Military Group Youtube

[Marauder211]

Okay, so i came across this German (i think) YouTube channel called Military Group. All these guys seem to do whenever airsoft is mentioned is rag on it and show their distaste for it. These two videos are a good example of this. If anybody thinks i'm wrong do say so, because i won't take offense. I just want to know what everyone here thinks of this.

 

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

I would have though that active duty soldiers have more to worry about that a bunch of people playing airsoft. 

 

[Resistor170]

I didn't watch because I don't think I need to at this point. I'm not a soldier so any current or ex servicemen tell me if I am wrong but aren't soldiers just people like all of us? I reckon some people think airsoft is stupid and some people don't. Now... If I am right about soldiers being human then I reckon that applies to them too. Watching the video might help me understand what you are saying more, but personally I don't like to gear up replicating real soldiers because I would feel I am dishounouring the sacrifice they make and greater sacrifice they may make in real life. I'll be in the minority there and don't have a problem with anyone that does, (or I'd have picked the wrong hobby ?) but it doesn't bother me if a few blokes think airsoft is dumb

 

[TheFull9]

I've watched that 2nd video before, I remember distinctly agreeing with their assessment.  I disagree with 'ragging on' tbh, I found their assessment of a lot of the delusional mil-simmers out there to be entirely valid and representative of what I've seen myself.

 

[Tommikka]

The second video is widely discussed here:

 

[Druid799]

I didn't watch because I don't think I need to at this point. I'm not a soldier so any current or ex servicemen tell me if I am wrong but aren't soldiers just people like all of us? 

Click to shrink...

Now not singling you out bud (your just the first to voice an opinion) but how can you say anything about this subject if you haven’t watched either of the videos ? 

Ive just watched them and basically I agree with everything said in both videos , I don’t think either was ragging on Airsoft at all and to be honest I think the only players who would take offence are as CKinnerley said ‘the delusional mil-simmers’ (luckily mostly in the minority) you sometimes come across out there . My take is there saying it could work as an additional form of training but no way could it replace proper training , which you have to be fair is a f**king ridiculous idea to start ! 

Ive always said and always will the name ‘mil-sim’ is wrong and quite frankly misleading , these type of events should be call ‘full immersion’ events or ‘full scenario’ events or somthing like that not mil-sim as the few I went too bore absolutely no resemblance to any real military action bar the fact you’ve got two or three different ‘factions’ trying complete objectives and kill each other ! 

 

[Tackle]

I've served, & have met serving & ex forces that look down their noses at all aspects of Airsoft in general, fine, that's their sometimes ill informed opinion & their entitled to it, even if it is borderline ignorant ( my opinion on most of these guys is they're usually the same kinda guys who refer to all other regiments as "craphats", which I hate with a passion).

but by the same degree I hate it when I see or hear airsofters behaving like "operators", as if they literally think they're the real deal & our gaming is a matter of life or death.

to everyone I say, "it's a game, get over yourselves " ?

 

[Resistor170]

Now not singling you out bud (your just the first to voice an opinion) but how can you say anything about this subject if you haven’t watched either of the videos ? 

Ive just watched them and basically I agree with everything said in both videos , I don’t think either was ragging on Airsoft at all and to be honest I think the only players who would take offence are as CKinnerley said ‘the delusional mil-simmers’ (luckily mostly in the minority) you sometimes come across out there . My take is there saying it could work as an additional form of training but no way could it replace proper training , which you have to be fair is a f**king ridiculous idea to start ! 

Ive always said and always will the name ‘mil-sim’ is wrong and quite frankly misleading , these type of events should be call ‘full immersion’ events or ‘full scenario’ events or somthing like that not mil-sim as the few I went too bore absolutely no resemblance to any real military action bar the fact you’ve got two or three different ‘factions’ trying complete objectives and kill each other ! 

Click to shrink...

