Airsoft Action - National Shooters Show and VCRA

[Airsoft-Ed]

I still don't think it's worth altering anything.

You talk about parents getting the wrong impression, how are they getting any impression at all until they've either played the game or have been told about it? It's entirely down to the person who first tells someone new about the sport to ensure that the person they're talking to doesn't get the wrong impression, then it's down to site owners and players to ensure it doesn't come across as violent and aggressive, which is almost completely impossible when what we're doing is wearing replica military gear, shooting each other with replica military equipment.

It is what it is and people are always going to see it so. Trying to dress it up as something else is completely pointless.

People who want to play will, people who don't want to play won't, this debate seems to have become an ideas board for how to make non-airsofters want to play by showing them that it isn't dangerous or aggressive or violent. Don't change the game for the sake of people who aren't interested, that's just stupid.

How is changing what we, as a forum, refer to things as going to help change anything? The rest of the airsoft community will still refer to everything as we do at the moment, so there's just no point.

Plus, it's not like airsoft is a sport that gets a lot of media attention, I was 17 before I'd even heard about it. We don't need to tone anything down, or change anything, or make any appeals. It works the way it is, let's just continue letting it work.

If we ought to moan about anything at all, it's that ALL replica weapons are treated like airsoft ones are. You need a defence to have it in real colours, otherwise it has to be two tone. That should go for air guns, airsoft guns and deactivated real guns. As it really is ridiculous that replica paintball and air guns don't have to be two toned or hard to get hold of when they are without a doubt, far more damaging and dangerous.

Edit:

Also, you say that in paintball the guns are referred to as 'markers'? I think that's definitely something that people involved in paintballing say, people who don't go paintballing and just have the occasional talk about it with their mates, like me, always call them paintball guns.

So paintballers aren't gaining anything by calling their guns markers because paintballers are the only people that do it, non-paintballers call them paintball guns.

As you say, paintballers aren't in the same predicament, but I'm 100% certain it isn't down to the language used within, or with regard to the sport.

Airsofting will get bad press simply because it's the most realistic way to replicate war, the guns are more realistic, you can wear replica clothing as well because you aren't going to get paint all over it, the guns can go further and are more accurate, you can't see the projectiles as easily, protection isn't as big an issue etc etc.

To put it simply, we can't make people see airsofting as anything other than what it is. So what's the point trying? The only way to change how people view it, is to change it and if we change it, the people involved in it will change as well.

Edit 2:

Just saw this link on a page I liked a while ago on Facebook: http://www.airsoft-squared.com/post/371/ai...needs-your-help

If winning hearts and minds and giving the sport a positive voice to be heard by the media is what people think we need to push for, then this documentary project might be something worth looking at.

It's based in the UK so we could try and get the forum involved or something?

 

[Flynn567]

I found a lot of that to be narrow viewpoint Ed

Part of the reason why airsoft is lacking Media is because of the way we are looked at, Airsoft is new to the UK when compared with other sports, As such people are not used to seeing guys with gun running around the woods real or not and we are only talking about simple ideas that would help change the public face of airsoft in the uk and would have zero impact on airsofters

I think education is always the better way but we are talking about the masses, A person is educated, people are dumb panicky and too prone to knee jerk reactions

No one said anything about us on AFUK doing this by ourselves we are just talking about ideas if we wanted to move it forward we can look at doing things like talking it to other forums and youtube channels to get a wider view of what the airsoft community thinks and then there is The United Kingdom Airsoft Retailers Association

In your 1st post you made it sound like you were happy to do inaction and I dont think thats what you intended I hate the sound of it so much I find myself quoting better man than us ....

"Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it." -Mahatma Gandhi

As for the link you posted I love it, Some friends and I are starting a mix media group, we were thinking of doing some like this to go along with other projects next year if we get the funding for are new £2000 camera but I glad to see someone with more experience do it

Are you planing to make a new topic ask people to back it?

PS Sorry I took me so long to post back to you but I have bit of a migraine today

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

It's not so much that I'm narrow minded, I'm probably one of the most open minded people you'll ever meet. It's that I don't see a tremendous problem where the rest of you do. The system works, sure there's a few things that could be tweaked, but as I said, change can go either way and I figure we might as well make the most of it whilst it's working. Also, I've not met anyone yet who's had a negative or aggressive attitude towards airsofting once I've explained to them what it is.

About 90% of the people I mention it to have never even heard of it, meaning there is nothing at all to give anyone a negative opinion of it, most people just see it as paintballing but with better looking guns, which is hardly a negative impression.

