How feasible would it be to get a real firearms manufacturer to make airsoft?

[Diemaco]

I've been wondering if a manufacturer of real steel Western replicas like Uberti or Pietta could be talked into making airsoft replicas.

There must be a fair bit of (non load bearing) part commonality, and I'm sure that many airsofters would appreciate quality replicas in steel, bras and walnut, rather than the pot metal that we're used to seeing from Umarex etc.

What do you all think? Would you be willing to spend £4-500 on a proper steel revolver?

 

[SGSS]

I think the reason why licensing exists is because despite the fact the form of Airsoft is similar, the reality of the product is very different. I doubt many manufacturers would want to dedicate production to a item less profitable and more niche. The best bet would be to harass an Airsoft manufacturer into approaching real steel and have something made that way under license. ASG need let someone make a Bren 3 or get off the pot!

 

[Punisher3990]

Some of the licenced RWA Nighthawk pistols are very close to thier real steel counterparts while still being built as an airsoft gun, but they are suuuuuper pricey:

RWA Nighthawk Custom AGENT 2 CO2 Airsoft Pistol - Black (Steel Version) - Defcon Airsoft

Its design features a sleek phosphate black finish complemented by silver accents, making it visually striking. The intense felt recoil of this airsoft pistol provides a shooting experience closely resembling real firearms. The pistol is built using Tokyo Marui MEU spec parts and is specifically...

www.defconairsoft.co.uk

I have the RWA BDS9 RIF, ngl if i could get the real steel one for display, i would its a very nice pistol

 

[Anonymoose]

I've been wondering if a manufacturer of real steel Western replicas like Uberti or Pietta could be talked into making airsoft replicas.

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Umarex owns Walther. Walther airsoft guns are manufactured by VFC.

Should tell you enough about the likeliness of real arms manufacturers making airsoft guns.

 

[Cannonfodder]

I can't see it happening as the costs for retooling would be quite high for a relatively small return. It makes more fiscal sense to allow 3rd parties to produce them under licence.

Funny that you mention umarex, technically they do make real guns too as they own Walther

 

[novioman]

Uberti and Pietta already make various models as air cartridge guns. They were available here for many years as you probably know.
I have a collection of steel airsoft pistols, lovely things but can be extremely expensive.

 

[Tackle]

While im sure we'd all like our toys to be made of decent steel, rather than the usual chinesium, how long would it be before some oik tries to make something lethal using these considerably stronger bodies as a base, we've already got the prevalence of moody 3d printed ghost guns in the USA (as if they haven't got enough of the proper ones already).
Even the above mentioned revolver, before you know it we're back in "Brocock" territory, all it would take would be one high profile case & they might start looking at all our other toys with suspicious minds.

 

[Tommikka]

).
Even the above mentioned revolver, before you know it we're back in "Brocock" territory, all it would take would be one high profile case & they might start looking at all our other toys with suspicious minds.

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Bang on target

I’ll often say not to over worry about the antigun lobby, and just as Brococks fell foul of having self contained ammunition (pressurised air and projectile in the same cartridge) and the partially true and partially over stated ability to modify into a full firearm - an Airsoft gun with a pressure bearing capable barrel is an invitation to both the anti gun mob and also to the shed bound criminal armourer

Pressure bearing parts may be subject to being recorded on firearms certificates and are also subject to existing controls under legislation. (For example an airgun sale and the key pressure bearing parts must be sold face to face by a RFD registered firearms dealer (this can be facilitated by a postal sale on presentation of ID on delivery,

 

[Galvatron]

Tackle and Cannonfodder share my thoughts.

I'd like to see less chinesium but at the same time, it's not financially viable to make a new production line of airsoft parts that can't bear real steel pressure loads. I'd also not want to give any credence to the mumsnet false narrative that they can be converted with minimal tooling to fire actual firearm ammo.

It's easy to say without a private investor/consortium backing manufacturers but I'd like to see more of what's happened with Double Eagle raising its game. Years ago, I associated the brand with the shitty garden plinker AEGs and some OK to decent springers. Since they did the AEGs with the Falcon mosfets, my brand perception shifted greatly and now they're doing good (and improving) quality GBBRs, it's like a completely different company. A similar investment in a revolver or another pistol/SMG platform would be very welcome.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Umarex owns Walther. Walther airsoft guns are manufactured by VFC.

Should tell you enough about the likeliness of real arms manufacturers making airsoft guns.

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Also back in 2014 Glock sued a US based shop for selling Glock replicas.

https://www.guns.com/news/2014/03/06/glock-filing-lawsuit-airsoft-vendor-replica-pistols

Particular attention should be paid to this bit
"Glock maintains that AirSplat is fully-aware that these are unlicensed replicas and that marketing and selling these guns does harm to the Glock brand and their business."

From looking online Glock won $2.25 million along with a permanent injunction blocking future sales of the infringing airsoft products.

In short real gun manufacturers aren't fans of airsoft

 

[Galvatron]

Does it mean they're not fans of airsoft full stop or that they aren't fans of airsoft when they're not earning a cut?