Granted fair point but I was going by what the OP had written about the content and also that I haven't watched it at that point as I didn't think I needed to. Because my whole point was about some people will like it and some people will not. I still don't think I need to watch it but if I had planned on getting deeper involved in the topic (which I'm not) then of course I would have to watch it. 

 

[Druid799]

Granted fair point but I was going by what the OP had written about the content and also that I haven't watched it at that point as I didn't think I needed to. Because my whole point was about some people will like it and some people will not. I still don't think I need to watch it but if I had planned on getting deeper involved in the topic (which I'm not) then of course I would have to watch it. 

Click to shrink...

But what you’ve said here is just emphasizing that you don’t know what was said in the video but your more than happy to stick with the miss conception you've created purely from someone else’s opinion about the content of it rather than ACTUALLY find out what the truth of it is your self ? 

Not exactly showing your self in the best light are you bud ?  

 

[Seven]

But what you’ve said here is just emphasizing that you don’t know what was said in the video but your more than happy to stick with the miss conception you've created purely from someone else’s opinion about the content of it rather than ACTUALLY find out what the truth of it is your self ? 

Not exactly showing your self in the best light are you bud ?  

Click to shrink...

Perhaps marauderism is his chosen religion dude! Sounds freakishly similar to me! ???

 

[Resistor170]

But what you’ve said here is just emphasizing that you don’t know what was said in the video but your more than happy to stick with the miss conception you've created purely from someone else’s opinion about the content of it rather than ACTUALLY find out what the truth of it is your self ? 

Not exactly showing your self in the best light are you bud ?  

Click to shrink...

OK, I don't want to be putting myself in a bad light or like I am coming across argumentative. I'm happy to admit if I am completely wrong after watching the video and if I am then I have been an idiot... No big deal. But judging by what you are saying to me, or not saying to me, I think maybe you are missing my point. Let me just try and clearly explain why I wrote the reply without watching. 

The original poster wrote"Okay, so i came across this German (i think) YouTube channel called Military Group. All these guys seem to do whenever airsoft is mentioned is rag on it and show their distaste for it. These two videos are a good example of this. If anybody thinks i'm wrong do say so, because i won't take offense. I just want to know what everyone here thinks of this." 

He's asked the question that to me can be answered without watching. My point was anyone can think whatever they want. Unless these guys are saying they intend to harm or kill anyone who plays airsoft, then I don't mind what they say.

To me that opinion was worth sharing. If the OP said check out these videos and tell me what you think then I wouldn't be replying until I watched it.

Blimey, the OP even said these are two 'examples' of this! So he has made his point in his words already. 

Alright... Am I looking like a proper lemon still or am I actually safe? Break it to me however you want... 

And sorry OP if you took offence at me not watching, as I thought I didn't have to

 

[Seven]

OK, I don't want to be putting myself in a bad light or like I am coming across argumentative. I'm happy to admit if I am completely wrong after watching the video and if I am then I have been an idiot... No big deal. But judging by what you are saying to me, or not saying to me, I think maybe you are missing my point. Let me just try and clearly explain why I wrote the reply without watching. 

The original poster wrote"Okay, so i came across this German (i think) YouTube channel called Military Group. All these guys seem to do whenever airsoft is mentioned is rag on it and show their distaste for it. These two videos are a good example of this. If anybody thinks i'm wrong do say so, because i won't take offense. I just want to know what everyone here thinks of this." 

He's asked the question that to me can be answered without watching. My point was anyone can think whatever they want. Unless these guys are saying they intend to harm or kill anyone who plays airsoft, then I don't mind what they say.

To me that opinion was worth sharing. If the OP said check out these videos and tell me what you think then I wouldn't be replying until I watched it.

Blimey, the OP even said these are two 'examples' of this! So he has made his point in his words already. 

Alright... Am I looking like a proper lemon still or am I actually safe? Break it to me however you want... 

And sorry OP if you took offence at me not watching, as I thought I didn't have to

Click to shrink...