If we're going to do anything, we ought to get airsofting noticed by the media in the first place, 'cos as it stands I think I've only ever seen airsofting in the paper once and on TV once. In the paper it was an article about how there's a tax difference between real firearms and airsoft guns and how the tax ought to be made them same because law enforcement and the military use these so called, 'toys' to train with. The argument was that the toys must be firearms as well if they're being used as stand-ins for actual ones.

That isn't really putting a positive or negative spin on anything.

The TV show was the gadget show and airsofting wasn't even the main focus, it was part of an adventure day and thus was hardly covered at all, but was shown as being part of something that was definitely a good and fun thing.

So there is no reason for people to gain a negative opinion, as we're all assuming people do. I also have no experience of talking to people who know of it and hate it for some reason other than them being a paintballer and no experience of people learning of it from me for the first time considering it bad in any way either.

Also there is the fact that in the grand scheme of things, airsofting is NEW, very new, especially in the UK. Maybe it just hasn't fully caught on yet.

In the link I posted it says on the first page that airsofting is one of the fastest growing sports in the UK, if not the fastest. We just need to give it another 5 years and everything will probably sort itself out.

Most of the people I talk to about it think it sounds sad or childish if anything, I just don't fully see this agenda you're proposing everyone has, it's all speculation.

I wasn't planning on making another thread, I'm a little too busy to keep tabs on it and I'm not really one for pushing this issue forward.

Feel free to make one yourself and use the link though.

 

[magicaldr]

Hi Ed,

I respect your thoughts, I didn't start the thread assuming (or wanting) everyone to agree Would not be much of a discussion if we did.

The VCRA was designed to kill off RIF sales totally in the UK, which would have seriously harmed airsoft as a sport. The government of the time did bow eventually and we got our exemption which remains a lifeline that keeps shops afloat. However I would still argue that this exemption is too tight and hurts us as a sport by hurting those who supply us.

We have all seen the impact on kids who cant buy RIF's, some live with it and play 2tone, others (like mine) are lucky their dad is an airsoft nut so has a UKARA reg for them and deep enough pockets to gift them RIF's. However many just give up, they don't like the 2 tone stigma and their camo being ruined by the bright green, orange or whatever rifle.

As was shown in the article its mad that guys who can buy real firearms cant buy an imitation of the same thing. Same problem for the police, armed forces, in fact people who could pass for real firearms if they could be bothered with the whole "safe" thing and rounds of police checks.

I don't think we can lobby for the removal of the VCRA, it does at least stop cheap nasty (£5) realistic stuff flying into hands of total yobs or kids and the risks that brings when armed response is round the corner in our rather paranoid society. (A whole other debate on if we should be so scared and why we are. When chances of seeing a 'real' assault rifle on the streets unless in the arms of the Police are extremely small)

I also dont think we should be pushing the VCRA onto our paintballing friends or air target / hunting cousins (who obviously use real weapons). VCRA is hurting us and we dont want to hurt them. They dont have the same curse of very cheap weapons and the rules for their sales are properly enforced, specialist shops and over 18 face to face with ID for an air-rifle, etc.

What we can do is lobby, yes it could get worse but do you really think the 'anti guns' groups are not lobbying so if we keep quiet it will all stay the same? On the lobby front I would suggest threads like this, followed by letters to larger groups, like UKARA body who do lobby, airsoft mags, local paper highlighting a local airsoft site and its positive work, local MP's, etc.

Lets makes some noise, but first lets see if we can agree what that noise should be at least in principle. Does 'gun' have too many negative bits of baggage? I think so, as I think we can change the VCRA for the better by opening up the ability for people to join UKARA via a law change on the exemptions. The mere act of registration and controlling points of sale would seem enough to achieve the basic control aim, while not achieving its other original aim of destroying RIF sales.

How do laws get changed, by lobbying your MP and by changing the perception in the public so the next survey the government (we have a new one now of course) runs is not so negative about this hobby / sport...

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Fair enough. I do support the ideas you're putting forward, I just don't feel anything will become of it.

Also, my MP is Nick Clegg... So y'know lol.

