40 Mike Gas Shell - 150 BB's in 0.3sec

[Lozart]

We just need sites and their owners to be aware of this thing and have a ruling for it in gameplay. Either Yes, use it under set range, etc just like a DMR/sniper role or NO, fuck off with your silly toy we don't allow those.

They've pretty much already come down in the latter camp. I don't see that there's any ambiguity coming from the sites.

 

[EvilMonkee]

Its not about distance at all but as numerous people have said all about overkill.  Someone fires that at me from 15-20m away they are getting a punch in the gob.

 

[Duff]

Its not about distance at all but as numerous people have said all about overkill.  Someone fires that at me from 15-20m away they are getting a punch in the gob.

And I'd laugh as you got escorted off site.

Seriously, the onus is on the skirmish sites to police these. I suppose you'd punch a guy in the gob for accidentally shooting you under the minimum engagement limit with a sniper? If you don't want to play against people who use this then walk off site before you start a silly fight. If I saw this and the Marshall said the player was allowed to use it I'd politely ask for my money back and go home.

Seems you're in the wrong sport sir. No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

 

[Rogerborg]

No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

It's pretty much the point of the sport.  The issue are: the levels of battery inflicted; informed consent to those levels; and the intent when they're exceeded.

 

[proffrink]

I don't feel like I'd have an issue with these if they have a minimum engagement distance, but there will always be some that will treat these like any other MOSCART so it's hard. Certainly no surprise to see them banned at urban sites.

The fact that it's a stream rather than one big load (heh) probably puts me in the 'just ban it' camp, however.

 

[Duff]

It's pretty much the point of the sport.  The issue are: the levels of battery inflicted; informed consent to those levels; and the intent when they're exceeded.

Asides from the plastic projectile assaults, thanks Captain Obvious. I was referring to his Alpha male "I'll smack a CUNT" bullshit bravado. 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

i see the witch hunt still hasn't ended for this thing.

i still don't think it's worse than existing tech for exploitation, i'll take some idiot abusing this thing over that same idiot with an hpa and a wrench to jack his fps right the way up and go round spraying people with 600fps at 50rps

for sure i support any site's right to ban it, and for sure i agree that cqb sites should definately not allow this thing, but i think for outdoors it's fine and they should ban the idiot players who misuse them rather than the product itself.

hell i'm tempted to get one at this point just to prove how it's not that bad if employed properly with a little common sense (ie using that "most joules" to get a long range shot rather than one that hurts)

 

[EvilMonkee]

And I'd laugh as you got escorted off site.

Seriously, the onus is on the skirmish sites to police these. I suppose you'd punch a guy in the gob for accidentally shooting you under the minimum engagement limit with a sniper? If you don't want to play against people who use this then walk off site before you start a silly fight. If I saw this and the Marshall said the player was allowed to use it I'd politely ask for my money back and go home.

Seems you're in the wrong sport sir. No one deserves physical assault in this hobby.

And you are just being disagreeable, I wasn't being serious, you just seem to want to pick whatever I say to pieces for whatever reason you have.

Its far far from being an 'Alpha' male, as anyone who actually knows me will attest.  It has everything (as Rogerborg has already stated) to do with implied levels of consent within contact sports.  There is an implied level of consent in participation in any contact sport for that contact to be reasonable and in keeping with the rules of the game.  Anything beyond these parameters should rightly be considered assault, and indeed there is case law where this is discussed at length.  Ergo, if someone fires this thing at you it could be construed as assault, in which case I reserve my right to defend myself, perhaps by punching them in the gob.

 

[proffrink]

i see the witch hunt still hasn't ended for this thing.

i still don't think it's worse than existing tech for exploitation, i'll take some idiot abusing this thing over that same idiot with an hpa and a wrench to jack his fps right the way up and go round spraying people with 600fps at 50rps

for sure i support any site's right to ban it, and for sure i agree that cqb sites should definately not allow this thing, but i think for outdoors it's fine and they should ban the idiot players who misuse them rather than the product itself.

hell i'm tempted to get one at this point just to prove how it's not that bad if employed properly with a little common sense (ie using that "most joules" to get a long range shot rather than one that hurts)

I was going to bring this up myself but thought it a silly place to shoehorn in the HPA argument.

