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Airsoft gun for home defence
- Thread starter Pricey-1991
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Colonel Kurtz
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Had a chat with a drunken ex-copper once on the topic and got the following 'advice'
If someone is burgling you, and you run downstairs and jump in with a weapon and threaten/attack them, you're getting done.
You can only respond in self defense, if you have not been actually attacked, then you have to have been directly threatened with violence, them breaking into your home isn't enough to infer that threat like it is in the US
If you choose to use any kind of weapon to 'defend' yourself, you are likely to get done, as you probably chose to select that weapon before you knew exactly how much danger you are in, and it infers premeditation to a degree. Of course there's scenario's where it'd still be valid, but if you pick up a weapon and then move towards the burglar, for any reason other than there being other family members you do not know the state of and are seeking to verify, then you are effectively picking the fight and will get done.
If you end up in a fight with the burglar, you can only 'defend' yourself in a blow for blow manner. E.G. If they punch you and you punch them back it's fine, if you punch them several times then you get done. Same with a weapon, crack-head pulls a knife, you smack him with a bat - fine. You keep smacking him and you get done.
So what can you do? This drunk copper advised that essentially you barricade yourself in a room and call the cops. I second this, especially here, as I've not met many airsofters that i'd back in a fight vs a feral crackhead fueled by adrenaline & gear. Even if you got in a fight with them and won, you've not gained anything other than it being more likely you'll get a brick through your window / car set on fire later.
If you end up being attacked or threatened to the extent where you fear for your life, you should use a tool or other implement that is not a weapon, (but you want it to be capable of inflicting enough serious injury to well and truly disable the attacker with one hit). The one hit is key, so when they pull a knife on you, you smack them with the hammer once and once only, you have to wait for them to attack you again before hitting them again. Then you don't get done. When the cops turn up you say they attacked you, you grabbed this object as it was the closest thing to hand, and hit them when they lunged at you.
The most important thing here is not arming yourself before you know what the situation is exactly, and not using more force than necessary to prevent immediate injury to yourself or family. Property is irrelevant, you can't 'put down' a burglar to defend the honor of your Xbox One.
Anyone talking about what they'd 'put down' a burglar with is talking pointless bravado bullshit with no basis in reality (e.g. it's never happened so how do you know you wont just act like most people and sh*t your pants and shake in a corner) or you are dangerous sociopath, or at the very lest someone who enjoys indulging the idea of being one in the safety of the internet
If someone is burgling you, and you run downstairs and jump in with a weapon and threaten/attack them, you're getting done.
You can only respond in self defense, if you have not been actually attacked, then you have to have been directly threatened with violence, them breaking into your home isn't enough to infer that threat like it is in the US
If you choose to use any kind of weapon to 'defend' yourself, you are likely to get done, as you probably chose to select that weapon before you knew exactly how much danger you are in, and it infers premeditation to a degree. Of course there's scenario's where it'd still be valid, but if you pick up a weapon and then move towards the burglar, for any reason other than there being other family members you do not know the state of and are seeking to verify, then you are effectively picking the fight and will get done.
If you end up in a fight with the burglar, you can only 'defend' yourself in a blow for blow manner. E.G. If they punch you and you punch them back it's fine, if you punch them several times then you get done. Same with a weapon, crack-head pulls a knife, you smack him with a bat - fine. You keep smacking him and you get done.
So what can you do? This drunk copper advised that essentially you barricade yourself in a room and call the cops. I second this, especially here, as I've not met many airsofters that i'd back in a fight vs a feral crackhead fueled by adrenaline & gear. Even if you got in a fight with them and won, you've not gained anything other than it being more likely you'll get a brick through your window / car set on fire later.
If you end up being attacked or threatened to the extent where you fear for your life, you should use a tool or other implement that is not a weapon, (but you want it to be capable of inflicting enough serious injury to well and truly disable the attacker with one hit). The one hit is key, so when they pull a knife on you, you smack them with the hammer once and once only, you have to wait for them to attack you again before hitting them again. Then you don't get done. When the cops turn up you say they attacked you, you grabbed this object as it was the closest thing to hand, and hit them when they lunged at you.
