Blackhawk Down Guns

[Druid799]

Not surprisingly because of how good the film is the topic of the guns and kit in BHD is one that seems often to be just under the surface on gameday discussions about kit and frequently pops up as it did for me yesterday during the lunch break With the guys on the table next to mine . Now funny thing about this for me is when it does come up is how many players have an idea in there head about XYZ from the film and this idea will not be changed ! I say this not in a bad “I’m right your wrong !” way I just mean you get an image of say Gordon’s gun in your head and your positive that’s what it was like , but when you do go check it you find your completely and utterly wrong ! ?‍??

So ramble over just been looking now and I came across this article , now the way I see it you can’t get more definitive than pictures supplied by the prop house who provided the actual guns for the film can you ! ?

https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-trending/guns-from-black-hawk-down/

 

[alxndrhll]

The whole cloning/reproducing thing will often wind up being a weirdly firey topic. Even more so when you're jumping between wanting to reproduce a film prop versus a closest approximation of what the real folks used (the two not always being the same based on what's available). It's been a long time since I was particuarly interested in directly cloning something, I tend to shoot for 'inspired bys' where I'm replicating something I like the look of but putting things I like the function, form or look of in the mix. From what I understand that era is a bit of a wild west as to what folks would have been using, you didn't have the 'blocks' as you do now (granted there still seems to be a degree of confrontation as to exactly what does and doesn't make up the blocks so ?‍).

For my money if you've got a carry handle upper, some sort of carry handle rail mounted Aimpoint-a-like (imagine Comp M2 repro's would be the easiest/cheapest to source), a CAR stock and ideally a sleeve style suppressor you've got 'the look'. It's largely up to you how much research, part sourcing and spending you want to do to get it 'accurate'. Chase your bliss, make your own fun etc etc.

Take this next paragraph with a pinch of salt, it's largely based on second hand anecdotal mutterings because impression kits is never something that has interested me in the slightest, but as I understand it historically you come across some of the biggest cnuts around in those circles. Just turns into a weird dick swinging contest where folks would seemingly rather laugh and berate you for getting something wrong rather than help you get it right (if that's something you're inclined to want to do). Just seems like a really gatekept thing rather than coming across as a community that actually wants folks in it, that's my potentially ill-informed take anyway. If impressionist stuff is your thing, more power to you, it's not something I truly understand the motivations behind because it's not something that appeals to me.

TLDR - Yum yuckers are the worst, myself included.

 

[Cannonfodder]

 historically you come across some of the biggest cnuts around in those circles. Just turns into a weird dick swinging contest where folks would seemingly rather laugh and berate you for getting something wrong rather than help you get it right

This is a perfect description of the Red Alliance forum and is what put me off impression load outs, along with all the yes comrade bullshit (usually from folk who were just a twinkle in the milkman's eye when the USSR collapsed) 

 

[DerDer]

This is a perfect description of the Red Alliance forum and is what put me off impression load outs, along with all the yes comrade bullshit (usually from folk who were just a twinkle in the milkman's eye when the USSR collapsed) 

Think the Red Alliance forum is gone now. There is still that streak of animosity in some Russian gear orientated groups. Looking down on people because they got some gear from Grey shop etc. 

 

[Impulse]

I'm not into impression stuff, however BHD definitely did influence my choice of RIFs because there are some really cool scenes. Why do you think I run not one, but two m14s as well as not one, but two 1911s? One of the least practical AEGs (because the m14 is so damn front-heavy and working on the gearbox is torture) and one of the least practical GBB pistols (because the 1911 magazines are so tiny and therefore can't take that much gas). Not all at the same time, of course

(Honestly, its a combination of that BHD scene plus the all ghillied up mission in CoD4 where you use a suppressed m21)

Take this next paragraph with a pinch of salt, it's largely based on second hand anecdotal mutterings because impression kits is never something that has interested me in the slightest, but as I understand it historically you come across some of the biggest cnuts around in those circles. Just turns into a weird dick swinging contest where folks would seemingly rather laugh and berate you for getting something wrong rather than help you get it right (if that's something you're inclined to want to do). Just seems like a really gatekept thing rather than coming across as a community that actually wants folks in it, that's my potentially ill-informed take anyway. If impressionist stuff is your thing, more power to you, it's not something I truly understand the motivations behind because it's not something that appeals to me.

TLDR - Yum yuckers are the worst, myself included.