I don't know about you but I (and indeed most) can cycle the trigger in less than a second (not a hard thing if you have a trigger with near zero resistance like solenoid HPA and AEGs have): If people using HPA want to they want they can fire bursts of 6-10 BBs at once. With this thing, however: One pulls the trigger and - according to the promotional material - fires 150 BBs in less than .33 of a second. If this is true then that's of course 450+ BB/s (a far cry from the 50 BB/s of some HPA). There's a consciousness of overshooting with certain HPA setups that you just don't get with this and that's why whilst both sets of people deserve scorn if they're hitting you with streams of 20+ BBs, this is just outright silly at closer ranges.

If you shoot this at someone who's under 10m away and hit them with even half the BBs then this is absolutely overshooting to most people. With an MED though I don't see a huge issue so long as you apply the same rule of the 'some idiot' who's cranked up their HPA.

 

[Duff]

And you are just being disagreeable, I wasn't being serious, you just seem to want to pick whatever I say to pieces for whatever reason you have.

Its far far from being an 'Alpha' male, as anyone who actually knows me will attest.  It has everything (as Rogerborg has already stated) to do with implied levels of consent within contact sports.  There is an implied level of consent in participation in any contact sport for that contact to be reasonable and in keeping with the rules of the game.  Anything beyond these parameters should rightly be considered assault, and indeed there is case law where this is discussed at length.  Ergo, if someone fires this thing at you it could be construed as assault, in which case I reserve my right to defend myself, perhaps by punching them in the gob.

If the site allows it and you're hit with it in play you've already consented to it's use against you as per any sites T&C' s.

Actualising physical assault because you're upset is pathetic and you deserve to have half the safezone descend on you.

I'm disagreeing with you because I disagree with your actions or intended actions in this scenario. Also because you seem to bite at the smallest thing.

Going back to the other thread, maybe if you exercised some grammar and literature skills you wouldn't come across as such an aggressive plebian. 

 

[EvilMonkee]

Also should have a comma after it.  Welcome to my ignore list, sole inhabitant....you.  Yet again, you miss the point I am making but by now that's become far too regular and boring to spell it out to you.

You may also want to get out more cos having 2k + posts since January is kind of sad......

 

[Duff]

Also should have a comma after it.  Welcome to my ignore list, sole inhabitant....you.

You!? Lecturing me in grammar?

Off to fuck with you dickhead.

 

[Wo1f]

Now now, children.. 

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

See it didn't take long for this to turn stupid.

If any site allows this then because of its controversial nature it should be queried in the brief if anyone objects. If they do then it shouldn't be used. 

Any player who gets hit by one whether within med or out who loses his shit and lashes out deserves what ever grief they take over it. Don't behave like children over airsoft.

Also I should just point out you two both have the mall down as a site you play at so as there is a possibility of you maybe meeting up please stop the insults. I would hate to think of the consequences of bad blood spilling into a game day.

 

[Duff]

Now now, children.. 

@ImTriggerHappy I have no intention of it, I respect the site way too much to ruin it just for the pleasure of lamping this twat.

 

[EvilMonkee]

See it didn't take long for this to turn stupid.

If any site allows this then because of its controversial nature it should be queried in the brief if anyone objects. If they do then it shouldn't be used. 

Any player who gets hit by one whether within med or out who loses his shit and lashes out deserves what ever grief they take over it. Don't behave like children over airsoft.

Also I should just point out you two both have the mall down as a site you play at so as there is a possibility of you maybe meeting up please stop the insults. I would hate to think of the consequences of bad blood spilling into a game day.

Maybe once a year,  I don't really do skirmishes...hes on ignore now anyway he can go spin himself into a tizzy.  

 

[Wo1f]

Best thing to do if your site allows it is to get your head Marshall to stand there and take a blast of it. Once he’s had a taste then if he still wants to allow it, that’s your decision to stay. (As much as I’d also feel like tw@tting someone who shot me with it)

 

[Adolf Hamster]

I was going to bring this up myself but thought it a silly place to shoehorn in the HPA argument.