I think the point that Druid was making (correct me if im wrong, Druid) was that you had formed an opinion based on the words of another, without looking at the evidence provided yourself.

You didn't know what part or parts of airsoft these guys disliked or their reasoning for their distaste.

You were right in saying that serving or ex military are human, but I can assure you we are, for the most part, wired VERY differently to the rest of the population.

Our humour for a start.

It was a standing joke with the guys I spent time with that if a civvie ever heard a conversation between squaddies that they would be horrified, report it to the police and we would likely be jailed. There is no censor. They don't think twice about ripping the piss out of sensitive or taboo subjects that would curdle most people's stomachs, so assuming that an active/ex serviceman/woman thinks the same way as you is a little far from the mark and some branches are worse than others.

I served with a few marines over the course of my time and some of the shit those guys get up to 'for shits and giggles' shocked even the army blokes.

I know blokes who hate ANYONE wearing real camo, active or historic, for any reason unless they earned the right to do so.

I also know blokes who don't care.

But I think I would struggle to find ANY serviceman/woman who would look kindly on people running around thinking that their hobby is in any way close to the real deal.

So the context is quite important. The OP said they 'rag' on Airsoft but didn't state why, or what parts, which is important to the entire narrative, hence looking at the supporting evidence is probably a good idea.

 

[Resistor170]

I think the point that Druid was making (correct me if im wrong, Druid) was that you had formed an opinion based on the words of another, without looking at the evidence provided yourself.

You didn't know what part or parts of airsoft these guys disliked or their reasoning for their distaste.

You were right in saying that serving or ex military are human, but I can assure you we are, for the most part, wired VERY differently to the rest of the population.

Our humour for a start.

It was a standing joke with the guys I spent time with that if a civvie ever heard a conversation between squaddies that they would be horrified, report it to the police and we would likely be jailed. There is no censor. They don't think twice about ripping the piss out of sensitive or taboo subjects that would curdle most people's stomachs, so assuming that an active/ex serviceman/woman thinks the same way as you is a little far from the mark and some branches are worse than others.

I served with a few marines over the course of my time and some of the shit those guys get up to 'for shits and giggles' shocked even the army blokes.

I know blokes who hate ANYONE wearing real camo, active or historic, for any reason unless they earned the right to do so.

I also know blokes who don't care.

But I think I would struggle to find ANY serviceman/woman who would look kindly on people running around thinking that their hobby is in any way close to the real deal.

So the context is quite important. The OP said they 'rag' on Airsoft but didn't state why, or what parts, which is important to the entire narrative, hence looking at the supporting evidence is probably a good idea.

Click to shrink...

?  I'll just give up after this one, I've said enough, it really doesn't matter this much and neither does my opinion ?.

I never meant servicemen are exactly the same as us, all civvies aren't the same blah blah. Yeah I am sure there is definitely a common 'wiring' between soldiers but the example you made about humour in servicemen is exactly the same humour as me and a few old colleagues and some mates have. Other than we never joked about people calling the police on us if they heard us... what the **** is that about ?! You've just made yourselves sound like naughty schoolkids to me. You're trying to say that's non civvie humour!? ? Or soldier only? Or squaddie only? ?

One of your points... 

"I know blokes who hate ANYONE wearing real camo, active or historic, for any reason unless they earned the right to do so.

I also know blokes who don't care.

But I think I would struggle to find ANY serviceman/woman who would look kindly on people running around thinking that their hobby is in any way close to the real deal."

This is the similar reason why I don't dress up exactly like a real soldier, I have been mates with a couple, one lost more than a limb and I would feel like a t**t dressing up in the same gear he had on and the same gun going pew pew to other people, knowing there are no ieds in the woods here. I said that in my first post here. I imagined it might be in the video somewhere. If it is or isn't doesn't matter. But if other people want to then I don't care, maybe some do it because they want to be likes their heroes, maybe some because they think their hard I don't know, it's not something I have ever bothered thinking about. Airsoft is about having fun at the end of the day. 

