joshcowin
Members
- Feb 7, 2011
- 1,122
- 95
yeah,ive had plastic guns in the past and they have been okay but i seem to have a thing full metal or cnced parts
h34r: 
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Found something to hate more than the P90
- Thread starter Ian_Gere
- Start date
h34r: Fair enough, I just bought a realistically metal ICS l85 A2 myselfyeah,ive had plastic guns in the past and they have been okay but i seem to have a thing full metal or cnced parts
BBrotherwood
Members
- Jul 6, 2014
- 235
- 212
There is plenty of plastic on an L85 unless you get a DD Rail for it. Admittedly the body is metal though.
sp00n
Supporters
- Mar 27, 2013
- 2,210
- 874
dose it make me odd if i like this? :wacko: B) :lol:
This is worse, it looks like a confused FAMAS.
BBrotherwood
Members
- Jul 6, 2014
- 235
- 212
TheFull9
Supporters
- Dec 17, 2011
- 3,571
- 2,341
Whoo.. speculation central. Gotta love dem airsoft chinese whispers.
As is the story with so many carbine variants of issued rifles created throughout the last 100 years or so, there was a need for a compact weapon for aircrew, armoured vehicle crew etc. Something that had better range, accuracy, handling characteristics and magazine/ammo compatibility & capacity vs a 9mm pistol or sub-machine gun, while also being super compact (even more so than a 10.5" barreled M4). Funnily enough this is something our military has done well at over the years, many aircrew used to be issued the HK53 with the sliding stock which does collapse down extremely small yet being 556 with 30 round mags actually gives you a fighting chance against people with conventional military rifles. Then of course there's the L22 which has a much longer barrel than the HK53 (meaning better accuracy and muzzle velocity), is even more compact and takes the same mags as everyone else around you would be carrying.
I'm not sure whether the DoD actually put out any sort of contract or initiated a competition or set of trials for crewman PDW, but Magpul Industries unveiled the PDR back in 2006. Uses the conventional NATO standard for magazines and ammo in an extremely compact rifle which still maintains a long enough barrel for the 556 round to develop an effective muzzle velocity (along with numerous other advantages compared to an SMG).
Magpul Industries stopped working on it around '11 (probably no military interest) but as with the FMG/FPG before it a couple of employees carried on with finalising the external design, working together with PTS to bring the airsoft version to market. Personally I think they f'd up by coming out with the PDR-C rather than the PDR-D because the latter has some 20mm up front for modularity, a proper pistol grip and a physical selector/safety switch (one or the other).
Aesthetics... well that's about the most subjective thing in the world. The firearm itself has some shortfalls but it does the job it was designed for despite the long list of restrictions and limitations. Airsofters mostly live in a world based on guns dreamt up in the 40s and 50s, and for some reason despite most people being obsessed by 'the latest thing' in pretty much every aspect of life we're entirely stick-in-the-mud about weaponry. Not saying it's wrong to like AKMs or whatever, you can shoot BBs through whatever shaped toy you like on the weekend. Just saying that technology has moved on and when you look in to current design work you'll see the PDR actually doesn't look like a space raygun, it looks like a gun from 'today', perceptions are just skewed by the prevalence of very very old systems. A laptop or tablet would look ridiculously futuristic if everyone still had a dedicated room full to the rafters of whirring reels of tape as their home computers, but they don't, so it doesn't.
As is the story with so many carbine variants of issued rifles created throughout the last 100 years or so, there was a need for a compact weapon for aircrew, armoured vehicle crew etc. Something that had better range, accuracy, handling characteristics and magazine/ammo compatibility & capacity vs a 9mm pistol or sub-machine gun, while also being super compact (even more so than a 10.5" barreled M4). Funnily enough this is something our military has done well at over the years, many aircrew used to be issued the HK53 with the sliding stock which does collapse down extremely small yet being 556 with 30 round mags actually gives you a fighting chance against people with conventional military rifles. Then of course there's the L22 which has a much longer barrel than the HK53 (meaning better accuracy and muzzle velocity), is even more compact and takes the same mags as everyone else around you would be carrying.
I'm not sure whether the DoD actually put out any sort of contract or initiated a competition or set of trials for crewman PDW, but Magpul Industries unveiled the PDR back in 2006. Uses the conventional NATO standard for magazines and ammo in an extremely compact rifle which still maintains a long enough barrel for the 556 round to develop an effective muzzle velocity (along with numerous other advantages compared to an SMG).
Magpul Industries stopped working on it around '11 (probably no military interest) but as with the FMG/FPG before it a couple of employees carried on with finalising the external design, working together with PTS to bring the airsoft version to market. Personally I think they f'd up by coming out with the PDR-C rather than the PDR-D because the latter has some 20mm up front for modularity, a proper pistol grip and a physical selector/safety switch (one or the other).
Aesthetics... well that's about the most subjective thing in the world. The firearm itself has some shortfalls but it does the job it was designed for despite the long list of restrictions and limitations. Airsofters mostly live in a world based on guns dreamt up in the 40s and 50s, and for some reason despite most people being obsessed by 'the latest thing' in pretty much every aspect of life we're entirely stick-in-the-mud about weaponry. Not saying it's wrong to like AKMs or whatever, you can shoot BBs through whatever shaped toy you like on the weekend. Just saying that technology has moved on and when you look in to current design work you'll see the PDR actually doesn't look like a space raygun, it looks like a gun from 'today', perceptions are just skewed by the prevalence of very very old systems. A laptop or tablet would look ridiculously futuristic if everyone still had a dedicated room full to the rafters of whirring reels of tape as their home computers, but they don't, so it doesn't.