If AirSplat was knowingly selling unlicensed Glock airsoft guns, Glock was presumably not paid a licence fee by whoever manufactured them or commissioned the manufacturing. I'd imagine the retailer was an easy target as Glock couldn't file a suit against the manufacturer as easily.

I'd bet Noveske, Taran Tactical and Staccato are OK with airsoft since EMG is presumably paying them a handsome licensing fee for their guns.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Does it mean they're not fans of airsoft full stop or that they aren't fans of airsoft when they're not earning a cut?

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Unfortunately despite Glock's claims that these replicas damage their brand image I think it's the latter considering they've since given licences to Umarex. Personally I think that if anyone buys an airsoft glock thinking it's real then they have bigger problems and that this lawsuit did more to damage their brand image than the sale of these gbb pistols.

It's worth noting that Glock's case wasn't just over markings but the overall appearance as Glock also have that trademarked. I do wonder if this is at least part of the reason we're seeing more replicas come with the fancy tacticool slides

I'd bet Noveske, Taran Tactical and Staccato are OK with airsoft since EMG is presumably paying them a handsome licensing fee for their guns

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That or they don't have the funds for a long drawn out court case whereas a bigger company can. Obviously there's money to be made in the horse cum market

 

[Cannonfodder]

If AirSplat was knowingly selling unlicensed Glock airsoft guns, Glock was presumably not paid a licence fee by whoever manufactured them or commissioned the manufacturing. I'd imagine the retailer was an easy target as Glock couldn't file a suit against the manufacturer as easily.

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I thought I'd missed a bit out earlier.

You're right that Airsplat were an easier target than the manufacturers and being that they were one of the biggest airsoft stores in the US the lawsuit would have the most effect, both by taking existing stock off the market and sending a message to other smaller shops who might've considered carrying on selling airsoft Glocks.

On the flip side though there's a part of US trademark law where if an owner of a trademark doesn't take legal action against unauthorised use they can find it harder to stop others doing the same later and can even loose the trademark

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Airsoft gun with a pressure bearing capable barrel is an invitation to both the anti gun mob and also to the shed bound criminal armourer

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I'm not sure the argument is that strong.

We already have airsoft replicas with high (by airsoft standards) quality steel barrels.

E&l for example have the hole in the barrel+grip that serves no purpose other than ticking the box for (somewhere's) "cant hold pressure, not a gun" legislation.

Not to mention that steel good enough for our "high quality" standard doesnt need to be "and would actually safely contain the pressure of firing".

Plus modding an airsoft gun to fire (well what exactly? are we assuming people can get ammunition but not guns? Are they making their own rounds?) would be as difficult as craft manufacturing. The world of slamfire shotguns feels like a pertinent reference to make here.

Of course all of that is moot given we live in a world where the impression of the thing as wrought by a daily mail headline or whatever slop passes as "news" on facebook is more impactful than verifiable reality.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Of course all of that is moot given we live in a world where the impression of the thing as wrought by a daily mail headline or whatever slop passes as "news" on facebook is more impactful than verifiable reality.

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This. Unfortunately the anti gun brigade won't listen to reason and will just move the goalposts. Years ago I had a conversation with a work colleague who was convinced airsoft guns could be converted to live fire. It got to the point where is argument was that you could machine all the internal parts at home to fit. By that point you might as well be building a Luty

 

[Tommikka]

Of course all of that is moot given we live in a world where the impression of the thing as wrought by a daily mail headline or whatever slop passes as "news" on facebook is more impactful than verifiable reality.

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It is of course moot.

The actual viability of doing something to convert plus the viability in comparison to alternatives, an Airsoft gun that just had barrel / parts to real steel standards to be attempted to convert are I suspect to be nil
That doesn’t stop the anti gun community of making claims that everything can be converted in a shed. (I’m sure that these claims have already been made for Chineseum Airsoft)

Most of the time I would push back on Airsoft / paintball community fears that the anti gun lobby will get out hobbies banned - it’s been tried many times and (even if we don’t have the best defending lobby they are still recognised as valid recreational business that would be harmed.

Paintball has the luxury of well established comms between the UKPSF and the home office / police forces - but not legislative protection
Airsoft was “saved” by the retailer/site collaboration that lobbied the position for the VCRA defence, and also in later years got the Firearms act exemption for “compliant” Airsoft. Airsfot lobbying may not be as effective/active as a body right now compared to UKPSF (such as the Covid reopening clause)
I must be careful for what I wish for, but I would not be too afraid of getting some paintball related legislation to tidy up the grey areas of many different legislation snippets vs general interpretation which can change at the drop of a hat


I am probably too wary on this cautious side ot a real steel material adoption, but don’t really see a realistic benefit to the player (better stronger materials / quality - but there already are better and worse quality RIFs about
It could of course be a money stream for a manufacturer that put something on the market as some people will jump at buying it, but maybe not to pay back the investment & costs of doing so