Airsoft gun for home defence

[proffrink]

Rehabilitative prison in the UK is actually some of the worst in Europe - as are prison conditions. Also, lest we forget the US is the most incarcerated nation on Earth - jailing people is very, very expensive; It costs the UK taxpayer ~£40k per year to keep someone in prison, so probation and rehabilitation don't seem so bad. I'd rather have someone contributing to the economy and having to show up once a week to demonstrate that they're saying on the right side of the law than behind bars (at least on convictions where repeat offending is low).

Two notable things about the US legal system: Firstly, inmates can and do build home appliances, light goods and larger electronics at a rate of pay that genuinely makes them competitive when compared to China - it's a massive conflict of interest that private prisons are going to have to come to terms with over the next few years. Secondly, the 'three strikes' rule means you can get a mandatory minimum of 10 years for shoplifting or smoking naughty things.

Comparing ourselves to a country like the States on judicial systems is a silly one; look to northern Europe if you want to see hard proof of how rehabilitative incarceration can actually work both socially and economically.

On topic though: Buy a cricket bat or just invest in a decent alarm system.

 

[Pricey-1991]

It shouldn't cost the tax payer 40k a year to keep someone inside that money could be put to much better use like paying for extra police or teacher or nurses.

 

[proffrink]

Correct. So your point is that prison is too cushy, but what's your alternative?

 

[Jedi_Master]

Correct. So your point is that prison is too cushy, but what's your alternative?

Bring back the death sentence, for top 5-10% of heinous criminals. Swift justice not waiting on death row for years either. Cuts down on overcrowding in prison freeing up cells, saves the tax payer, and most importantly the criminal never re-offends

 

[proffrink]

There are a handful of very famous wrongful executions in the UK that did a great deal in bringing about our abolishment of the death penalty. I think Wikipedia has a short record of each and they're a rather good read. In the US 'at least 39 executions are claimed to have been carried out in the U.S. in the face of evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt'. The point of death row is for a long and drawn out appeals process where due diligence must be done at every level of court. Getting rid of that isn't an option at all with our current legal system, so you're still looking at a lot of litigation and possibly years of having that criminal in prison before they can be killed.

It's the old conundrum of do you let 9 guilt people go free to save 1 innocent? I'd say yes, but it's a moral dilemma more than a fiscal one. Fortunately it's one that's interwoven into many legal systems (including our own), where you do have the right to appeal to a higher court (and if you look to the US then you see this happening a lot).

It should also be noted that approximately half of any inmates at any one time are serving sentences of less than 6 months - that's where the real overcrowding happens in my opinion: We have ample resources to keep dangerous people behind bars, but putting people away for dumb things like shoplifting or petty theft? It's expensive, and there are proven studies done in Scandinavian countries that prove bringing rates of re-offending can be done pro-actively. These countries didn't get to be some of the safest on the planet through executing 10% of their prison population - they've been playing the long game and addressed causation rather than just reacting to short-term issues.

 

[callumbagshaw]

I own several airsoft guns, and two .177 pstols (one is a dian wesson revolver, one is a government issue 1911), both look very real and both fire a C02 propelled metal BB (or pellet in the revolver's case).

If someone broke into my house, I would (illegally, as mentioned above) point one of those .177 pistols at them, not the airsoft rifles/pistols.

If they "called my bluff" (as also mentioned above), I'd shoot.

Several 177 metal bbs coming at 350-400FPS will put a man down I reckon, with a small likelyhood of extreme/fatal injury.

That's not my advice as that would be highly illegal, but it's what I'd do.

As the guy at the top said: a man's home is his castle, if you choose to defend it as I would, then you'd have to deal with whatever consequences the law would throw at you.

If this was America, you'd just kneecap 'em

 

[AJWest]

I own several airsoft guns, and two .177 pstols (one is a dian wesson revolver, one is a government issue 1911), both look very real and both fire a C02 propelled metal BB (or pellet in the revolver's case).

If someone broke into my house, I would (illegally, as mentioned above) point one of those .177 pistols at them, not the airsoft rifles/pistols.

If they "called my bluff" (as also mentioned above), I'd shoot.

Several 177 metal bbs coming at 350-400FPS will put a man down I reckon, with a small likelyhood of extreme/fatal injury.

That's not my advice as that would be highly illegal, but it's what I'd do.

As the guy at the top said: a man's home is his castle, if you choose to defend it as I would, then you'd have to deal with whatever consequences the law would throw at you.

If this was America, you'd just kneecap 'em

you make a good point, I also own airguns but they're rifles so very unwieldly and difficult to use around the house hence why I'd use a blunt tool, and as for the bluffing with an airgun its a bit different to an airsoft gun because airguns can actually do damage whereas if they called your bluff and you were holding just an airsoft gun and you decided to shoot anyway I have a feeling they'd probably just laugh at you, that might distract them enough for you to go for them if you were that way inclined though, who knows but there was a story in a paper a while back of some bloke using his air rifle to defend his home and the judges said it was perfectly reasonable I'll have a quick google and see if I can find it.

