TheFull9
Supporters
- Dec 17, 2011
- 3,650
- 2,463
Literally too many wrong assumptions in one thread. I'm not going to attempt to address every single one.
I have been in facebook messenger contact with Dean Wolfenstein who is one of the very top blokes in Spiritus (if not a co-founder), he runs all of their social media himself, takes all the pictures, makes all the posts etc etc; ex US army infantry, many deployments done in shit 99% of people here can't imagine (me included) and as far as product design he's a big contributor to the resounding success of Spiritus as a business in the US market (mil, LE, hunters, competitors etc). I founded 'the spiritus symptoms' on facebook which you can look up and was the only group about the brand last I checked; it isn't big by any means, but Dean became my co-admin shortly after I founded it, making it essentially the 'official' group for the brand. I was also talked through their line up of gear at SHOT 18 by Zane Vogel, who is definitely a co-founder and essentially the head honcho - none of that makes me special it's just facts. I don't say any of this to 'name drop' either or anything like that, they give me precisely zero free shit and I'm certainly not close friends with them, I just have some minor association, they know me just about well enough to recognise me in person. However because of that I do have an understanding ofwhat they're actually saying, whereas a lot of folks in here are labouring under very incorrect assumptions.
I watched the live stream where this issue was raised, I actually sign-posted Dean to EBA since he was curious as to which sites were selling the TMC knock-off of their Mk3 Chassis. I didn't make any comment on my opinions either way, just provided some information to a friend which he would've found eventually on his own anyway. My personal stance is that it is a very small number of people in the venn diagram sector who would've bought the original product but were dissuaded from doing so on account of the existence of the clone. However I also absolutely empathise with people who have come up with a highly innovative product and then had it reverse engineered and 100% cloned by exploitative types in China. People treat the issue like it's black and white but personally I don't believe that to be the case, there is lots of grey in the middle. Oh also the Spiritus setup doesn't cost $300, you're looking at between 160 and 200 USD for a setup (in America, where almost all their customers are) which is still not a cheap chest rig for most people, sure. But it is truly top quality and the 300 figure is (roughly) 30-45% wrong, which I would call an error margin large enough to be noteworthy at the least.
'They should have patents' well how one earth do you know they don't? As if patents stop the likes of TMC. 'This should be done through lawyers' well how exactly do you reckon you have information contrary to the fact that legal rumblings aren't being made right now, or won't be made in the near future? Please lay down your empirical, peer-reviewed data that evidences any of your claims.
Anyone who thinks the comments like Stolen Valour etc were anything but hyperbolic comedy, I implore you to send your sarcasm detectors off for calibration, because they are categorically long overdue a service. None of the comments along those lines are intended to be taken the way you are taking them, that much I can guarantee. I get why these things can come across how they do because we are ALL guilty of forgetting that we are not known/understood by most people who see what we put out there online, but again significant misunderstandings have certainly happened with regard that issue.
Anybody who has sacrificed relationships, family connections, risked huge sums of money, worked 80 hours a week for months/years on end to create a thriving business with hugely successful products from a start of nothing, but still feels Spiritus is in the wrong in terms of being disgruntled by the fact they're getting ripped off, I 1000% applaud your absolute integrity of conviction. That is a hugely impressive and balls'y thing you're doing. Though imho if you don't fit that category, you could maybe do with piping down on the issue. Then again I think the best thing about America is the 1st amendment to the constitution and if you want to just spout regardless of logic, you crack the hell on. I'm behind you all the way in that respect.
I have been in facebook messenger contact with Dean Wolfenstein who is one of the very top blokes in Spiritus (if not a co-founder), he runs all of their social media himself, takes all the pictures, makes all the posts etc etc; ex US army infantry, many deployments done in shit 99% of people here can't imagine (me included) and as far as product design he's a big contributor to the resounding success of Spiritus as a business in the US market (mil, LE, hunters, competitors etc). I founded 'the spiritus symptoms' on facebook which you can look up and was the only group about the brand last I checked; it isn't big by any means, but Dean became my co-admin shortly after I founded it, making it essentially the 'official' group for the brand. I was also talked through their line up of gear at SHOT 18 by Zane Vogel, who is definitely a co-founder and essentially the head honcho - none of that makes me special it's just facts. I don't say any of this to 'name drop' either or anything like that, they give me precisely zero free shit and I'm certainly not close friends with them, I just have some minor association, they know me just about well enough to recognise me in person. However because of that I do have an understanding ofwhat they're actually saying, whereas a lot of folks in here are labouring under very incorrect assumptions.
I watched the live stream where this issue was raised, I actually sign-posted Dean to EBA since he was curious as to which sites were selling the TMC knock-off of their Mk3 Chassis. I didn't make any comment on my opinions either way, just provided some information to a friend which he would've found eventually on his own anyway. My personal stance is that it is a very small number of people in the venn diagram sector who would've bought the original product but were dissuaded from doing so on account of the existence of the clone. However I also absolutely empathise with people who have come up with a highly innovative product and then had it reverse engineered and 100% cloned by exploitative types in China. People treat the issue like it's black and white but personally I don't believe that to be the case, there is lots of grey in the middle. Oh also the Spiritus setup doesn't cost $300, you're looking at between 160 and 200 USD for a setup (in America, where almost all their customers are) which is still not a cheap chest rig for most people, sure. But it is truly top quality and the 300 figure is (roughly) 30-45% wrong, which I would call an error margin large enough to be noteworthy at the least.
'They should have patents' well how one earth do you know they don't? As if patents stop the likes of TMC. 'This should be done through lawyers' well how exactly do you reckon you have information contrary to the fact that legal rumblings aren't being made right now, or won't be made in the near future? Please lay down your empirical, peer-reviewed data that evidences any of your claims.
Anyone who thinks the comments like Stolen Valour etc were anything but hyperbolic comedy, I implore you to send your sarcasm detectors off for calibration, because they are categorically long overdue a service. None of the comments along those lines are intended to be taken the way you are taking them, that much I can guarantee. I get why these things can come across how they do because we are ALL guilty of forgetting that we are not known/understood by most people who see what we put out there online, but again significant misunderstandings have certainly happened with regard that issue.
Anybody who has sacrificed relationships, family connections, risked huge sums of money, worked 80 hours a week for months/years on end to create a thriving business with hugely successful products from a start of nothing, but still feels Spiritus is in the wrong in terms of being disgruntled by the fact they're getting ripped off, I 1000% applaud your absolute integrity of conviction. That is a hugely impressive and balls'y thing you're doing. Though imho if you don't fit that category, you could maybe do with piping down on the issue. Then again I think the best thing about America is the 1st amendment to the constitution and if you want to just spout regardless of logic, you crack the hell on. I'm behind you all the way in that respect.
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