Being scammed?

[Yoshi]

Hi folks really need some help and opinions on this one.

I am pretty new to airsoft and was setting up to buy my first gun so I got in contact with a shop local to me. Its not all that well known but the site I play at is very well known and has a good rep and he runs a stall there on game days so I assume that the guy running the shop must have a good reputation to be allowed to run a stall on the site.

I contact the shop on facebook to get a quote on a gun and he replies and tells me to add his personal account so its easier to message. He tells me the gun I am asking about is no good and he doesnt sell it. So after a lot of back and forth and him offering me guns I know are a lot worse than the one I originally wanted I settled on another gun that I was happy with. He had initially quoted me 250 for the gun he was trying to sell me (this is the one i didnt want) including 3 mid caps. He then quoted me 210 for the gun I did want. (He also agrees to let me pay the gun up if I pay a deposit of 150 but thats a separate issue).

So I go to the store with my 150 deposit and after a long chat I am ready to pay and leave, at this point he says I need to pay full price or I cant take it. At the time I didnt have the extra, I had already spent the money I had put away on other stuff since he said I could pay it up. So I pay the deposit anyway so he will hold onto it for me and i said i will be back in a couple of weeks to pay the rest.

I go back a few weeks later to pay the rest and pick up the gun. At this point hes asking for 100. This takes it to now 250, as I said he quoted me 210 however I assumed the extra was to cover the mags and didnt really think much of it. I pay the money and he then tells me he doesnt have the mags in and he would give me them at the site at the next game day. So next game day comes and I go to the stall and he doesnt have them. Two more game days have passed and still nothing. So I messaged him tonight asking if the mags were in yet and he asks me what it was I wanted, I remind him its 3 mid caps and he replies with "Ok will get the price and message you later".

Now I like to see the best in people and am generally quite trusting, but surly this guy is just taking the p*ss now?

 

[Sacarathe]

Have you got UKARA, if not why not?

 

[Yoshi]

Have you got UKARA, if not why not?

No I dont. The gun is 2 tone. Still waiting out my 2 months.

 

[Sitting Duck]

what is the gun may I ask ???

Now you "should" have a copy of these messages somewhere on FB MSG Txt Email or something

Collect - print out what & how it was worded to enforce what kind of contractual agreement you & he committed to

Otherwise it will be his word against yours to say £250 was for gun only

rather than £250 inc 3 mags

blah blah blah

FFS - wish people would get stuff sorted 101% & please tell me this payment wasn't in cash with no receipts or stuff

trust us - learning the hard way about consumer rights should be avoided if at all possible

if you are 18+ then me personally I would of held off buying a £210-£250 2-tone for a few months and gone for a cheap starter

but anyway - try and see what stuff you got in msg/email to strengthen your case & backup your agreement with him

he might come out with some ol' bollox that £40 was for 2-toning the £210 gun - jeez

so see if all that price list was covered - some retailers offer free 2-tone (not many but my own site does 2-tone free)

edit - bit weird but one minute they say free 2-tone in 5 days

& on banner they say it is £1 ????

WTF - £1 bastids

http://www.tacticalairsoftshop.co.uk/

ok - I'm an easy going bloke - 50p final offer take it or leave it

 

[Yoshi]

what is the gun may I ask ???

Now you "should" have a copy of these messages somewhere on FB MSG Txt Email or something

Collect - print out what & how it was worded to enforce what kind of contractual agreement you & he committed to

Otherwise it will be his word against yours to say £250 was for gun only

rather than £250 inc 3 mags

blah blah blah

FFS - wish people would get stuff sorted 101% & please tell me this payment wasn't in cash with no receipts or stuff

trust us - learning the hard way about consumer rights should be avoided if at all possible

if you are 18+ then me personally I would of held off buying a £210-£250 2-tone for a few months and gone for a cheap starter

but anyway - try and see what stuff you got in msg/email to strengthen your case & backup your agreement with him

he might come out with some ol' bollox that £40 was for 2-toning the £210 gun - jeez

so see if all that price list was covered - some retailers offer free 2-tone (not many but my own site does 2-tone free)

edit - bit weird but one minute they say free 2-tone in 5 days

& on banner they say it is £1 ????

WTF - £1 bastids

http://www.tacticalairsoftshop.co.uk/

ok - I'm an easy going bloke - 50p final offer take it or leave it

The guns a cyma m14 delta. He ordered it in black then painted it, but the way he worded it was as if that was included in the price.