Edit: There we go didn't take long http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357901/Burglar-dialled-999-shot-air-rifle-breaking-family-home.html now this just goes to show some judges have got some common sense and that we aren't completely screwed when it comes to defending our homes

 

[Sacarathe]

Several 177 metal bbs coming at 350-400FPS will put a man down I reckon, with a small likelyhood of extreme/fatal injury.

Rubbish.

 

[jcheeseright]

I own several airsoft guns, and two .177 pstols (one is a dian wesson revolver, one is a government issue 1911), both look very real and both fire a C02 propelled metal BB (or pellet in the revolver's case).

If someone broke into my house, I would (illegally, as mentioned above) point one of those .177 pistols at them, not the airsoft rifles/pistols.

If they "called my bluff" (as also mentioned above), I'd shoot.

Several 177 metal bbs coming at 350-400FPS will put a man down I reckon, with a small likelyhood of extreme/fatal injury.

Not a chance, I'd be amazed if it'd get through a leather jacket let alone put a man down! A 4.5mm BB, even a steel one, doesn't weigh anything at all and 400fps is nothing. If you shot them in the face you could do some damage to their eyes and teeth but as for any real injury you've got to be kidding.

 

[MrMcG]

Not a chance, I'd be amazed if it'd get through a leather jacket let alone put a man down! A 4.5mm BB, even a steel one, doesn't weigh anything at all and 400fps is nothing. If you shot them in the face you could do some damage to their eyes and teeth but as for any real injury you've got to be kidding.

I think he may be referring to the .177 pellet which I had in a gamo pistol it could punch through my fence from my door circa 61ft so I wouldn't be surprised if it could puncture skin but I agree with you in terms of causing fatal injuries I doubt that unless aimed at head

I'll see if I can find the video of it I used to fire at an oil bottle for a car and it's first shot went clean through that and then through my fence at the end of garden so I promptly stopped

 

[jcheeseright]

That'd just piss someone off. Some people complain that 5.56 lacks stopping power, a .177 pellet isn't doing shit unless it's travelling at the speed of light.

 

[Comicbook hero]

Gents,

Things like this make me smile. The press have made a good job of convincing us all we will end up in prison if protect ourselves or others. Its crap.

Common law allows for you to use as much force as YOU deem reasonable at the time, to defend yourself or another. That reasonableness can be on a mistaken belief. For example you thought he had a knife and beat him with a handy metal sporting bat, but in fact it was a set of keys he had. Things like size, number of bad guys or the fact your kids are upstairs and you are the last line of defence all add up to increase what you deem reasonable.

Basically, you can do what you think was necessary. If that means you beat them till they are unconscious and no longer a threat as you felt that was the only option you had, then that is a defence. Police Officers regularly use this to defend their actions when utilising defensive skills (or even having fatally shot someone.)

Yes you may be interviewed under caution or worse case be arrested. But how many cases have actually gone to court in recent years since the law changed?

You can legally posses things like bats etc at home, they only become offensive weapons if you take them outside. Obviously prohibited articles like CS Gas or Tasers are illegal even in your house.

But more importantly, why would you grab your airsoft gun to confront someone breaking into your home? A bluff should only be an option when its the only option. Other than that I'd be grabbing for a knife in the kitchen, a bat, or as a last resort his neck!

Don't be afraid to defend yourselves or your families.

CBH

 

[proffrink]

It is man. I was kind of interested in people using the US as a justification for shooting people with BB guns, but we should really try to avoid politics in our toy guns forum.

 

[AJWest]

I think it's an absolute masterclass in going off topic, one of the best I have seen for a while

 

[proffrink]

Why don't we just go the whole-hog and start talking about that chap who wore that SS uniform to an airsoft game again?

 

[Pricey-1991]

I think it's just interesting to she what everyone's views on defending your home and families is. It has gone completely off topic though which is amazing

 

[Sacarathe]

I think it's just interesting to she what everyone's views on defending your home and families is. It has gone completely off topic though which is amazing

Did you see post #2? Forgot my "/thread" there.

! ! !

 

[Jedi_Master]

One advantage of having a dog, let's call him 'Rif', who will bark at strangers approaching the house and wake up the family inside. As far as Rif is concerned, anyone invading his pack's den is an immediate threat and will be dealt with appropriate force regardless of their age, size, sex, or creed. Meanwhile, I shall be phoning the local Constabulary and getting some doggie treats ready.

 

[callumbagshaw]

http://www.uttings.co.uk/p110013-crosman-destroyer-pellets-177-500-6-ds177/#.Vp4tWvmLR9A

Anyone who wants to do an experiment to see if one of these puts a man down or not can be my guest.

 

[callumbagshaw]

^ Correction, 6 of these.