Let me try to put it in another way (this is just role play ?) ... You (seven) are a football fan. You are on a football fan forum. A fellow member puts up a post about some rugby fans showing their distaste for football and a couple of videos with them saying why etc. Personally I can say, "let them (in the video) think what they want, but I'd rather not bother watching the videos". Main difference being footballers aren't pretending to be rugby players but principle is the same. 

Bottom line is this thread wasn't interesting enough for me to really get involved in, but worth me putting a' peace and love and freedom of speech ' comment in based on an assumption that the OP's description of in the video they showed distaste for airsoft was correct. Did you read the OP' s post and think nah they say how much they love airsoft in the videos? ?. 

And lastly - maybe, hopefully, and probably the only thing I needed to say - I reckon druid skimmed through what the op said, then saw me start by saying "I didn't watch the videos but" and then got irritated, made his mind up that he had to say something. 

Poor Marauders thread has been swamped by this sh**e instead. 

Right, done. Thumbs hurt from typing. 

 

[Seven]

@Resistor170

Regarding the humour, I don't think you quite understand how deeply dark, twisted and distasteful the humour can get. Im not going to elaborate too much but for a pretty tame example, since you like roleplay, hahaha, try this out...

Soldier A and B are out on the piss.

Soldier A is in the middle of a conversation with you.

Soldier B walks up to soldier A and appears to hug him from the side.

Soldier A just continues his conversation with you.

You notice the 'hug' is lasting longer than normal and upon further inspection you notice that soldier B is actually taking a piss in Soldier A's pocket.

Both of them act like it's the most normal thing in the world and have a good chuckle.

Sound like anything you and your mates would do, if so, remind me to never go on the piss with you, lol

To be clear, in that scenario 'you' was actually me and a bunch of the guys in my unit and they were marines.

So yes, military humour is, again, more often than not, very very very far removed from normal, mentally balanced civvie humour and sometimes even different between branches.

Now as for the scenario of the football v rugby. The key difference between that and the actual topic is that in the rugby v football scenario you said 'let them think what the want' and left it like that. Which is perfectly fine.

However when talking about the OP's subject you didn't stop there. You elaborated and apparently assumed that the video was about dressing up like a soldier when in actual fact the bulk of the issue for those guys in the videos was regarding the mentality of some Airsoft players to think that their hobby is like the real thing and being especially arrogant about it, berating/belittling other players when they themselves don't have a clue. Taking it way too seriously. It's a game and its supposed to be fun for all, it's not possible to apply military tactics in a game of airsoft, or a video game for that matter, especially when your opponent is not of the same mindset.

For example... you can apply all the suppressive fire you want but without the fear of real mortal danger there is nothing to stop them running through your rain of fire, dodging BB's like they are in the matrix and slotting you with a spud gun, or getting shot and just respawning, but berating people over their chosen style of playing the game just because it's not 'real enough' is ridiculous and honestly, I've seen people on this forum, not as much belittling people, but clearly saying that they hate a certain way of playing just because it's 'unrealistic'. 

That's the point the videos were making. They had little to no issue with guys wearing camo and rigs (insignia aside) and running around with toy weapons, they actually had a blast playing Airsoft.

But honestly, if, as you say, you were not interested in the topic enough to even take the time to understand it, why even chime in? That's a bit rude, is it not?

That would be like someone jumping into a topic you created and saying: 'This topic is boring' and adding nothing more of value.

 

[Resistor170]

@Resistor170

Regarding the humour, I don't think you quite understand how deeply dark, twisted and distasteful the humour can get. Im not going to elaborate too much but for a pretty tame example, since you like roleplay, hahaha, try this out...

Soldier A and B are out on the piss.

Soldier A is in the middle of a conversation with you.

Soldier B walks up to soldier A and appears to hug him from the side.

Soldier A just continues his conversation with you.

You notice the 'hug' is lasting longer than normal and upon further inspection you notice that soldier B is actually taking a piss in Soldier A's pocket.

