Airsoft Forums UK

For most builds, no need to Swiss/lighten the piston...

If you use a decent piston like SHS Cyma, a lightish piston head, without heavy spacer inside then you will have a piston about 25gms complete

Lightening piston will save you approx 10~20% of the day 16gms of the bare piston...

So 2~3gms saving but if you plan it correctly the piston wont be heavy anyway.

You need a bit of weight/mass too, especially in a DMR they say. Only if crazy insane DSG's is Swiss cheesing a possible option.

Yeah you can go nuts if you like, but the time involved, especially cleaning up the burrs & stringy bits of plastic can take some time - so only if you really really want to Swiss stuff.

If you select decent light components, then naahhh no real need in most cases

yeah that was my thoughts exactly its not really a part your saving mucvh weight in just wondered wat the fascination with em was lol

I've done it a few times, but tbh like I said if you use a light-ish piston, say a good light POM, drop the std Chinese metal spacer...

The 8.5mm spacer inside the piston on most cheap China guns weighs around 6.5gms

If you use bearings - the spacing is about 5mm & consists of a bearing, with a top & lower race collar/washer, plus a collar to mount it all on, with a m3 bolt into the piston head etc... - well this weighs around 4gms, so about 2.5gms saved

(though about 3.5mm less spring compression)

If you use a 5mm thick x 15mm diameter plastic/delrin collar/spacer instead of bearings, it weighs about 1gms, maybe 2gms if topped with 1mm washer like G&G often use

So by using a plastic spacer over the chunky alloy spacer, you could save 5gms in piston weight - try swiss-ing 5gms from a 15gms bare piston

Taking it a stage further, most China guns come as std a little hot, often shooting say 390fps with a m115/m120 spring...

So you could remove the 8.5mm alloy spacer completely, lowering spring compression power to around m100...

Fix piss poor compression will boost fps back up a bit...

So Short-Stroke 2 or 3 teeth and you could end up producing around 335fps, short stroked with a lightened piston that you didn't need to swiss cheese at all

NB: if SS-ing you need a metal rack or part metal rack, so last tooth or two is metal when piston slips & releases

Metal rack piston (bare) is about 16gms

(smidge less/more but around 16~17gms depending on make)

POM piston head - say 5gms, 6gms with o-ring

add say 1.5~2gms for m3 bolt/screw, perhaps with m3 nylon lock nut & penny washer inside...

should be able to get a full metal rack piston at say 24gms

maybe a little less if removing some teeth on rack if SS-ing

**** std plastic piston with 1 metal tooth weighs about 12gms ****

(so this ultra light piston might benefit from alloy spacer to add mass)

On a full metal rack, you already have 4 or 5gms more weight,

so can afford to lighten it a little maybe (drop spacer if gun is a bit hot)

Yeah somewhere about 25gms give or take

for final complete piston weight is a fair guide

can be more if using heavy metal piston head

& heavier piston (don't buy alloy pistons)

most you can save is about 2.5~3gms when swiss cheesing

and the drilling/dremel work is fairly OK, though be careful you don't slip and take off too much material or weaken it too much

The PITA is the cleaning up the burrs, smoothing out the whispy bits, cleaning the holes with scalpel and quick sanding to smooth any crap down & clean it up so no bits find their way into gears/drive chain in use etc....

yeah fuck all that to save a few grams when it really isn't needed in most builds - if you plan it correctly you can keep the piston fairly light without all the fuss of swiss cheesing & cleanup etc...

I've done it a few times, got right into it with OCD etc...

but really the few grams saved vs time to clean up stuff

naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh not that big of a deal tbh

but by all means, if people wanna have a go then go for it

try it on some old std 1 metal tooth piston

or a wrecked piston, to help practice & develop a rough pattern

before diving in making your metal rack piston look like a sieve

after a few goes, i reckon most will say - fuck this

I'll just prepare the piston/head more wisely & lighter

than piss ball about & risk making holes in my nice new piston

i'm with duck on this, much easier ways to lighten a piston and ultimately it's easier just to dial back expectations and not build a gun that's so close to the edge of blowing itself up.

remove the thrust bearing from the piston saves a decent chunk, polymer rather than steel rack can save a bit, and likewise a lighter piston head saves a bit.

but it's easier to just not build a gun that's that fast in the first place.

no totally agree with yous i had never contemplated it for a second for mine was litareally couldnt sddee what all the fascination of it was when its a lightish part*depending on material used style and what not ofcourse*

totally i really aint in it for the speed crap lol only reason ive done these mods so far is cause like my motorbike when it needed new sprocklets i changed the ratio and the bike ran better etc same way i look at the gearbox of this obviousley it could all go pete tong and this thing wont run smoother i will hopefully find out soon  lol

the swiss cheese thing is one of those airsoft legends that goes hand in hand with things like recommending sticking 5mm of sorbo in every gun to correct the aoe, there is a grain of truth swollen by constant repetition.

