'Standard' Game Rules

[FreeFrag.UK]

I think the main issue with the clip you referenced that the site is using "surrender kills" as a substitute for a "bang kill" but this is an American site so perhaps less said the better on that one. If we work on the assumption that the surrender kill must be taken at that site then logic dictates you have to have the target in your sights. The player in question clearly didn't and seemed to trying to use the "surrender" kill as a substitute for either a grenade or a blunderbuss (but even then I'm sure it would have missed as he was so far off target).

I'm yet to encounter "bang kills" or mandatory surrender kills on any site in the UK but I've been told they are out there. Personally I'd avoid such sites as the bang rule has a well established history of generating a considerable amount of conflict and frequently being abused.

The surrender option is meant to be just that, an option. Much like in real life it's up to you if you're going to surrender when given the chance or if you're going to play your hand in the hope of a win, just don't complain when you get shot. Personally I like the surrender rule and depending on the situation I will give the other play the option. By all means call me silly but I tend to look at the surrender rule as being good sportsmanship and showing respect to your fellow player, at least when it comes to the option of shooting someone at point blank.

Knife kills are another option and they certainly have their place in the hobby but in lieu of Covid this will no doubt have to change in the interest of social distancing. Admittedly it's somewhat satisfying whispering "knife" to someone when placing a hand on the shoulder while also often resulting in a "well played" after the brief drop of the head when on the receiving end.

As far as dummy grenades are concerned, I think they're best left out of it. At the end of the day these could/will just lead to arguments as from what I've seen there is little to nothing to actually indicate when one lands in the room with you unless it happens to be in your field of vision.

 

[Iceni]

As far as dummy grenades are concerned, I think they're best left out of it.

Some sites even go so far as to have a ban on running from grenades. So if one gets thrown at you - You take it. It stops people trying to turn and run, potentially causing accidents both to themselves and others. At the end of the day that person has just spend like £3 to kill you. If someone chucked a chocolate bar at me, I think the marshal would be getting it, And I'd be expecting him to share.

 

[Keldon]

19 hours ago, Tommikka said:

I’m framing this thread as an area for discussing general and site specific rules

It could follow on from recent discussions of representative bodies and standardisation.

The specifics of this one is what happens here between about 1:10 & 1:50

This is how my local site does it and it's how I think it should be. 

 

[concretesnail]

Bang rules are dumb, too much ambiguity. If you're that worried about getting hurt run the site with a lower fps. There have been a few uk based cqb site I've played at that require a lower fps and semi only and some that didn't allow grenade use simply as they were in a highly urban area.

Surrender options. Fine. You call it and they have to option to take it, in the knowledge that of they don't they could be getting hit at the mich closer closer range.

Giving players that choice can make for some quite memorable moments, I know I've had few.

Dummy grenades. If it doesn't go off it does fire so it's a dud. I know I've used my bfg when it's not primed. Roll it in and when they are running for the exits follow it in and shoot them as they flee.

Knives. After covid we'll have to see how things go. But they should be allowed. It should be a silent option. A tap on the shoulder, a whispered knife kill, no hit call out, just take it and walk away, if someone has been sneaky enough to creep through then they should be able to continue that advance.

 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

My idea of spirit is what I personally bring to the game and that's the operative word 'game'

This is absolutely what I mean, it is a game, one based on 'honour'... I can get from choke point to respawn and back many times before endex is called, I play with more care when lives are in less supply.

If we were to play as close to real we would need to do the whole armour protects....which on a skirmish day is a no. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Some sites even go so far as to have a ban on running from grenades. So if one gets thrown at you - You take it. It stops people trying to turn and run, potentially causing accidents both to themselves and others. At the end of the day that person has just spend like £3 to kill you. If someone chucked a chocolate bar at me, I think the marshal would be getting it, And I'd be expecting him to share.

not so sure on running from grenades, but i would agree with a ban on trying to throw them back, had it happen with a fella tried to throw it back assuming it wasn't going to go off, fortunately it was a thunder b (which is why he assumed it had failed) and he was wearing decent gloves so no no actual harm done.

 

[kasaran]

The Gaol has a varient of the surrender kill.

