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Should the UK leave the EU?
- Thread starter skarra333
- Start date
Monty
Retired Moderator
- Apr 22, 2012
- 2,846
- 1,407
Last edited by a moderator:
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
Me personally - OUT no question
We are not attached to Europe, The Turkey Visa thing is a concern (google it)
Immigration is only one issue though
You hear of EU court of human rights overturning some of our courts rulings because the possible criminal's cat was inhumanely treated
The £55 Million per day figure is blown out of proportion though - though with rebates it seems to come down to £31 Million
Which seems to about the say number of the working population aprox
However the fees have risen greatly in last 2 or 3 years, think the previous balance or actual costings was £24 Million a day
That is 30% increase - wish my salary went up like that
And with all the crisis so far wtf will it work out next year ???
However - if the parties that be would like to fully explain just wtf the UK actually gets - I mean factually gets please enlighten me
I mean if I got a receipt/bill in a shop I got a full breakdown of where n what was spent exactly....
So if UK is spending £20075000000!!!
or 20 billion quid each year
from say working population paying £1 or more a day aprox or £365 a year or what ever other crap the maths wanna dress it up
Then please enlighten me wtf my money is going if that is not too much to ask.....
There are so much bollox floating about but fact is Cameron only just scraped in coz of EU vote
So now WE have a choice to make (unless it is going to be rigged)
Anyway me personally I think as we have a choice and we are all moaning about EU etc...
Then sod it I'm gonna vote to leave - the saying suck it and see
If I make wrong choice I'll admit I'm wrong but so many people moan this n that
Then when give them the option to vote they have been screaming for...
Their bottle goes and think I'll just stick with it - what and then moan some more later
Obviously it is not down to me or you but the whole country to decide
which most of them can't make up their minds and continue to moan = British public for ya
But I'm thinking - wtf
Let's suck it & see if the world is flat, planes drop out of skies in 2k, and all the other ooh no best play safe
If we screw up and have to go cap in hand then that will please France Germany Brussels no end
As for people not trading with UK and it will be difficult etc....
yeah and of course nobody wants to trade with US or China
Germany won't want to sell us BMW's - well they can sell them to Spain, Portugal, Italy but would hold ya breath flogging many Greece coz they are skint
Look truth be told nobody knows for sure if it will be best IN or OUT
But me I'm gonna vote OUT and see once and for all what happens next
No expert will persuade me otherwise or I will spend my years wondering what if
Vote how YOU feel - I won't hold any grudge as sure many have their strong opinions
Just don't believe all the bollox - not even mine, but I did a tiny bit of digging to satisfy my thoughts on the matter
Roll on June 23rd and lets get it over with
We are not attached to Europe, The Turkey Visa thing is a concern (google it)
Immigration is only one issue though
You hear of EU court of human rights overturning some of our courts rulings because the possible criminal's cat was inhumanely treated
The £55 Million per day figure is blown out of proportion though - though with rebates it seems to come down to £31 Million
Which seems to about the say number of the working population aprox
However the fees have risen greatly in last 2 or 3 years, think the previous balance or actual costings was £24 Million a day
That is 30% increase - wish my salary went up like that
And with all the crisis so far wtf will it work out next year ???
However - if the parties that be would like to fully explain just wtf the UK actually gets - I mean factually gets please enlighten me
I mean if I got a receipt/bill in a shop I got a full breakdown of where n what was spent exactly....
So if UK is spending £20075000000!!!
or 20 billion quid each year
from say working population paying £1 or more a day aprox or £365 a year or what ever other crap the maths wanna dress it up
Then please enlighten me wtf my money is going if that is not too much to ask.....
There are so much bollox floating about but fact is Cameron only just scraped in coz of EU vote
So now WE have a choice to make (unless it is going to be rigged)
Anyway me personally I think as we have a choice and we are all moaning about EU etc...