The most important thing here is not arming yourself before you know what the situation is exactly, and not using more force than necessary to prevent immediate injury to yourself or family. Property is irrelevant, you can't 'put down' a burglar to defend the honor of your Xbox One.
Anyone talking about what they'd 'put down' a burglar with is talking pointless bravado bullshit with no basis in reality (e.g. it's never happened so how do you know you wont just act like most people and sh*t your pants and shake in a corner) or you are dangerous sociopath, or at the very lest someone who enjoys indulging the idea of being one in the safety of the internet
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two_zero
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Not in the UK mate. If someone run at you with an axe you're suppose to call 999 - knock him cold and you'll probably be share a cell!
(yea im bitter)
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callumbagshaw
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two_zero
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^this
disgusting and depressing, but very much the case.
I was a victim of a burglary a few years ago. My means of income was taken away from me. The scum was later caught, proven guilty, and laid off because he was young and unemployed (much like me, thanks to him). And he probably had a real good time spending the money. Moral: crime pays, -especially in the UK.
I've been so damn scared at time walking the streets knowing if I'd get jumped I would have to choose between hospital or prison.
two_zero
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callumbagshaw
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callumbagshaw
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I remember a story about a man in South Africa who heard a burglar in his bathroom and shot him...
AJWest
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Whilst I agree with that whole article I would just like to pick up on the 'you have to have been directly threatened with violence' part. I'm not going to try and correct you becuase it is partly true, more of a clarification I feel. You do not have to be 'directly threatened' as you say all you have todo is FEEL threatened. What I mean by that is that if someone says "I'm going to f***ing kill you" then advanced on you with one or more hands concealed you would be well within your rights to put them on their arse until you perceived they were no longer a threat. However they don't have to say the words, if someone is advancing on you and you feel threatened you can 'defend' yourself with 'necessary and proportiante' force. It does seem like a huge loophole because most people could claim self defence for any minor fight but most people don't know this part of the law, now where this loosely ties in with this thread [trying to stay on topic slightly :L] If someone breaks into your house and you end up face to face with them you can take them on first and still claim self defence but as you said don't go overboard and you should be fine legally. I have had to use this defence at work a few times [thankfully never in my home] and it has worked everytime so don't be afraid to defend yourself/property/family, altough it sometimes seems the legal system is against us law-abiding cittizens in these situations it can work in out favour
anywho like I said not disagreeing with you in anyway Kurtz just thought I should clear that up as it's one of the small smatterings of knowledge I have managed to tuck away and keep over the years amongst all the other nonsense 
Colonel Kurtz
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Agree good point, it doesn't have to be an actual threat, it could be you 'feeling' threatened, but unfortunately in these cases it's very easy to argue your interpretation as incorrect or biased by fear/panic/prejudice, and your response as disproportionate. I know in america you have to issue a verbal warning before performing any act of defence if you havent actually been attacked, not sure about uk, have watched more CSI than episodes of The Bill recently...
A lot of what i mentioned you might not get charged for something yourself, but any such detail being a question can easily force the case against your thieving crackhead to be dropped.
I have a similar situation of personal experience relating to the using a weapon side of things, not quite home defense as it was on the street, but location made no difference so close enough;
I was walking home from a friends house in the early hours over a decade ago, and got set on by a couple of crack yoot after my phone etc. I took a bit of an initial kickin, then I got a massive adrenaline dump and got to my feet and 'defended myself'. I had a video box in my hands (that i'd been watching round said friends), and without really thinking about it used this to defend myself. I left them on the floor and called the police from my mobile.
In the end, no charges were brought against them for a couple reasons;
- Firstly because i had inflicted far far more damage. I had a split lip & eye brow and few bruises/swell, but it turns out the corner of a plastic box can carve massive gouges out someones face. Legally, my use of this video box as a weapon was disproportionate as they had no weapon (i escaped being charged with assault/ using a weapon on this basis as i said i was in a total daze and didn't realize it was still in my hands). If i had struck them once, i'd been ok, but a battering doesn't count.
