than real guns, if for the MED situation I would take it, but if someones mag is out of their gun then I wouldn't

 

[CaptainSwoop]

I've had guys hating on me for the way I use my P90, and true enough the 5.7 round just wouldn't do the distance job that my airsoft gat is pretending it would, but I love my gun and play how I play!

What?

 

[Deej]

Hahaha when I read it back I guaranteed myself someone would jump on that. Scale up the distances, factor in real rounds. Get properly 'Real'

I mean in reality a warfighter in a marksman role would not select a P90 as a sniper weapon. The weapon - and the round it was designed to fire, which of course came first - is for personal defence, for vehicle crew and artillery operators (the round also has many characteristics which make it wonderful for wetworks/special forces, as I understand it). If we're talking realism to the nth degree, I get why a guy who's forcing himself to carry a four-foot sniper weapon is pissed that I'm getting the same range and role out of a weapon no longer than my forearm (though folk tend to just complain that she's ugly! . ) which would be, in reality, throwing nerf darts at that distance in comparison to the larger, heaver or more range-oriented rounds you would generally feed a sniper weapon. In that light, I have an 'unrealistic advantage' over someone just because he likes how it feels to carry a bigger more realistically-utilised weapon.

So re: what? It was a reinforcement to the point I was making in my original post. Some aspects of airsoft put us in the uncomfortable position of choosing between realism and better gameplay. I tend to err towards gameplay, at least in your average skirmish environment, for accessibility's sake. The obvious exception being the unsafe, like firing a high-fps gat under MEDs.

 

[Nickona]

Deej is your P90 set up as a DMR, as in +350fps?

Also why do you keep saying gat?

 

[jcheeseright]

I personally side 100% with the OP here, if the sniper is inside MED then he cannot fire for reasons of safety, fair enough. I'm not going to EVER take a 'bang' kill from someone more than 5 metres away, certainly not 30 metres. There's absolutely zero guarantee he'd have hit his target at that range; I have seen some properly speshul shooting from airsofters who are shouting 'take your hits' while the overhopping BBs are chopping through leaves 5metres above me.

If you want to play the sniper role in airsoft (which is a game, with rules) then you either accept that you're unable to engage within 30 metres or you buy a secondary weapon without an MED.

Personally I disagree with the bang rule entirely and believe it's a crossover from the states where they play with much higher FPS limits than the UK. I regularly play CQB in a site where the longest possible sightline is about 20 metres and engagements often happen at corners with distances less than 2-3 metres; does anyone complain about 'bang kills' etc, no, they don't. Because 328-350 FPS isn't dangerous even at point blank, it just stings a bit.

The bang rule is bullshit and common courtesy is what's required, if you're up close clearly it's not cool to light someone up on full auto, but to point your gun at them and say "bang bang" is just sad, we're not playing cowboys and indians in a primary school playground.