Bringing your own replica to the UK

[Misterius]

[SIZE=12pt]Hi Fellow Players[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I'm looking for a help in this forum. I know you guys are not layers, but it seems like you have a fair share of knowledge.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Straight to the case. I own lovely G&G Predator in Poland for over 2 years and I would like to bring it to UK.  [/SIZE]I’m aware of UK restrictions  and requirements for RIF’s (370 FPS and 1.3 Joule). I do not have UKARA defence.  I already skirmisher twice on 2 different sites and I could prove it with tickets.  No friends with UKARA :C

[SIZE=12pt]I spoke with a couple of people on different forums, and people divide into 2 groups.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Group 1[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]In order to import the RIF I need to have valid defence preferable UKARA because it is most recognizable defence by Border Force and Customs. However, I can use other defences. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]As I do not have any defence I thought I could apply for UKASA membership or JUST COS. There is as well MVT, but it would be hard for me to prove that I have participated in any re-enactment event. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Group 2[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I do not need UKARA because I’m not buying a gun. I already OWN the RIF and I can send it to UK by post and fulfilling the right forms. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]One guy even sent me the form (Form is attached below). However, it seems like I still need to provide UKARA on this form.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]2x However VCRA section 36  [/SIZE]1b says “A person is guilty of an offence if—

he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.”

In my understanding that already disqualify group 2 because I would need defence. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Questions:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Does anyone have any experience and could recommend something ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Does UKASA is recognizable by border force ? I believe it should be because it is valid defence for Taiwan Gun which is in Poland and they need to send it somehow to customers. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There is another option to changing my RIF to IF but I couldn’t find much advice about this action. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Could I paint my RIF into IF and then send it to UK without problem ? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Do I need to have defence to import IF’s ?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I summon :[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]@Tommikka[/SIZE]

@Rogerborg

I would like to say special thanks to you guys. You put amazing effort in this forum, and it is a big help for newbies like me. 

[SIZE=12pt]Thanks for your help. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

Firearm_fax_Jo_Rossitor.doc

 

[Rogerborg]

Hello, and I'm afraid the honest answer is going to be "We don't know" because this exact same question gets asked over and over, but the people who ask it never provide an answer once they've succeeded or failed.  Even if they did, it will come down to the Border Force agent who actually handles your RIF.  I have asked Border Force how many UKARA checks they perform, and they said that they do not hold that information as each agent handles their own cases, without a central record.

What I will say is:

JUST COS is not  a defence.  It is a scheme created by one retailer in order to give the appearance of a defence.  Some other retailers now accept it, but they must be aware that cosplay is not one of the listed defences.  The closest valid defence is theatrical purposes, but that's not what the (alleged) insurance covers.  Of course, you may get lucky, and Border Force may not know that.

UKASA, like UKARA, requires you to be a member of an airsoft site.  Since most sites use the UKARA rules (at least 3 games, at least 2 months / 8 weeks) before they will offer you membership, I cannot see how UKASA helps you out here.  Now, they may not actually really check site membership, but it will cost you £30 to find out.  We do not know if Border Force are familiar with UKASA, but in any case the defence is that intend to use the RIF for airsoft activities, which is shown by site membership, not whether that membership is then recorded elsewhere, e.g. UKARA or UKASA.

Military Vehicle Trust is the only scheme that I'm aware of that doesn't require evidence of activities, and which actually provides some evidence of a defence, i.e. historic reenactment.  However, whether Border Force accept that for a modern imitation like the G&G Predator is again unknown.  They shouldn't, because the defence you'd be claiming clearly doesn't apply to that replica. And you don't actually have that defence, which might become an issue if the police come knocking at your door wanting to know why you tried to import a realistic imitation firearm, and you suddenly change your story.

Any of them might work though, it really will come down to how lucky you are.  If you're really lucky, Border Force might even accept the evidence that you have played airsoft - and ideally receipts for future booking - as sufficient evidence. It would be a huge gamble though, given that it could end up with the RIF being destroyed and/or you being investigated.