I will echo what has already been said here. I've seen a lot of gear-gatekeeping. People making these arguments about "no, you're loadout is wrong because that rig is actually from 2 years earlier" are often really annoying to me, because I see airsoft as a great hobby because we can all play it our own way. I dress up like a bush and sneak around with a silent HPA rifle and silent mk23 sidearm, making silent shots and not really affecting the game in massively direct ways; it's hide and seek with BB guns to me. Others grab their AEG and go super high speed, gunfighting over objectives and clearing buildings. Others set up their support gun and hose entire areas with thousands of BBs. We all have our own ways of playing, which extends to our choice of dress up. I'm also a fan of real-steel shooting gear, but I'll never berate someone for buying cheapo gear because it's what they like. Airsoft loadouts are very personal and nobody can really tell you that you're doing it wrong if that's the way you like to play. One of my m14s is super heavy, as I put a bipod and a rail handguard on it, with people saying "oh you can't do that because it'll make it way too heavy and impractical!" yet those same people will come up to me on a game day when I bring it out and say "wow, that looks really cool! What is it? How did you do it?"

What I'll also add to the discussion is that I took a long break from airsoft from around 2010 until around 2018 and was shocked by some of the aspects of loadout building. People used to do impression kits all the time, but when I came back it was like "oh, that could be construed as stolen valor because you've got that patch". I get it, stolen valor is awful, but someone looking to make a relatively authentic SAS impression loadout because they played CoD4 and thought it was cool is not the same as someone putting on the uniforms and bragging about how they were in the regiment when they really weren't. I did an SAS inspired kit about 13 years ago because I played a lot of CoD4 and thought it was cool, but I never pretended to even be in the forces; it was all part of the dress up, like a costume.

TLR - You do you. Make the loadout you like and you think looks cool. A lot of airsofters (I'd hazard to say the vast majority of airsofters) are lovely people and will likely think what you've done is cool and ask questions about it. Nobody will care if it's not 100% genuine authentic Delta with all the gear being surplus that was actually in Mogadishu and actually worn by that specific soldier. As long as it captures the look, people will notice and probably compliment you on it. Us airsofters love to talk shop about loadouts

 

[Super64]

I’ve done a couple of BHD inspired builds over my time. I’ve added a couple of pictures of the most recent builds I’ve done, WE M-14 and WE XM177. I was really happy with both, but ended up selling them on to do other stuff. One of my biggest regrets was selling the suppressor from the Gary Gordon Car-15, because they’re difficult to come by. Obviously as you can see neither were totally accurate, but good enough for me. 
 

I’m in the process of building another Delta Car-15, Blackhawk Down inspired. I’ll see how it ends up.

View attachment 74478

View attachment 74479

 

[Druid799]

Yea do agree you get the biggest asshats in this area of the past time, I myself i enjoy putting a ‘themed’ loadout together (to be honest it’s the sourcing of the bits’n’bobs I think I enjoy the most) and I freely admit I’m a geardo but I’m most definitely not a thread counter by any stretch of the imagination ! I hate those guys . I do appreciate it when someone has tried to build a specific loadout no matter how ‘correct’ it is when you know they’ve tried , an accurate loadout is frequently very expensive to do and outside a lot of players budgets . BUT I will admit I can and will sometimes be dismissive of the the guy who says “look at my XYZ loadout !” When it’s obvious he’s put zero effort in to it apart from slinging a couple of badges on his kit and and that’s that ! no research of any kind done just seen a picture of what ever and then based it off that immaterial of how correct that one piece of source material may be .

Always been a believer recognition and praise is only achieved after hard work ,  so if you do want some at least put a bit of effort in to the job it first place ? 

 

[Shamal]

That's why I have never been into sims. 

1 I don't like taking orders.

2 I wear what I want and what's practical.(as long as me handbag matches)

3 I can run around(walk)like a headless chicken and no one cares lol.

It's my day,get used to it!?

Regards 

 

[Druid799]

I’ve done a couple of BHD inspired builds over my time. I’ve added a couple of pictures of the most recent builds I’ve done, WE M-14 and WE XM177. I was really happy with both, but ended up selling them on to do other stuff. One of my biggest regrets was selling the suppressor from the Gary Gordon Car-15, because they’re difficult to come by. Obviously as you can see neither were totally accurate, but good enough for me. 
 

I’m in the process of building another Delta Car-15, Blackhawk Down inspired. I’ll see how it ends up.