 

[Sitting Duck]

blimey - most people quote all my crap as:

"stuff" or -snip- otherwise the whole sites bandwidth doubles up and everything slows right down.....

reason I asked about gun in case I had a spare mag - alas soz not got one of those I'm afraid

right, see how it appears to read and gather/print out any crap to backup your agreement

you mean this:

http://www.onlybbguns.co.uk/211008-cyma-cm032-m14-delta-aeg.html#.WDjKTtSLSt8

RC10 would of got 10% off of that as well so could of got it for £144 delivered I'm afraid

Damn - that is f*cking cheap already toned in UK

if you waited for ukara:

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric/cm-032-dmr-black-cm?from=listing&campaign-id=19

 

[Yoshi]

Yeah that's the one. I do feel stupid as I also realised I over payed by a good bit however I'm chocking that down as a learning experience. I just feel he's chancing it now and taking the piss.

 

[Yoshi]

The problem I have is I don't want to cause a situation either cos as I say he runs the shop on the site I play at and don't want an atmosphere, I need to see him every 2 weeks. If it wasn't for that I would have already told him where to go. I guess this is the downside to buying local. I'm not going to make this mistake again.

 

[Sitting Duck]

The problem I have is I don't want to cause a situation either cos as I say he runs the shop on the site I play at and don't want an atmosphere, I need to see him every 2 weeks. If it wasn't for that I would have already told him where to go. I guess this is the downside to buying local. I'm not going to make this mistake again.

Don't beat yourself up about it m8

Considering the crap I bought at way over inflated prices for absolute crap from JBBG

I lost a f*cking lot more than you

$hit happens as they say - look go through/forward what stuff you got to pc or get a hard copy of all msg's

it is a lot harder for anybody to argue this or that when it is in black n white hard copy......

remind him this n that in a polite but firm way and if he still hasn't got the mags then ask for partial refund

if he says any crap then again refer him to the terms & conditions of the agreement in print

suffice to say his continual business from you will be short lived but for now try to get a resolution on this present matter

Any crap then please enlighten us to any problems as good retailers are praised

but not so good customer service we all need to be made aware of

yes - we are all being squeezed atm but there should still be a level of integrity when conducting business all the same

best deal I can find is this:

http://www.airsoftsupplydrop.co.uk/store/king-arms-m14-110rds-mid-cap-airsoft-magazine-box-set.html

not 100% sure if they are compatible but think cyma m14 is TM m14 compatible

or you might be looking at getting another high cap or two from this place - they also sell via amazon uk

think some other places around sell mags in low/mid/high cap capacity but depends if they are in stock

hope you can get this matter resolved easily & quickly without too much fuss

 

[Yoshi]

Don't beat yourself up about it m8

Considering the crap I bought at way over inflated prices for absolute crap from JBBG

I lost a f*cking lot more than you

$hit happens as they say - look go through/forward what stuff you got to pc or get a hard copy of all msg's

it is a lot harder for anybody to argue this or that when it is in black n white hard copy......

remind him this n that in a polite but firm way and if he still hasn't got the mags then ask for partial refund

if he says any crap then again refer him to the terms & conditions of the agreement in print

suffice to say his continual business from you will be short lived but for now try to get a resolution on this present matter

Any crap then please enlighten us to any problems as good retailers are praised

but not so good customer service we all need to be made aware of

yes - we are all being squeezed atm but there should still be a level of integrity when conducting business all the same

best deal I can find is this:

http://www.airsoftsupplydrop.co.uk/store/king-arms-m14-110rds-mid-cap-airsoft-magazine-box-set.html

not 100% sure if they are compatible but think cyma m14 is TM m14 compatible

or you might be looking at getting another high cap or two from this place - they also sell via amazon uk

think some other places around sell mags in low/mid/high cap capacity but depends if they are in stock

hope you can get this matter resolved easily & quickly without too much fuss

Thanks for the advice mate. Problem I have is the receipt doesn't exclusively say anything about mags. It's a hand written receipt on one of those pads that copies through. The fact he quoted me 210 then changed it to 250 is the only real proof I have. To be honest he was a nightmare to get a straight answer from in the first place and constantly changed or denied what he had said. I think I'll just cut my losses and just not deal with him again. It's a shame as he's the on site shop so is handy but if he's going to fleece me then it's better just staying away.

 

[Sacarathe]

Thanks for the advice mate. Problem I have is the receipt doesn't exclusively say anything about mags. It's a hand written receipt on one of those pads that copies through. The fact he quoted me 210 then changed it to 250 is the only real proof I have. To be honest he was a nightmare to get a straight answer from in the first place and constantly changed or denied what he had said. I think I'll just cut my losses and just not deal with him again. It's a shame as he's the on site shop so is handy but if he's going to fleece me then it's better just staying away.

Please name and shame. Ripping people off is wrong, it's worse when it's people new to the hobby.

 

[Yoshi]

Please name and shame. Ripping people off is wrong, it's worse when it's people new to the hobby.

I'll hold off on naming and shaming just now, I want to put the feelers out and see if anyone else has had any similar issues with him first.

