Airsoft Forums UK

In terms of reliability in tough environments, the L85 is vastly better than the M4, although it took a while for this to evolve, initially the L85 in its SA80 form was a piece of crap with many flaws. The modifications to turn the SA80 into the L85 (done by H&K when it was British owned), led to the L85 being somewhat over-engineered, thus it is heavy compared to the M4, but it packs more of a punch than the M4 by some considerable margin owing to the longer barrel. Where airsoft is conc...

Where airsoft is concerned however, the M4 is a better choice, not least because the mag release system of the M4 is better for rapid mag changes than the L85 (as it is in real life), and a GBB L85 will not be easily ambidextrous. There are also far more many parts available for M4s than L85s.

I'd take the SA80 any day. The M4/M16 may be easier to field strip in terms of bolt carrier assembly, but I wouldn't want to be fiddling around with it's gas parts for about 5 minutes.

There's a good reason why there's so many "redesigns" of the M4 platform. The gas system can foul up and cause problems. The only reason the US still uses them is cost. They've simply got too many to replace en masse.

personaly its has o be the L85a2 after shooting it a sh*t tone at cadets i am pretty damn good with it as well the way it works just works for me as well!

The M4 is a better general purpose weapon, however I agree the L85 is much better for longer range engagements. You have to remember the M4 variants is classed as a carbine where as the L85 is classed as a Rifle. I a real war situation I would much rather have the stopping power of a 308 round, I would say the SCAR beats them both respectively. It seems like the military might be leaning more towards the 308 or the experimental 6.5 caliber guns.

it seems like you're talking out of your ass.

is that directed at me? it better not be

308 is not the ideal calibre for today's urban warfare. Not al all. If there's a risk of collateral damage, then 5.56 is the best round.

This was proved in Northern Ireland over 20 years ago!

Bullpups have been the way forward for a long time, the only reason there are still traditionally designed assault rifles is because the US army and American public won't buy anything that isn't AR15 shaped, and the AK is only still popular because it's cheap, reliable...

and easy to use.

I don't think there are any service rifles that fire a .308 round. The US use the M40 marine sniper that uses a 7.62x51 round and the British I think still uses the L115A3 long range rifle which again, uses a 7.62x51 round. There are .308 variants but that would be highly ineffective in a 'real war' situation. Those are also classed as sniper rifles, I don't think there are any current issue rifles AR's or standard rifles that use anything higher then a 7.62. Stopping powe...

I think he was just referring to the 7.62 round as a 308

Military still wants it though, much better stopping power. 6.5 good inbetween apparently but I don't know about it's actual penetration and ballistic characteristics. There was a 6.5mm AR made by LWRC in a Future Weapons episode.

[takes notes]

Power* isn't everything.

Jcheese is kinda right though, an M4 is not classed as a 'general purpose' rifles. They're typically used for CQC and urban environments. Trying to hit a target with a 5.56 round from a barrel as short as an M4's, you're going to have a bad time.

The L85 was designed as an all purpose rifle. It has the barrel length of an M16 and the ergonomics being a bullpup. Hence you could easily use it in urban or long range situations.

British Army probably wouldn't adopt a 308 as the standard issue rifle for the reason Tac said, US probably still would though if they got the funding for it and don't decide to scrap the programme half way through

Ah but the 7.62x51 isn't a .308 round though is it? It's different. Therefore he's wrong.

Yeah I was just referring to the 7.62 as 308, I think the 6.8 or 6.5 will be the caliber of the future.

[Runs out of paper]

The only other weapon system that utilises a 7.62 round is the GPMG and the M240. Both were heavily used by UK and US servicemen in Afghanistan.