You’ve hit the nail on the head , you’ve put the work in and tried to get them as close as you could without going anal over it and NOT just stuck a generic chinese clone red dot on an M4 and screamed “look at my BHD Delta XM177 !” which it’s not in any way shape or form .?

 

[alxndrhll]

 (to be honest it’s the sourcing of the bits’n’bobs I think I enjoy the most)

I think this is nail meets head for a lot of this sort of thing for many into cloning/impression stuff (to be clear, this is an educated guess). The thrill of the chase and all that, though I do think in this day and age a lot of the reasoning behind doing it has changed. 'Clout' tends to be a driving force behind folks wanting rare/gucci shit rather than them having a particular strong feeling toward it, I'll openly admit it's a rabbit hole I've fallen down before (truthfully, likely on multiple ocassions) and I've never been tempted toward the impression side of things. I'm in a really happy place with what I have both for RIFs and gear now, largely because I entirely stopped giving a fuck about keeping up appearances and started getting stuff I want (and in some cases rebuying things I'd gotten rid of). Fortunately some of the stuff I've been after is harder to get your hands on so I still get some of that chase for things... and it's for what I'd call 'the right reasons'.

 

[Druid799]

I think this is nail meets head for a lot of this sort of thing for many into cloning/impression stuff (to be clear, this is an educated guess). The thrill of the chase and all that, though I do think in this day and age a lot of the reasoning behind doing it has changed. 'Clout' tends to be a driving force behind folks wanting rare/gucci shit rather than them having a particular strong feeling toward it, I'll openly admit it's a rabbit hole I've fallen down before (truthfully, likely on multiple ocassions) and I've never been tempted toward the impression side of things. I'm in a really happy place with what I have both for RIFs and gear now, largely because I entirely stopped giving a fuck about keeping up appearances and started getting stuff I want (and in some cases rebuying things I'd gotten rid of). Fortunately some of the stuff I've been after is harder to get your hands on so I still get some of that chase for things... and it's for what I'd call 'the right reasons'.

I’m the same and I think you are right a lot enjoy the finding as much as the having  , and unfortunately I also think your right the way the supposed ‘kudos’ of owning something rare and expensive means more to some players that what the item does or even represents ?
As to am I concerned about others opinion of me on a gameday ? I ran my pink Bizon half of yesterday while wearing a Deadpool mask skipping around the site shouting “Francis ! Where are you ?” and at one point I managed to sneak up on these two guys who’d been accused by several reliable players of non hit taking , hosed the shit out of them when they ignored a coupe of single shots id put in to them (I was player marshaling so I can get away with it?) and as they stomped off back to there resporn I shouted out from the bushes “you just got buttfucked by a pink unicorn !” ?? ??

 

[Super64]

And that’s the thing for me as well. I love doing builds. I love sourcing the parts and putting it together. When I have the final build there’s a sense of achievement, but then I’m looking for the next build. That’s why I’ve built a few Blackhawk Down inspired guns and then sold them soon afterwards. But, I’m not anal about it. I want to get as close as possible, but I’m not going to spend god knows how much on a real Aimpoint 2000 because I can’t find an airsoft replica version. If it’s close, it’ll do. I know there is a big market in the real steel world, mainly in America, and people can get really antsy about each other’s builds. If it’s not clone correct, then it’s wrong. I think some of that is carrying over into airsoft especially with the UKSF guys pulling apart each other’s kit. 
 

For me, I’m very inspired by real world military weapons and movie weapons and they will inspire my builds. I’ll get as close as I can and if other people like it, great. If not, well as long as I’m happy, that’s all that counts.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Think the Red Alliance forum is gone now. There is still that streak of animosity in some Russian gear orientated groups. Looking down on people because they got some gear from Grey shop etc. 

i have heard of this being a thing, the russian version of the crye babies/stitch counters. never really encountered them but they sound like not my kind of people.

it's for what I'd call 'the right reasons'.

absolutely, the only person who needs to think it's cool is you.

i'm sure i'd drive the aforementioned red alliance nuts off the walls with a 1p63 and repro 2dp strapped to what's almost certainly the "wrong" rifle, with a grey shop smersh and digi flora.

meanwhile most normal people see someone in some russian shit carrying an ak with some russian abomination of an optic strapped to the top.

 

[alxndrhll]

i have heard of this being a thing, the russian version of the crye babies/stitch counters. never really encountered them but they sound like not my kind of people.

I will say that I think it's important to maintain some self awareness that speaking ill/talking down on folks because you disagree with their idea of what's fun/important kinda lands you in a pot, kettle, black situation.