I would suggest that the safest option is to turn the Predator into a non-realistic imitation, by painting at least half of it (e.g. stock and handguard) in a bright colour.  Airsoft retailers in the EU do send painted guns into the UK, and historically this was never a problem. Although again, Border Force may change their mind at any time.  Since the VCRA does not mention durability, you could consider using paint that can be removed relatively easily, like Plasti-Dip.  If you do this, I would label it clearly and honestly inside the packaging as a "non realistic imitation firearm" and "1.1J airsoft non-firearm" (or whatever energy level you want to claim for it).  You could even disassemble it in order to make it clear to any inspection that it's not a real firearm.

I'm sorry that we don't have answers to this, I realise it must be very frustrating that the process is so unclear and risky.

 

[ak2m4]

@Misterius Please let us know what you decide.  When are you arriving in the UK?

 

[Rogerborg]

When are you arriving in the UK?

Looks like he's already here and has played twice.  I'd have no doubt that he really is a regular airsoft player. The issue is proving that to whatever fun sponge is warming the desk at Border Force when his Predator enters the UK.

 

[Johndaniel4863]

Just my 2 pence...if it came across my desk at work it would get detained and not seized  under CEMA legislation until the OP provided his defence to as a regular skirmisher who plays at a legitimate insured site and can show evidence of his defence as a skirmisher. If no evidence is provided then the rif would be seized by me.

 

[Rogerborg]

if it came across my desk at work

From your other recent post, can we infer that this isn't a hypothetical desk?

the rif would be seized by me.

I knew it.

Can you imagine what sort of amazing shooting range they must have in the basement at Border Force by now?

 

[Johndaniel4863]

@Rogerborg that would be after i have attempted to confirm a defence under VCRA....seizing and destruction would incur alot of paperwork and time on my part......which is time i could be using for other things like searching my next new rifle or accessory ? 

 

[Samurai]

When I was in the same situation I replaced more than 50% of the external parts of one of my guns (stock, foregrip and grip of a G3) with bright green painted ones, partly disassembled it, and got it posted here. As this is importing, so it's an offence to import a RIF (Group 2 is wrong).

Then when I got my defence, I imported all my stuff and changed the green parts back. All nice and legal.

 

[Johndaniel4863]

Importing a rif without a defence is an offence under Section 49 (improper importation) Customs Excise Managament Act 1979 as rifs are defined as a prohibited and restricted item by virtue of Section 36 VCRA therefore liable to seizure under Section 139 (General power of seizure) CEMA 1979.

The spanner in the works is if you have a valid defence under Section 37 VCRA as granted by the secretary of state (skirmisher) then the above prohibition and rstriction doesnt apply, however the officer 99.9% of the time wont know this part of the legislation.

When goods are seized a BOR156/BOR162 should be issued which is a warning letter and a receipt for goods or a General Notice Of Seizure will be issued together with a notice 1a and Notice 12. The Notice 12 explains the right of appeal and gives a template of the letter that can be sent to Borderforce to appeal the seizure.

Everyone has a right of appeal even when they are blatantly breaking the rules and it progresses to what is called a condemnation hearing at a magistrates court where a magistrate decides on the balance of probability if the seizure was right.

If Borderforce are ruled as being wrong then the goods (or value) are returned or the goods are condemned and the importer pays legal costs.

If i was to send a rif through the border i would accompany it with relevant evidence of my defence and a copy of the legislation to back me up or include it all in the box if i was to have it sent unaccompanied.

But as i said most officers dont know the intricacies of airsofting/VCRA and dont see firearms in any form except on telly so will assume everything is a real firearm so default to seizure.

If anyone has any specific questions let me know  

 

[Rogerborg]

a valid defence under Section 37 VCRA as granted by the secretary of state (skirmisher)

Well, maybe.  The only name on our very tenuous defence is "Sam Hardy" in Circular 031 / 2007.  What hath been given by a rando can be taken away by a rando.

Thanks, @Johndaniel4863, it's good to get a view from inside.  Has there been a change in policy, or is it more a case of Border Force just enforcing the existing policy now?  We can't control what foreign sellers actually do, and I doubt they're going to do more than put a UKARA on the packaging.  It seems like this just isn't cutting it any more (if it ever did), and that if RIFs are spotted (and they might not be), that we're likely to have to go through the whole back-and-forth process.  Is that a fair assessment?