haha yeah that was annother thing i was trying to get my head around aoe llf its like trying to change a bikes tdc and expect it to run right lol

guessing by tdc you're referring to ignition timing then that's a good example, it's worth making sure it's right, and sometimes you might need to adjust it if you're tinkering with things, but you wouldn't add 10° to every bike you owned just because the internet says so.

piston top dead centre so yeah pretty much timings valve heights tolrences the works put the same thought into my gun for this

exactly why ive listened and took all info on board fromn you more knowledgeble fellows

yeah, wish i was wise enough to listen to duck when i started tinkering.....

haha yeah bud,here youve helped me out just as much aswell man without u and duck i think i would of eben going round in circles lol

no need man, your tech adventures have alleviated some of the boredom of lockdown.

otherwise i'd have ended up messing with me own stuff and inevitably breaking something again

haha yeah looool glad ive helped alleviate some boredome will try again in a few days hopefully my mosfets should atleast be in the uk then haha

and ill have 2 guns to fit em to haha so be double the alleviation

By coincidence, I was going to ask the same question.  Thanks for the info!

yeah, wish i was wise enough to listen to duck when i started tinkering.....

Click to expand...

I wish I listened to wiser people when I opened stuff up

I foolishly bought higher speed motors

tried to run stuff way too quick (just broke quicker)

took off wrong teeth when first SS-ing (muppet guide)

many things I did & tried ignoring a more sensible approach

Turns out the wiser guides, where you don't have to go nutz

both on speed & on not upgrading EVERYTHING

yeah the kinda boring, simplistic stuff but carefully assembled stuff

with attention to detail - pah sounds rather dull...

the stuff where you get it all working silky smooth

and only replace the parts you really need to...

ergh yeah, that stuff yields the best results

off topic but somewhat relevant...

I've made a mountain out of a molehill with kitchen lights...

Originally MR16 12v halogen on transformer which was 240~12v AC

Transformers eventually give out & needed to redo the lights

Bought a new, soft-start transformer - still 12v AC a while ago

Was told by a couple of sparks - forget 12v halogen transformers

switch to 240v GU10 instead, lot less agro now with LED GU10's

(the bulbs have got better and work without agro/flickering)

Ignoring that advice, fitted the 12v AC soft-start transformer

and "some" 12v LED's kinda worked, but bought some others

which didn't work - mega flicker/strobe effect coz they need DC

So bought a 240v~12v DC transformer - well 2 actually...

One is beefy but draws nearly 4w with no bulbs

Other draws 0.5w but a slight delay before bulbs turn on...

meantime, some of the MR16 LED's are a tight fit in old downlighters

so bought new downlighters (with fire-proof housing for insulation)

Now I'm now considering changing the connector/wiring in new

downlighters to GU10 and just be done with it...

So with a fuck load of MR16 bulbs, downlighters, transformers

also wired up 4 x diodes & capacitors trying to stabilise AC to DC

(not quite perfect either)

Plus a tester plug to display wattage of devices and lots of stuff

sitting in front of me & also me getting the fucking ache of it all

I am once again thinking to myself - why the fuck didn't I heed

good sound advice & switched to GU10 LED's from the beginning ???

HINDSIGHT IS A WONDERFUL FUCKING THING

Yet wisdom is attained by making numerous fuck ups

(& learning from them)

So simply put - WHAT THE FUCK DO I KNOW ???

and the lord has spoken :

@Sitting Duck wow, I was in same boat re lights.  Those 12v transformers are nothing but a pain in the arse.  Got 4 in the kitchen and either the bulbs go or the transformers go.  Just purchased 4x mains LED, arrived yesterday, now just go to fit them.

@ak2m4 you can just buy the GU10 connectors with tails, then wire it into 240v light junction box etc...

The downlighters "should" be compatible to convert MR16 to GU10 etc...

Just my old downlighters were tight fit and no ceiling cover which with fiberglass insulation on old halogen (hot) is risky if insulation gets near it...

The LED bulbs I tended to go for are the ones with a diffuser on them, than bare LED's...

OK that part of the bulbs is settled...

The difference of opinions in our house is then down to...

5w or 7w...

5w isn't bright enough one says, 7w is a bit bright says another...

Cool White or Warm White ???

Cool White - too white missus says, Warm White looks a little yellow-ish says the kids...

For FUCKS SAKE !!!!

What happened to a bulb blew & you just popped a new one in, job done.

Think I'm going down the GU10 LED route, just trying to confirm what wattage/shade of white to go with, coz I'm fucked off buying anymore bulbs n crap...

Energy saving my arse,

Spent plenty of energy already fucking about with various options & configurations - just annoying I didn't heed the advice beforehand