Traffic Stop with rifs in car

[sonofsammo]

Last night nothing bad happened. Which is nice.
However, it could have quite easily - and it got me thinking.
I was coming back from CQB in Leeds and due to me being a fucktard, I had ended up speeding in a 50, just prior to it being a 70.
There was a chap before close to my boot during the process and he stayed there.
There were no street lights, so I couldn't see easily that it was a police car. But.... It was a police car.
They followed me, as I did 70, for a few miles, then got bored and accelerated off.
But it got me thinking.
In the case of a traffic stop, when you have RIF's in the vehicle (in this case, they were out of sight in the boot), what 
a) Should you do?
b) Are you legally required to do?
c) Can the police ask for?
d) Are the Police allowed to do?
Cos I really don't fancy having my rifs destroyed whilst afaik (wrt the rifs at least) legally going about my business...
Is there any actual official guidance anywhere on what to do in this instance?
TIA
?

 

[Crazy_Crystal]

official guidance is a bit thin on the ground unfortunately. but I have a friend on the force and he's always said just pass the attitude test. if you are open and cooperate fully then things should go smoothly, if you wind them up then they are probably going to be a bit heavy handed... genuinely being polite, it's amazing what it gets you ?

as far as what you should do and what you are required to do; be open and explain that you have rifs in the car and you'll probably have to explain what they are too.

they are entitled to search the car if they suspect that you are hiding something, whether that is drugs or weapons, or if they suspect that the car is not roadworthy. and upon finding a rif they are likely to ask for a defence for having a rif in public such as a booking for a game or a receipt from a tech that you have just left etc.

I guess it's a little bit of common sense, but that is easier than dealing with a slightly panicked copper who believes they have discovered an arms dealer.

anyway I hope that helps, even if it is a bit long winded.

 

[Druid799]

If there out of site I’d say there’s no reason to mention them , and if there visible ? “WHY THE F**K ARE THEY VISIBLE YOU COCK !” ?‍??

Comes down to what previous poster said if your not acting the gobby twat then there shouldn’t be any reason for them to need to know what’s in your car .?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

It had crossed my mind, i suspect crystals theory about the attitude test is going to count for a lot in your favour, especially if you take the time to fully explain the situation.

I imagine it's possible a grumpy or ignorant officer could very well confiscate them but i doubt they'd be destroyed when handed over to whoever's job it is to do that on the basis they're gonna know its not a gun.

As for druid's remark about display, you ever tried to hide an mg42 in the back seat of an e90? Not so easy

 

[Druid799]

you ever tried to hide an mg42 in the back seat of an e90? Not so easy

Well if your going to drive an old mans car what you expect ! ????

im more referring to the dumb shits you usual see leaving the site in there mums Clio or what ever with a G&G combat machine in its original box stuck in the boot space with nothing covering it ! ?

 

[GrimSqueeker]

Attitude test is the quintessential yard stick. Fail that and generally my sense of humour also fails. of course your mileage may vary depending on Time of Day/ Type of Day/ how close they are to Refs, or if the day has previously been full of Knobheads.

Rule of thumb, is treat them as you would want to be treated, after all they are Human ( well mostly, some traffic wanks have had sense of humour removed surgically). 

Worst case scenario , stopped by an ARV, solved with High protein Crayola ?.

View attachment 41205

 

[Greg147]

Be friendly and explain the situation. What happens next entirely depends on the officer, but I'd say most (if not all) are aware that airsoft is a thing, even if they can't themselves necessarily differentiate between a RIF and the real article. Having airsoft-y things, primarily the BBs, would make things a bit clearer. Worst case I'd say a firearms unit will be called to look over and maybe seize, but more likely just look over. 

So long as you've got a legitimate reason for them being in your car (and are transporting them out of view of the pubic), then you've committed no offenses, and should be all good.

 

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

im more referring to the dumb shits you usual see leaving the site in there mums Clio or what ever with a G&G combat machine in its original box stuck in the boot space with nothing covering it ! ?

Wait a minute...

 

[Adolf Hamster]

Well if your going to drive an old mans car what you expect ! ????

im more referring to the dumb shits you usual see leaving the site in there mums Clio or what ever with a G&G combat machine in its original box stuck in the boot space with nothing covering it ! ?

Tbf the origjnal box isnt such a bad idea, shows its an airsoft gun, as opposed to my "**** it just dump it in the boot and drop me jacket on top" method.

And yes i'm expecting a bollocking for that if i ever get stopped.

 

[Druid799]

Problem I’d say with having it in the original box that can be seen is all people see is a box that’s big enough to hold a gun AND has a picture of a gun on it so there for it is a gun and your going on a mad rampage with it ! 90% of the population of the country couldn’t tell the difference between a £5 market springer and a real gun and we’ve all seen the sensationalist headlines associated with all kinds of ‘projectile impliments’ To know first hint of a gun half the world will total loose there shit at the site of it or even just the mention of any kind of gun .

in the 19yrs I’ve been playing on the 4 occasions I’ve had any kind of interaction with police that’s been Airsoft related , the police have been absolutely clueless about the guns , the kit OR the VCR bill ! So I’ve always been of the ‘if they don’t ask don’t tell and out of site , out of mind’ mentality when transporting my kit .

 

[Guest]

My Bro is one of our finest, Essex River Police, and he says exactly the above. Pass the attitude test first, then explain as necessary. ??

 

[clumpyedge]

My Bro is one of our finest, Essex River Police, and he says exactly the above. Pass the attitude test first, then explain as necessary. ??

Exactly this. I was pleasant but still when I was pulled over they still wanted to take a look in my car after a day of marshalling. I explained calmly about what was in the car and exactly where it was. After a bit of explaining what airsoft is they wanted them double checked which I appreciate to them I could have been spinning any old shit if they hadn’t heard of airsoft before so a quick chat with the ARV lads and I was on my way. 