I mean, is there really any point in having a UKARA number put on the package now?  I'm minded to wonder if doing so is making it more likely to be spotted and pounced on.

 

[Misterius]

I completely forgot about the post. Thanks for all the information you provided. I still haven't imported it because I'm thinking about buying a different replica here in UK.

 Alternately, I found some local lads who would help me out with UKARA problem.  

 

[Johndaniel4863]

@Rogerborg the only parts that Borderforce would enforce would be Section 36 VCRA as that creates a prohibition of importing a RIF which can then be enforced under CEMA 1979 as we would enforce the import offence not the possesion offence if that makes sense?

My understanding of the circular is it covers about air weapons and other effects that VCRA could have on the Firearms Act 1968 such as the example it gives where it talks about Imitation Firearms (covered in FA 68 legislation) and Realistic Imitation Firearms which arent defined in FA 68 but are in the VCRA and how VCRA definition of RIF cant be used as defence as its RIF not an IF for example commiting an offence under Section 16 FA68 (make use of a firearm or imitation firearm) and that for intents and purposes of some offences RIF and IF can be the same in law

Sam wont have any effect on us and our defences only the Secretary of State can remove our defences in legislation

 

[SquashyTundra6]

I have had positive experiences bringing RIFs across borders by road/ ferry from Europe… Even through Germany I had no issues with Police and that’s where I was warned would be the most difficult country for travelling with a RIF. At both sides the ferry customs guards just opened the case, asked what it was for and then closed it back up and waved me on - I’d imagine if it’s that easy to bring the RIF on the ferry it should be fine by other methods. I’ve also never had any orders stopped from the likes of Taiwan Gun etc. so I can’t really see posting it being a problem either

As long as you are honest and conform to the laws it should be okay. 

 

[Rogerborg]

Thanks, it's good to hear that it's do-able in person.  Were you asked to show any evidence of a defence on entry to the UK?

I’ve also never had any orders stopped from the likes of Taiwan Gun etc

In 2021/2022?

 

[SquashyTundra6]

Thanks, it's good to hear that it's do-able in person.  Were you asked to show any evidence of a defence on entry to the UK?

In 2021/2022?

Nothing at all, verbal confirmation that it is a personally owned airsoft replica and that I am a regular player was all they needed. Was very simple thankfully

and yes, my last tg order was just a few weeks back. Ordered a RIF and a pile of mid caps.  Literally had “Taiwan Gun” tape plastered over the box, and they didn’t put my UKARA defence on the packaging and even then UK customs didn’t stop it at all. 

 

[Rogerborg]

<you-lucky-lucky-bastard.gif>

Great to hear common sense being applied at the border, although it looks like you really were just lucky on the TaiwanGun package.

 

[typefish]

Great to hear common sense being applied at the border, although it looks like you really were just lucky on the TaiwanGun package.

From what I've been hearing back from people who have personally imported their RIFs into the UK (or in a shipping container), generally it's a trouble free experience.

Generally the issue is only when it's sent as a parcel.

 

[DrAlexanderTobacco]

@Johndaniel4863I've got a Q for you if that's alright - quite a lot of the time here users will get parcels trapped in parcel hell. They'll know customs have held the package back from delivery, but won't know:

- Which office it's in

- Which officer is dealing with the case

- Which number to call

- What info is outstanding that they haven't provided

Do you have any advice for situations like that?

 

[typefish]

Everyone has a right of appeal even when they are blatantly breaking the rules and it progresses to what is called a condemnation hearing at a magistrates court where a magistrate decides on the balance of probability if the seizure was right.

If Borderforce are ruled as being wrong then the goods (or value) are returned or the goods are condemned and the importer pays legal costs.

To add to this, I haven't heard of any legitimate importation of RIFs going as far as needing discussion at a magistrates court, normally when someone with a bit of knowledge within BF confirms the defence (either UKARA or a skirmisher's diary) it's released.

If anyone knows of anything that has gone that far however, I'd be interested in hearing more about it!