- Apparently would have been too easy for their defense to argue they had stopped giving me a kickin when i got up (one had started walking away, which enabled me to smash his mate in before he noticed and turned round. i'm no kungfu master who can take on 2 people paying attention at the same time), therefor making my actions an act of immediate revenge/assault not defense. Couldn't prove it either way, but enough a question to make it pointless bringing charges
The police aren't cunts and know what reality is better than anyone, unfortunately the tool they have (law) can leave a bit to be desired. I was given the impression the police's priority had been getting the crackheads to confess to details that would stop me being charged, i was lucky for this to have been a success, and there would have been almost no chance they'd get charged unless one had fully church-confessed. In the end, i certainly felt that i'd not received justice from UK law, but the policemen themselves had done their duty and best to keep me getting charged. Apparently If my assailants hadn't been very well known to them, and been sensible enough to make 'no comment', I'd been charged with gbh or abh or assault with a weapon or all the above.
So in summary, me taking a kicking isn't enough justification to use a weapon on someone, so being afraid of violence that hasn't occurred or been directly threatened probably won't cut it as a justification in court, you might get away with punching someone, once, but anything with a weapon, probably not.
A lot of what i mentioned you might not get charged for something yourself, but any such detail being a question can easily force the case against your thieving crackhead to be dropped.
I have a similar situation of personal experience relating to the using a weapon side of things, not quite home defense as it was on the street, but location made no difference so close enough;
I was walking home from a friends house in the early hours over a decade ago, and got set on by a couple of crack yoot after my phone etc. I took a bit of an initial kickin, then I got a massive adrenaline dump and got to my feet and 'defended myself'. I had a video box in my hands (that i'd been watching round said friends), and without really thinking about it used this to defend myself. I left them on the floor and called the police from my mobile.
In the end, no charges were brought against them for a couple reasons;
- Firstly because i had inflicted far far more damage. I had a split lip & eye brow and few bruises/swell, but it turns out the corner of a plastic box can carve massive gouges out someones face. Legally, my use of this video box as a weapon was disproportionate as they had no weapon (i escaped being charged with assault/ using a weapon on this basis as i said i was in a total daze and didn't realize it was still in my hands). If i had struck them once, i'd been ok, but a battering doesn't count.
- Apparently would have been too easy for their defense to argue they had stopped giving me a kickin when i got up (one had started walking away, which enabled me to smash his mate in before he noticed and turned round. i'm no kungfu master who can take on 2 people paying attention at the same time), therefor making my actions an act of immediate revenge/assault not defense. Couldn't prove it either way, but enough a question to make it pointless bringing charges
The police aren't cunts and know what reality is better than anyone, unfortunately the tool they have (law) can leave a bit to be desired. I was given the impression the police's priority had been getting the crackheads to confess to details that would stop me being charged, i was lucky for this to have been a success, and there would have been almost no chance they'd get charged unless one had fully church-confessed. In the end, i certainly felt that i'd not received justice from UK law, but the policemen themselves had done their duty and best to keep me getting charged. Apparently If my assailants hadn't been very well known to them, and been sensible enough to make 'no comment', I'd been charged with gbh or abh or assault with a weapon or all the above.
So in summary, me taking a kicking isn't enough justification to use a weapon on someone, so being afraid of violence that hasn't occurred or been directly threatened probably won't cut it as a justification in court, you might get away with punching someone, once, but anything with a weapon, probably not.
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AJWest
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Totally agree with that first bit as well, you have to be very careful with the whole 'self defence' thing in the UK
Colonel Kurtz
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Yeah if similar happens again, i'm just handing over my phone and avoiding violence in any manner, i'd also leave a burglar to rinse out my living room, perhaps shout down the stairs at them to try hurry them off to their dealer. So that's what i'd advise, back to the OP - I'd certainly say using an airsoft gun or air-rifle for 'home-defense' is totally pointless/insane.
djben9
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Well, IIRC, it was actually a she and the home owner didn't have a leg to stand on...was it a him....
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Twice19
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I like to think my dog would honourably defend the house in the event. She growls and barks like a Hell Hound, but as soon as ANYONE steps through the door she realises she must love them!
Atleast she'd keep the burglars pinned down while she licks them half to death.
Atleast she'd keep the burglars pinned down while she licks them half to death.
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