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I've got a G&G P90 and tbh I found it a little uncomfortable, a bit too short (and I'm not a tall person) post a few sessions, however I'm happy with bull pups as I still use my Ares Tavor with no problem. I know a couple of guys who have Magpul PDCs and they like them - apparently out of the box range and accuracy is very very good. Not really tried one myself though - I ought to ask to borrow one at some point.
two_zero
Members
- May 9, 2011
- 1,871
- 634
P P P P PEEEERRRFECTION!!! more like it, want one badly.
This is worse, it looks like a confused FAMAS.
:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
TheFull9
Supporters
- Dec 17, 2011
- 3,571
- 2,341
Hence why I said "The firearm itself has some shortfalls but it does the job it was designed for despite the long list of restrictions and limitations".
I specifically didn't argue the idea that it's got 'cramping' issues, but that wouldn't stop the firearm being effective as a PDW. Indeed, it would be massively more useful than anything in a pistol calibre, let alone 9mm, when the other guy probably has 762x39. The point of the post wasn't to say its' perfect, not at all, just that it makes a great deal of sense for the very specific purpose it was designed for. If you've poked around inside the cockpit of a fast jet, Apache or armoured vehicle (which I'd imagine you will have at some point) you'll know where the issues come from in terms of having incredibly limited space to store personal weapons, hence the extremely compact overall size of the rifle. Craft such as those are bad enough when viewed empty, once you add a crew in all their body armour, helmets, kit bags, comms wires, O2 lines, ejector seat straps, maps, night vision etc etc etc.... the problem is made even worse.
I can only speak for myself after handling the airsoft version that yes it is on the small side, but personally I really did not find it uncomfortably small and wouldn't have any problem using it. All I'd say myself is for the tall and long-armed to not buy the airsoft version (if they happen to find one in stock), but that's a really specific situation given how few are left floating about for sale now. Personally, I don't really like the overall ergonomics of AKs because the receivers are on the long side compared to a lot of other modern rifles, as are the stocks too generally. With an AR I never extend the stock past the first click and the fire control hand is almost touching my chest; horses for courses.
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murph
Members
- Oct 15, 2012
- 135
- 30
I actually semi - like it. From what I've seen an EoTech, a suppressor and the 30 round PMAGs can make it look sort of space-agey. I've also been thinking a lot about getting a bullpup recently, especially the TAR - 21 thingy.
But the two stage trigger thing is a definite put - off. Same reason I wouldn't buy an AUG. I'd imagine that semi only fields would be reluctant to let someone use it and I think that in an intense firefight it would be difficult to focus on ammo conservation if need be, since you have to focus on how hard you squeeze the trigger whilst needing to fire fast.
But the two stage trigger thing is a definite put - off. Same reason I wouldn't buy an AUG. I'd imagine that semi only fields would be reluctant to let someone use it and I think that in an intense firefight it would be difficult to focus on ammo conservation if need be, since you have to focus on how hard you squeeze the trigger whilst needing to fire fast.
Ian_Gere
Retired Moderator
- Apr 1, 2012
- 6,417
- 2,050
- Thread starter
- #53
TBH Chris, bullpups are hardly new anymore either and if the point is to create a PDW which gives a downed pilot, for eg, a chance against someone with a MBR, then my money is on design the thing from the ground up, because ease of use is as much a factor in the effectiveness of firearms as calibre and muzzle velocity, surely. I don't know what the answer is off the top of my head, but next to no distance between the pistol grip and off hand grip is definitely not it.
I mean, in this day and age of excellent materials science, why does the off hand grip even need to be inline? It must surely be possible to create a grip which could unfold and extend out of the side of the weapon, preferably also down like an upside down handlebar so that you don't have to hold your off hand up to the height of your shoulder, with adjustable stiffness to manage recoil throwing aim off, and you could probably design an off-centre but still perfectly stable bipod into such a thing - nylon fibre and titanium tube = light and strong = Bob's the geezer shagging your mum.
But my point wasn't that real steel similar to this had no function anyway, it was that the PDR-C is a pig ugly object without a single redeeming aesthetic feature!
I mean, in this day and age of excellent materials science, why does the off hand grip even need to be inline? It must surely be possible to create a grip which could unfold and extend out of the side of the weapon, preferably also down like an upside down handlebar so that you don't have to hold your off hand up to the height of your shoulder, with adjustable stiffness to manage recoil throwing aim off, and you could probably design an off-centre but still perfectly stable bipod into such a thing - nylon fibre and titanium tube = light and strong = Bob's the geezer shagging your mum.
But my point wasn't that real steel similar to this had no function anyway, it was that the PDR-C is a pig ugly object without a single redeeming aesthetic feature!
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H&K MP7 ... - not a bullpup I know, but it fits your requirements in that respect. Seem to remember though that the 4.6mm round (and the P90's 5.7) are not as effective as they were meant to be.
DX115FALCON
Members
- May 14, 2013
- 541
- 399
I just generally hate Magpull guns. Just makes guns look more "toyish" IMO
strewthirwin
Members
- Jan 17, 2014
- 57
- 4
I feel like the only huge p90 & PDR fan here. These are the sexiest guns out there in my opinion!
Lozart
Supporters
- Jun 24, 2013
- 8,493
- 4,941
I like P90s. Ignore Ian - if you can't plough a field with it, it's not a gun he likes.
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