Basically if your close to someone, say 3 metres, and shout surrender its up to them to take it or try to shoot you.  Basically, its a courtesy they may refuse so be prepared to shoot or be shot.

Within a metre the rule on surrender is compulsory.  There are a lot of close quarters encounters there and pitch black areas.  So basically if your gun is up, aimed at someone point blank, you are to surrender.  So really only used if there is no chance of you not winning the engagement if the trigger gets pulled.

I have never seen anyone there offer surrender besides when they are close enough to poke someone with their gnu barrel.

Prevents american style running round corners and into rooms screaming 'bang bang' like some rambo/neo hybrid who thinks they are invincible.  In my opinion that sort of behaviour  removes any skill in the game.

 

[Impulse]

Some sites even go so far as to have a ban on running from grenades. So if one gets thrown at you - You take it. It stops people trying to turn and run, potentially causing accidents both to themselves and others. At the end of the day that person has just spend like £3 to kill you. If someone chucked a chocolate bar at me, I think the marshal would be getting it, And I'd be expecting him to share.

I hate that rule. You should definitely be allowed to run from grenades. Picking them up and throwing them back, on the other hand, shouldn't be allowed and I'm glad my local site runs it that way as that's dangerous; if it goes off in your hand (which has a decent probability) then that's going to do some real damage.

 

[Albiscuit]

The Gaol has a varient of the surrender kill.

Basically if your close to someone, say 3 metres, and shout surrender its up to them to take it or try to shoot you.  Basically, its a courtesy they may refuse so be prepared to shoot or be shot.

Within a metre the rule on surrender is compulsory.  There are a lot of close quarters encounters there and pitch black areas.  So basically if your gun is up, aimed at someone point blank, you are to surrender.  So really only used if there is no chance of you not winning the engagement if the trigger gets pulled.

I have never seen anyone there offer surrender besides when they are close enough to poke someone with their gnu barrel.

Prevents american style running round corners and into rooms screaming 'bang bang' like some rambo/neo hybrid who thinks they are invincible.  In my opinion that sort of behaviour  removes any skill in the game.

The gun up thing makes sense. At The Mall I have lost count of the amount of times someone has come into a room with me in it maybe shot a mate and I had no chance so called myself hit before I got shot.

likewise I managed to clear a small room or two without having to take an actual shot. 
 

But then that was all down to player choice, we agreed to surrender/call hit before getting a stinger in the knackers.
It wasn’t an actual site rule but made sense for all involved and caused no issues for the players involved or the game as a whole. 
 

And regarding my dummy grenade mention, I have seen vids where an unprimed BFG gets posted through a door with a shout of “GRENADE” so all in the room are aware and stops people getting confused with old mk5s lying around.

I still think it’s easier for people’s ears, cheaper and easier than priming hard nades after each throw and stops the costs of second hand TRMRs going through the roof  

 

[SSPKali]

I have asked people to surrender when I have crept up on them and have the barrel almost touching them, as it is more polite than a point blank shot!

I have also been given the option, and was very glad of it, when 4 people with NODS managed to walk up right behind me at Cope Hill Down in a very dark building! I turned around to see the distant street light glinting off the business ends of four M4s inches from my chest ?

 

[Tommikka]

I hate that rule. You should definitely be allowed to run from grenades. Picking them up and throwing them back, on the other hand, shouldn't be allowed and I'm glad my local site runs it that way as that's dangerous; if it goes off in your hand (which has a decent probability) then that's going to do some real damage.

I concur with never throwing back, ((do as I say, not as I do))

The pictures below are a team mate - he’s not throwing back, but had a faulty Mk9 where the factory had contaminated the striker fuse with grains of the detonator. Instead of the fuse burning down it blew as soon as it was ignited.

Due to quality gloves he only ripped his gloves apart instead of his skin

View attachment 71884View attachment 71885

(I don’t think that brand exists anymore, or if they do then there’s been a name change)

You never know how long a grenade has to go

If it’s a mk5 or mk9 then it’s made up of layers of paper that will mostly direct the bang for noise and flash ‘vertically’ (depending on orientation), if it’s a reusable then it’s the ‘exhaust’ and if it’s smoke then it’s probably going to get hottest after the smoke has finished.