My way of thinking is treat everyone as if they dont don’t know what a spud gun is and so long as you don’t come across as a complete dick then usually people appreciate the chat and show more interest than anything else!

 

[Rogerborg]

In the case of a traffic stop, when you have RIF's in the vehicle (in this case, they were out of sight in the boot), what 
a) Should you do?
b) Are you legally required to do?
c) Can the police ask for?
d) Are the Police allowed to do?

a) Depends.  Be polite either way, although polite doesn't mean obsequious.  Try to stay calm, and take a deep breath and think before opening your mouth.

If you're on your way to or from an airsoft skirmish at an insured site, or have some other reasonable excuse as per Firearms Act 1968 S19, then don't fret, you'll be fine in the long term.  That said, don't volunteer any information or proactively invite a search.  However, if you're camoed to the nines and blab that you've been out playing toy soldiers in the woods, you may end up giving a copper grounds (reasonable or otherwise) to search your vehicle.

If it becomes clear that's going to happen, then tell them exactly what they're going to find, and what it is, and more importantly, isn't.  I'd have no hesitation in referring to my "UKARA licence" under those circumstances in the full knowledge that it's not a licence and is irrelevant to both ownership and possession (the copper is unlikely to know any of that).  I'd refer to my RIFs as "low powered electric toy guns", then only clarify that as airsoft if it gets called in.  Airsoft is "paintball without the paint".

If you don't have a reasonable excuse then you'll get little sympathy from me because I've flagged up FA S19 often enough, and always recommended having booking or attendance information instantly to hand.  If you get shirty about being searched, or start filming, expect things to go south fast and don't be under any illusions that we have the same obsession with process or "clean hands" evidence that you'll see in Septic cop shows.  Just whatever happens, stay calm, and the moment that you're cautioned, stop talking and obtain legal advice.

b) Nothing except to give your name, address, date of birth, and to provide your driving licence, proof of insurance and MOT.  You do not have to say where you've been or where you are going.  Failure to do so should not by itself constitute reasonable grounds for a search, but if you're wearing tacticool gear and have a boot full of RIFs, I wouldn't get too I-know-my-rights.  If you've got your reasonable excuse, then you've got nothing to fear, and so you've got nothing to hide.

c) They can ask for anything, whether they have any statutory powers to do so or not.  They can make mistakes about those powers, or not know, or claim to not know the law, although PACE search and seizure is the one thing that I'd expect any warranted constable to be clear on.  They are very unlikely to know anything about airsoft.

d) A constable may search any person or vehicle, or anything which is in or on a vehicle, for stolen or prohibited articles and may detain a person or vehicle for the purpose of such a search, and to seize the articles, if he has reasonable grounds for suspecting that he will find stolen or prohibited articles. (PACE 1984 S1).

I highlight the important bit.  It's an entirely subjective criteria, and there's a huge body of often contradictory case law about what has and hasn't been held to be reasonable.  And again, even if it's later held that the search was unreasonable, it doesn't mean that you can't be convicted based on evidence that it turned up, so friendly and open and informative is the way to go the instant it becomes clear that the copper would like to know what it's got in its pockets.

 

[The Beni]

Going to put it out there, why would you worry about it when you will have the bbs with them, mags out and any battery disconnected. Just be polite and tell them they are their if you need too

 

[Rogerborg]

Going to put it out there, why would you worry about it when you will have the bbs with them, mags out and any battery disconnected

Because having an imitation firearm with you in a public place is an offence.  Unless you have a reasonable excuse, the proof whereof lies on you.

On your way to or from an airsoft skirmish with a booking or where people can vouch for you: unlikely to be a problem.

Just left it in your car from last weekend, dunno why, Constable: might be a problem.

Folk have been convicted for possessing bright orange springers. 

 

[Prisce]

Because having an imitation firearm with you in a public place is an offence.  Unless you have a reasonable excuse, the proof whereof lies on you.

On your way to or from an airsoft skirmish with a booking or where people can vouch for you: unlikely to be a problem.

Just left it in your car from last weekend, dunno why, Constable: might be a problem.

Folk have been convicted for possessing bright orange springers. 

I had that exact gun... then I undercoated it... it now looks like this:

I think it brings out the colour of my eyes wonderfully.  And you would see them. Because you literally have to be a foot away to feel being shot with this thing.

View attachment 41313

 

[sonofsammo]

Folk have been convicted for possessing bright orange springers. 

Bloody hell - they want to try and have you every which way now!
 

View attachment 41328

What's the crime going to be called? Un-manufacturing a firearm???
What next - will airsoft retailers be reclassified as criminal gangs, due to their dubious practices of spray painting rifs bright colours, so they are no longer realistic?

 

[therobbafett]

Hi, have just joined the website so first of all, Hello everyone. 

I found the best thing to do was be polite and honest with the officer.

Explain what is in your car if asked. my nuprol case wass in the boot but has to come into the rear seats through the 40/60 split, that is why the officer saw it. She asked what it was so I told her politely and as calmly as I could give the circumstance. She asked me to very calmly take her to my boot to show her what I meant. She had a look inside my case, saw the battery, the bottle of BB’s, had a look at the email receipt from the venue I had just played at, all whilst I was trying my best to explain things. She didn’t call for armed response.

After looking at my equipment and deeming me “safe” she even asked if it hurt so I showed her my “wounds” and she laughed and asked why would you do that?! Ha

i think honesty and not being a dick is the right way forward. Obviously it depends on the officer in question. I could have easily ended up being handcuffed in the back of the police car waiting for armed response to come and deem everything safe. But hopefully that day will never come