 

[Infanteer]

This is absolute crap mate. It sounds as though he is taking you for a ride, I was getting pissed off reading what you wrote and it doesn't even affect me lol.

Definitely shop around in the future, doesn't hurt to ask on the forum if you are getting a good deal. There are guys that will probably be able to find you a better one on occasion.
I'd present the info Duck gave you about the other retailer and tell the guy that you believe he is taking you for a ride. If you already agreed on the price than in my opinion you should

pay it but if he did say he'd include the magazines than he should offer his end of the bargain, use the info as leverage. I always strive to keep my word but also try to get everything in writing, saying that if someone renegs on their end of the deal I have no problem shafting them after giving them the benefit of the doubt to try to fix it. Just being honest, I am not a doormat. Duck gave you great advice on receipts etc, I hope you got them but it sounds like you have a paper trail of some sort albeit not perfect via facebook.

Sadly, you have paid a deposit and i am not confident that you will get it back, still it may be a bargaining chip in your negotiations although I am again inclined to think this will probably not be the case. After you show him that you feel you are overpaying, he may think this is going to be too hard and refund you, that would be a good scenario.

As for not causing a scene I get where you are coming from with that but in situations like this the other party relies on you to act with discretion to avoid discomfort, humiliation etc so that they can shaft you. It wouldn't bother me, I'd kick off but then I don't really care what the vast majority of people think when I believe I have been slighted. I would tell him in no uncertain terms that you will take the matter further if he does not fulfill his end of the bargain and that he doesn't want to play this game because he will be seeing you every two weeks. Turn that around on him, from a negative to a postive because I guarantee he will experience the same arkwardness you are worried about if he knows he is guilty of pulling the wool over your eyes unless he is a heartless a hole, in which case stuff him. This will make him question the potential impact on his business through word of mouth advertising, being reviewed online etc and maybe he will decide that there could be a detrimental impact if he keeps taking the piss. Short of this, I would then lodge a complaint with the site, they have a duty of care to any player there in a captive audience situation to be protected against dodgy retailers on their premises. I am not very familiar with consumer law in the UK but if it got to that point I'd also be exploring those options if I were you.

 

[Sacarathe]

I doubt there is an agreement if the seller has misrepresented what sounds like a personal sale as one of business. OP believes he is dealing with a shop, but the dickish behaviour of the other party would tend to indicate they might believe they're dealing as an individual.

 

[karl_liverpool]

It does sound like he switched it from a business sale by the contact on personal Facebook. But as he still represents the shop he runs at the site and the site has a deal with him to be there. I would mention it to the site owners if you don't get anywhere with him. Never know how many people he has turned over like that in past who haven't said anything.

 

[Yoshi]

In terms of the overpaying thing, I cant do anything about that now as I have already used the gun, I was stupid about it but have learned a lesson. I would post up the conversation but don't want to put names up online. All transactions were done in his shop (which by the way he was never in, I had to arrange a time for him to be there for any transaction to take place) and he issued a receipt so from my point of view it was a business sale.

I will mention it to the owners once I have played there a bit longer so my word is actually worth something to them. The site pride themselves on the way they treat new players so if they were to find out they shop was run being run this way I'm pretty sure they would not be too pleased.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

I think you need to name and shame this shop.

Every person has a duty to prevent others being scammed and the next person to fall for it could be prevented by you standing up and doing something about it.

While if this story is true you have my sympathy you don't have my respect unless you help make sure others in the community dont fall foul of this person.

Man up and name them.

 

[Yoshi]

I think you need to name and shame this shop.

Every person has a duty to prevent others being scammed and the next person to fall for it could be prevented by you standing up and doing something about it.

While if this story is true you have my sympathy you don't have my respect unless you help make sure others in the community dont fall foul of this person.

Man up and name them.

This is true however I don't see anyone on here having any dealings with the shop as they don't trade online or by post (in reflection that is probably another red flag) so at this moment don't see the need to post a name. Like I said in a previous post I'll put the feelers out and see if anyone else has had an issue with them and if so I'll put the name up.

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

The simple fact is that they do trade and for all you know some people on here might use the same site.

By the time you have asked around some other poor sucker might be duped.

 

[Sacarathe]

I'll hold off on naming and shaming just now, I want to put the feelers out and see if anyone else has had any similar issues with him first.

Why does that matter? Was part of your agreement with him that if he later reneged and you 'named and shamed him' that would alleviate his obligations under your agreement. I don't understand why so many people hold this view, an agreement can't be changed later no matter how much of a dick either party is.

I feel for you though, particularly since the whole "guns" thing make it very easy for people to be taken advantage of, the number of people that don't realise how 'not small' airsoft is, and how many retailers there are is huge.