 

[Flynn567]

Ed - just to clarify, I wasn't calling you narrow minded (probably obvious but I just wanted to say it) truth be told I would like to continue this conversation in a pub after a good days airsofting

magicaldr - I understand what you mean about two-tones they can be seen coming form space but there is a range of transparent AEG's that dont have the same problem

Just to add that I am pro UKAKA even if it can be a pain in the you know what and I would like to see something like it for paintball ect not because I think airsoft is being singled out it's because I hate the idea of some git who has nothing to do with pro airsoft getting are kit banned in the UK

As for Nick Clegg, Ed you have my deepest sympathy

 

[TPI]

i resent that Flynn because Paintball is already in a Major Decline round the world not just here but i think we need to implement Coloured tips like the US even when registered and not on a Site

But let U18's when 16 Buy their own Rifle's but only Face to Face

 

[Flynn567]

It's not a bad idea Craig but when your not on site your kit should be in a locked bag so what difference would it make?

 

[TPI]

so when your waving it about in your Flat you'd be holding a Bag instead?

 

[Flynn567]

If your waving it around, you're doing it wrong

And unless you have some resome to think the police have a sniper is outside your window I think your safe

 

[TPI]

no i have something worse 2 old age pensioners who love stirring sh*t

 

[Flynn567]

Close the window blind FOOL

Plus you are trying to stop old people looking in on you, You dont need coloured tips you need to put a dildo on the end of you G36 :lol: That will tech them

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

I do actually like the idea of getting rid of two tones, a lot.

Let's be honest, why do they actually exist? If you're old enough to buy a two tone then you're old enough to buy a RIF, the age restriction is the same.

Then there's under 18s, who can have RIFs gifted to them.

So the only people who'll have a problem with it, will be people who are under 18 and don't have parents who are skirmishers and people who are stupid and won't play 3 measly games to get their UKARA, which I think is a necessity to ensure you're not wasting your money when you decide to buy a gun, as if you buy one before you've probably tried out the sport, how do you know it's for you? You might hate it and then it'll have been a waste of money buying the gun.

If you ask me I think it's good that under 18s can't buy their own guns and I don't think they ought to really own one at all until they're old enough to be trusted with it properly, which I would consider to be 18, around the time they know more about the sport and respect it a little more.

Also, I think the idea of buying RIFs without UKARA being possible if you do a face to face deal in a registered shop is a great, great idea. It makes the sport open to the under 18s who's parents aren't registered because it means if they're really serious about the sport, than can travel to a shop to buy a gun, or rather have their parents gift them one. It also makes it more similar to the laws surrounding air rifles.

I think the ideas being chucked around are all pretty good, my issue is that if we go about this in the wrong way and accidentally come across as being pushy and wanting the rules to be made more lax, then they might think we're pushing it, not like it, and ban it all together because as you say, people who are against guns, do see them as being guns and rightly so.

Also, that pint sounds good

 

[Flynn567]

I know of a couple of guys that have two-tones because they dont have the time to play airsoft as much as they would like or dont what to have RIF's in the house with there kids ect ect as they have there place in Airsoft

As for the kids it sounds good in theory but how would you feel if tomorrow you were told you cant play airsoft again till your 25?

 

[M_P]

The more important question is would you turn to the dark side of the paintball :lol:

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

Well I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed to play, I said they shouldn't be allowed to own their own guns. I addressed those issues by saying that the over the counter sales could be used for under 18s to get RIFs, so they can still own their own non-two tone guns and still participate in the sport.

Obviously there's still the option of hiring.

They could also implement a system similar to rifle ranges, when you can leave your guns on the site, that would cater for people worried about their kids.

 

[Flynn567]

OK 1st off, I can see Darth Vader playing paintball but Darth Maul would be a airsoft god

Ed I like the idea and if I was running a site I would do it but most site runner's I no have a hard enough time keeping there rental kits in working order and then there is the overheads like insurance

I suppose if you had the time you could open the site every couple of saturdays to run kit days were you can teach people how to look after there kit, do upgrades, zero in scopes/hop-ups that sort of thing, till they can do it on there own then help you teach others

 

[Airsoft-Ed]

I don't see how it would be a problem. The player just buys a gun, then leave it with the site, what's so complicated about that?

When the owner of the gun comes, they get the gun and give it them, then they take it back at the end of the day.

No maintenance is needed as it's hardly getting used and the player could take the batteries home and deal with them when appropriate upon visiting.

If there are any issues then they deal with them as they wish, take the gun home and sort it out, take it to a shop that can sort it, or if the site offer the option, pay them to sort it out.

Simples.

Obviously I'm not saying this needs doing or ought to happen, it's just one way around the issue parents have with keeping replica weapons around their kids.

 

[Flynn567]

True but it's simpler if you have a good m8 that plays airsoft, I keep my friend Jims kit at my place his fiancée two boys have every nerf gun under the sun, they are true airsofters in the making