Both of them act like it's the most normal thing in the world and have a good chuckle.

Sound like anything you and your mates would do, if so, remind me to never go on the piss with you, lol

To be clear, in that scenario 'you' was actually me and a bunch of the guys in my unit and they were marines.

So yes, military humour is, again, more often than not, very very very far removed from normal, mentally balanced civvie humour and sometimes even different between branches.

Now as for the scenario of the football v rugby. The key difference between that and the actual topic is that in the rugby v football scenario you said 'let them think what the want' and left it like that. Which is perfectly fine.

However when talking about the OP's subject you didn't stop there. You elaborated and apparently assumed that the video was about dressing up like a soldier when in actual fact the bulk of the issue for those guys in the videos was regarding the mentality of some Airsoft players to think that their hobby is like the real thing and being especially arrogant about it, berating/belittling other players when they themselves don't have a clue. Taking it way too seriously. It's a game and its supposed to be fun for all, it's not possible to apply military tactics in a game of airsoft, or a video game for that matter, especially when your opponent is not of the same mindset.

For example... you can apply all the suppressive fire you want but without the fear of real mortal danger there is nothing to stop them running through your rain of fire, dodging BB's like they are in the matrix and slotting you with a spud gun, or getting shot and just respawning, but berating people over their chosen style of playing the game just because it's not 'real enough' is ridiculous and honestly, I've seen people on this forum, not as much belittling people, but clearly saying that they hate a certain way of playing just because it's 'unrealistic'. 

That's the point the videos were making. They had little to no issue with guys wearing camo and rigs (insignia aside) and running around with toy weapons, they actually had a blast playing Airsoft.

But honestly, if, as you say, you were not interested in the topic enough to even take the time to understand it, why even chime in? That's a bit rude, is it not?

That would be like someone jumping into a topic you created and saying: 'This topic is boring' and adding nothing more of value.

Click to shrink...

I pretty much agree with everything you said... After you gave a different example about the humour then my answer is no, ha, my mates general humour wouldn't be like that but one mate did piss on my leg for about a second when we were taking a piss in the pub. I misunderstood the humour to be more verbal than physical. 

The second point, I said before I did assume part of it would be about airsofters pretending to be real soldiers...my mess up if that's not what it was about. 

As said before I think my view is worth sharing anyway, it's about not caring what other people think. In a day and age where everyone is hyper obsessed with every word everyone says on social media ett. It is a joke. So no I don't think that was rude. But after druid and now you bombarding me with this stuff it has come out that I couldn't care less myself ha, but never would have said that to to OP. 

 

[Marauder211]

I do feel that these guys look down their noses a bit towards airsofters. Now i have seen my fair share of people who take the game too seriously (i leave them to it). I don't feel that doing an impression build is dishonouring anyone so long as you don't display regimental patches and/or pretend that you serve(d). I posted this to gain a bit of insight as to what you guys think of the videos. I did indeed choose my religion, seven... I don't think you'll like it though, it's a bit too mediaeval .

I didn't intend to start a flame war.

 

[Adolf Hamster]

tbh this feels like it's no more militant than some of the types you see airsofting (the stitch counter/walt variety) and if anything it's just a push back against those kinds of airsofters.

i do think there are some insights can be gotten from airsoft, it's certainly given me a bit more respect for servicemen who have to be much more cautious because a mistaken target is a friend in the morgue or being the second to fire can mean you're dead. i guess this is what they mean when they say it's an add-on for the likes of cqb training.

i do agree with their point about respecting the weapon, the standards of safety you see in airsoft are atrocious, hell i've been there myself and tbh i reckon most folks will have made at least one stupid mistake in their time.

their points on the guns themselves are very valid, but of course that's a technical limitation, i'm sure if it were possible to have a gun that could go toe to toe with a real one in terms of handling, range and accuracy yet remain safe to fire at people we'd all be jumping on it, it's only thanks to some incredibly clever physics trickery that our pews can even shoot far enough to make the sport appealing at all.