I don't know about you but I (and indeed most) can cycle the trigger in less than a second (not a hard thing if you have a trigger with near zero resistance like solenoid HPA and AEGs have): If people using HPA want to they want they can fire bursts of 6-10 BBs at once. With this thing, however: One pulls the trigger and - according to the promotional material - fires 150 BBs in less than .33 of a second. If this is true then that's of course 450+ BB/s (a far cry from the 50 BB/s of some HPA). There's a consciousness of overshooting with certain HPA setups that you just don't get with this and that's why whilst both sets of people deserve scorn if they're hitting you with streams of 20+ BBs, this is just outright silly at closer ranges.

If you shoot this at someone who's under 10m away and hit them with even half the BBs then this is absolutely overshooting to most people. With an MED though I don't see a huge issue so long as you apply the same rule of the 'some idiot' who's cranked up their HPA.

my point is mostly based around the fact you can be a dick with pretty much anything in the airsoft arsenal, i'm pretty sure i could get the same reaction from the neck shot video from any of my aeg's and they aren't even that hot in the scheme of things (hence referencing the hpa's because you can crank those up to stupid rof's in full auto and be shooting hot at the same time).

it's not the product is the problem here, it's how we're assuming it'll be used by most players (helped by some botched marketing and some youtube darwinians).

for sure it's not a CQB thing, but then so's a lot of stuff in airsoft. it's not that much of an issue to me.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Someone fires that at me from 15-20m away they are getting a punch in the gob.

Missing the emoji to show that this was not serious.  I appreciate the sentiment and do not take it seriously, especially based on your background in law enforcement.

I was referring to his Alpha male "I'll smack a CUNT" bullshit bravado. 

The notional person using the 40 mike is the cunt.  However, this is where personal attack is escalated by poor choice of language.

And you are just being disagreeable, I wasn't being serious, you just seem to want to pick whatever I say to pieces for whatever reason you have.

Its far far from being an 'Alpha' male, as anyone who actually knows me will attest. 

Concur, based on empirical fact on the forum.

Actualising physical assault because you're upset is pathetic and you deserve to have half the safezone descend on you.

I'm disagreeing with you because I disagree with your actions or intended actions in this scenario. Also because you seem to bite at the smallest thing.

Going back to the other thread, maybe if you exercised some grammar and literature skills you wouldn't come across as such an aggressive plebian. 

Pot calling kettle black - you are the most aggressive person on this forum; my perception from your tone and the language used.

Also should have a comma after it.  Welcome to my ignore list, sole inhabitant....you.  Yet again, you miss the point I am making but by now that's become far too regular and boring to spell it out to you.

You may also want to get out more cos having 2k + posts since January is kind of sad...

Step away.  [That last riposte did make me laugh, my family is always trying to get me away from spending so long posting]

You!? Lecturing me in grammar?

Off to fuck with you dickhead.

I read that as chav / common /plebian language.

Also I should just point out you two both have the mall down as a site you play at so as there is a possibility of you maybe meeting up please stop the insults. I would hate to think of the consequences of bad blood spilling into a game day.

Good advice.

===========

I am putting this heated exchange down to the weather.   Currently swearing is permitted but that may need revision because being abusive does not add any value to posts, and this forum should be a place where we can respectfully discuss matters. Even ideas we do not like or understand.

I am too busy with real life to start dealing with forum grammar... And England are playing football tonight

 

[Rogerborg]

Since the other thread got locked, I guess I'll have to spawn a new one.  This seems more news-ish than loadout but I guess we'll see.

Well, for a great example of how this thing can cause issues even with good intentions, I have to give Novritsch some traffic.  The salient incident is 35 seconds in.  A player targets a group at a reasonable range, but is surprised by someone breaking from cover a few metres away and instinctively hoses him down.  Ouch.

You can specify MEDs, you can say that shouldn't happen, but the demonstrable reality is that it will.  It's the weapon in your hand, you're keyed to shoot it, it's going to get shot.

He then uses it at a few metres range again, once for audible suppression, then fires again and walks the stream on target to "only" hit with 50 BBs or so.  Perhaps not unreasonable, but we're left to speculate on what would have happened if someone had stuck their head round that corner at the wrong time.  I don't usually like "what if?" arguments, but we've just seen it happen in the same video.

For bonus lulz, he then peppers a marshal while spraying other players.

I agree with Novritsch that if this is going to be used at a site, that full face protection and retention straps on eye protection should be mandatory.  But then I don't think that it should be used, for the reasons shown in that video.