I've tried to be as careful as I can to not dip into derogatory terms for the sake of it, doing so just ensures the vicious cycle of fragmented groups continues. Not that I'm naive enough to think it's somethingt hat would ever stop but whatever ?‍.

And just to be clear, their are multiple instances of needlessly dipping into being actively against someones idea of fun (hell, I even highlighted I'd done it in my initial post) so wasn't intending to quote you to call/single you out... it was just the most convenient. Not at all saying we should stop having a whinge about things we disagree on, just wanted to highlight that we can't really sit here on our Holier-Than-Thou thrones while doing the exact thing that we're whinging about... just so happens our opinion tends to be more popular around these parts so it's easier to have it validated/supported.

TLDR - We can't really sit here saying 'everyone should just do what they find fun, fuck everyone else'... while slating something others find fun, even if we disagree with their methods it's hypocritical.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I will say that I think it's important to maintain some self awareness that speaking ill/talking down on folks because you disagree with their idea of what's fun/important kinda lands you in a pot, kettle, black situation.

a fair point, the distinction i thinking of was between people who absolutely must have the correct loadout for themselves, and the type to "look down" on others for being insufficiently funded/motivated to match their levels of dedication to loadout correctness.

granted crye baby/stitch counter is a derogatory term, but i'm not sure what other term would conveniently describe the personalities i'm trying to refer to.

 

[alxndrhll]

a fair point, the distinction i thinking of was between people who absolutely must have the correct loadout for themselves, and the type to "look down" on others for being insufficiently funded/motivated to match their levels of dedication to loadout correctness.

granted crye baby/stitch counter is a derogatory term, but i'm not sure what other term would conveniently describe the personalities i'm trying to refer to.

Aye, truthfully I've never personally encountered the latter. I imagine they're something you're more likely to come across in groups/forums for those with that specific shared interest, as it's not an interest I have it makes sense I've not personally come across it.

I'm not sure I'd say they're particularly derogatory, but I'm also not a person that would find them derogatory even if it was to turn out I fell into either camp (chances are I actually fall into both in some degree). Seems like a similar case to the first, with the differentiating factor not being that you have/are into fancy kit/RIFs/impressions but more so how much you seek to enforce/impose that onto others?

As an example, there have absolutely been instances on this forum where I've seen photos of 'loadouts' and had... lets go ahead and call them 'thoughts' about what's been said alongside what I'm seeing. I'm just old enough and wise enough to keep my mouth shut because I figured out pretty quickly on here that folks are generally looking for positive reinforcement on purchasing descisions in those threads more than they are actual critique. A bit of a 'know your audience' case toa  degree imo.

 

[Cannonfodder]

Exactly. If you enjoy putting together a perfect impression then good for you, and I respect anyone for putting in the time and effort. However the moment anyone starts ripping into someone else for their choices then that respect is gone. 

Fortunately these sort of people are the minority out on the field

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Aye, truthfully I've never personally encountered the latter. I imagine they're something you're more likely to come across in groups/forums for those with that specific shared interest, as it's not an interest I have it makes sense I've not personally come across it.

suppose that's a fair point, if you don't actively go looking for it then much less likely to encounter it.

I'm not sure I'd say they're particularly derogatory, but I'm also not a person that would find them derogatory even if it was to turn out I fell into either camp (chances are I actually fall into both in some degree). Seems like a similar case to the first, with the differentiating factor not being that you have/are into fancy kit/RIFs/impressions but more so how much you seek to enforce/impose that onto others?

As an example, there have absolutely been instances on this forum where I've seen photos of 'loadouts' and had... lets go ahead and call them 'thoughts' about what's been said alongside what I'm seeing. I'm just old enough and wise enough to keep my mouth shut because I figured out pretty quickly on here that folks are generally looking for positive reinforcement on purchasing descisions in those threads more than they are actual critique. A bit of a 'know your audience' case toa  degree imo.

i guess it's a double edged sword.

i do agree with the issue of doing the whole "loadout posting" thing, you're always gonna find a few people who love it, a few people who hate it, and most folk either ambivalent or who simply can't be bothered to comment. certainly expecting (or even worse insisting) on getting nothing but positive feedback on a loadout post on the internet is somewhat naive.

of course there's criticism that's constructive, and criticism that's a put-down, and that can be a tricky line as to wether the person has made a mistake but who would want to rectify it if you told them versus someone who took a shortcut because they're happy with close enough. not always easy to tell either.