one thing they didn't mention, but which i think is very relevant is that we go for a day, maybe a couple, then go home to our nice warm beds grabbing a chippy on the way home, we don't have to deal with keeping our kit clean and functional with the minimum of support for weeks or months at a time, our guns break we can tinker with them in a nice warm workhop, tbh i think anyone who's had to trek for miles with a ton of gear in the freezing rain day in day out is probably going to get a bit salty when weekend warriors start claiming it's anything more than a strange hobby and an excuse for a bit of exercise.

fortunately at least where i am we're mostly free from the walts, people do do impression loadouts but never to claim anything more than they think it looks cool or they like how comfy (insert item of tac gear here) is. hell i've just got myself a gorka and smersh but i've never claimed my fat ass could even get on to basic training in the russian army let alone actually last longer than 5 minutes.

i suppose a good way of putting it is these guys see us the same way we would see a kid coming to airsoft from nerf, fortnite dancing round the place and thinking he's a pro player because he once got a killstreak in call of duty.

 

[Druid799]

@Seven Yup you got my point 100% , so yes you are correct good sir .

@Resistor170 Actually I did read it all , and no I didn’t think after reading your post  “that’s irritating me I must comment on it ” to be honest bud my first thought when I had read it was “if he hasn’t even watched it how can he comment ? he’s talking out of his arse !” But I did think I shouldn't use THAT particular description of how I felt you response appeared , hence how I did word it .  

As to military humour until you’ve actually experienced it first hand you’ll never appreciate it ! 

For example there was a game we sometimes played in the pub called ‘freckles’ . 

You form a circle around a table and a very large turd is placed in the centre (weather a fresh human or animal Richard the 3rd depends on your unit) you all then kneel down and place your chin on the table , someone will then count to ten and drop a big glass ash tray on to it causing it to splash out in all directions , the winner is the player with the most ‘freckles’ as he or she (new a few girls who’d play as well) had kept there chin on the table the longest and so became the winner .

I rest my case . 

 

[Resistor170]

@Seven Yup you got my point 100% , so yes you are correct good sir .

@Resistor170 Actually I did read it all , and no I didn’t think after reading your post  “that’s irritating me I must comment on it ” to be honest bud my first thought when I had read it was “if he hasn’t even watched it how can he comment ? he’s talking out of his arse !” But I did think I shouldn't use THAT particular description of how I felt you response appeared , hence how I did word it .  

As to military humour until you’ve actually experienced it first hand you’ll never appreciate it ! 

For example there was a game we sometimes played in the pub called ‘freckles’ . 

You form a circle around a table and a very large turd is placed in the centre (weather a fresh human or animal Richard the 3rd depends on your unit) you all then kneel down and place your chin on the table , someone will then count to ten and drop a big glass ash tray on to it causing it to splash out in all directions , the winner is the player with the most ‘freckles’ as he or she (new a few girls who’d play as well) had kept there chin on the table the longest and so became the winner .

I rest my case . 

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Yeah we already cleared that up about the military humour... I was misunderstood. And I don't think I would appreciate it if I experienced it ?, I know that's not how you used the word appreciate though. 

But still... Still ?... you totally misunderstand why I said what I said. It wasn't talking about what was in the video (like I clearly, clearly... Clearly! said I didn't watch the video). It was more directed at the question itself, which is still a valid (and not rude) thing to say. It was based on principle that it shouldn't matter what other people think. 99% sure if it wasn't for all the nonsense about it then it would have been the least helpful answer to the OP though! 

But you seem to think I was commenting on the video itself. Is that it? If that's what you think then yes that would be a ridiculous thing for me to do. 

 

[Druid799]

Think best thing all round is just write this all off as a classic example of why ANY disagreement on the internet will always go totally to rat shit due to misunderstandings from the flat soulless medium that is text . Agreeded ? ?