 

[Albiscuit]

One thing I do wish is that there was more continuity across the sites. I have played at countless sites and do not consider myself to have a 'home' site (although I am a little bored of trying news one all the time now)  and I have seen some sites that do it really well and others which are a shit show.

Some have full auto MED which makes sense, others are a horrible hosefest, some have rules with no full auto into or out of a building, others dont care if you get half a hi cap to the face from 2m away in a room, varying grenade rules, varying bang rules, one had a VERY stupid rule where a grenade in the building kills everyone in the building. I was totally confused to be told I was dead because a grenade went off two rooms away whilst I was hiding in the dark under a brick countertop so if thats not hard cover I dont know what is.

Levels of marshalling could do with a standardised approach too, some of our team complained about a certain player at a site last month, I had heard others talk about the invincible grey hoody wearer too and had shot him myself a few times. A little squad I was near moaned about him not taking hits to a marshal who said thanks for letting me know, said marshal then went about 30m in the opposite direction of the enemy player (actually behind us) and started to shoot us all. We were really confused and were asking WTF then he said we were too clos to the enemy so hes shooting us to force a respawn. Pretty mad tbh.

Needless to say grey hoodie still had god mode activated for the rest of the day.

 

[Asomodai]

(although I am a little bored of trying news one all the time now) 

?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

started to shoot us all. We were really confused and were asking WTF then he said we were too clos to the enemy so hes shooting us to force a respawn. Pretty mad tbh.

i really hate that, just as i hate when sites will change game rules mid-game in order to break a stalemate.

for example place i used to play had pretty damn rigid "thou shalt not do the sneaky flank going this way" rules for a certain game mode, except when the defending team were doing a good enough job to halt the game they'd then open up the aforementioned flanking rules without telling the defenders

kind of makes a mockery of putting the effort in to attacking through a choke point, which given the layout wasn't really that hard to do if you put more thought into things than simply returning to the same cover you got shot at 3 times in a row.

 

[Tackle]

i really hate that, just as i hate when sites will change game rules mid-game in order to break a stalemate.

for example place i used to play had pretty damn rigid "thou shalt not do the sneaky flank going this way" rules for a certain game mode, except when the defending team were doing a good enough job to halt the game they'd then open up the aforementioned flanking rules without telling the defenders

kind of makes a mockery of putting the effort in to attacking through a choke point, which given the layout wasn't really that hard to do if you put more thought into things than simply returning to the same cover you got shot at 3 times in a row.

That pisses me off, worse though which happened a couple of times in one game day, changing the rules during gameplay just to benefit the "home" team, not even close to a stalemate, just to give said home team a massive advantage, when it happened the second time I saw people packing up their kit & going home early.

I vowed never to use that mobs sites again, they spoiled so many peoples day with their childish antics.

 

[ziontrain]

one had a VERY stupid rule where a grenade in the building kills everyone in the building.

*cries in GMA*

 

[Adolf Hamster]

That pisses me off, worse though which happened a couple of times in one game day, changing the rules during gameplay just to benefit the "home" team, not even close to a stalemate, just to give said home team a massive advantage, when it happened the second time I saw people packing up their kit & going home early.

I vowed never to use that mobs sites again, they spoiled so many peoples day with their childish antics.

that is bad, at least the place i was talking about they were doing it to break the stalemate and didn't really have a home team.

 

[SheriffHD]

It seems every site ive gone to like to bash the "bang rule" during the safety brief stating that "we're not some pansy Americans who don't want to get shot" or something along those lines. It seems a general census to just shoot each other and have fun with it. Those rules really do derail a game quick when you get people arguing about who said bang first.

As for gamemodes. i am not a fan on gamemodes with "hidden" objectives. it slows the gameplay down and makes for a confusing mess alot of the time. for a milsim game sure it'll work but for a skirmish I want chaos 

 

[Albiscuit]

Bang is bollocks though. One shot or a hand on the shoulder should be enough for a kill. 

?

the effort of the drive to some places is not worth it (like absolute) I would like to start returning to some of the better ones now

 

[Jaylordofwaargh]

the effort of the drive to some places is not worth it (like absolute) I would like to start returning to some of the better ones now

I mean you and @Asomodai have done a lot of leg work for us in the s.e. for site awareness. It is right that you start to look back at favorites to return to.