Then sod it I'm gonna vote to leave - the saying suck it and see
If I make wrong choice I'll admit I'm wrong but so many people moan this n that
Then when give them the option to vote they have been screaming for...
Their bottle goes and think I'll just stick with it - what and then moan some more later
Obviously it is not down to me or you but the whole country to decide
which most of them can't make up their minds and continue to moan = British public for ya
But I'm thinking - wtf
Let's suck it & see if the world is flat, planes drop out of skies in 2k, and all the other ooh no best play safe
If we screw up and have to go cap in hand then that will please France Germany Brussels no end
As for people not trading with UK and it will be difficult etc....
yeah and of course nobody wants to trade with US or China
Germany won't want to sell us BMW's - well they can sell them to Spain, Portugal, Italy but would hold ya breath flogging many Greece coz they are skint
Look truth be told nobody knows for sure if it will be best IN or OUT
But me I'm gonna vote OUT and see once and for all what happens next
No expert will persuade me otherwise or I will spend my years wondering what if
Vote how YOU feel - I won't hold any grudge as sure many have their strong opinions
Just don't believe all the bollox - not even mine, but I did a tiny bit of digging to satisfy my thoughts on the matter
Roll on June 23rd and lets get it over with
Last edited by a moderator:
jcheeseright
Supporters
- Jun 14, 2012
- 4,280
- 2,261
The reason trade is so easy within the eurozone is tax, at the moment if you want to export something to France the taxes are either non existent or very small... if you want to trade with the US or China then suddenly things get more expensive.
I'll be voting to stay in, not least because immigration is a tiny issue that's been MASSIVELY blown out of proportion by the media.
I'll be voting to stay in, not least because immigration is a tiny issue that's been MASSIVELY blown out of proportion by the media.
sp00n
Supporters
- Mar 27, 2013
- 2,210
- 874
The problem with Europe is simple, some member states get a fairer deal then others.
Let's take France for 2 quick examples, how the hell did they manage to ban the burker??? (Or what ever it's called)
And how do they get away with fine'ing people from the uk who drive over there for not having a hi-vis jacket etc, when there own people are not required to have one?
And the bill of human rights is a joke, under it a prisoner has rights then an average person. The only people who benefit from it are lawyers!
Europe was a good experiment but it's time to end it
Let's take France for 2 quick examples, how the hell did they manage to ban the burker??? (Or what ever it's called)
And how do they get away with fine'ing people from the uk who drive over there for not having a hi-vis jacket etc, when there own people are not required to have one?
And the bill of human rights is a joke, under it a prisoner has rights then an average person. The only people who benefit from it are lawyers!
Europe was a good experiment but it's time to end it
Last edited by a moderator:
Sitting Duck
Supporters
- May 11, 2014
- 4,894
- 1,735
For the record if you look at your GunFire bills you do pay the tax or VAT at a higher rate than UK
Now it is not perfect, exporting/importing should be tax free from that country
and then you pay duty on arrival in country of destination outside EU etc....
but tax duty is still paid to EU country but not to UK and is higher than 20%
However the good ol' customs has not raised the value of goods to value of £28 figure in ooh last 20 years or so
We could go on about this all night/week/month(s)
but truth be told I'm gonna say wtf and vote to leave
Thing is even if you vote yes - at least you got some backbone
it is the people who don't vote that need to cease moaning after 23rd June
I will vote and sure many others will so therefore we will be entitled to carry on moaning one way or other
Now it is not perfect, exporting/importing should be tax free from that country
and then you pay duty on arrival in country of destination outside EU etc....
but tax duty is still paid to EU country but not to UK and is higher than 20%
However the good ol' customs has not raised the value of goods to value of £28 figure in ooh last 20 years or so
We could go on about this all night/week/month(s)
but truth be told I'm gonna say wtf and vote to leave
Thing is even if you vote yes - at least you got some backbone
it is the people who don't vote that need to cease moaning after 23rd June
I will vote and sure many others will so therefore we will be entitled to carry on moaning one way or other
Last edited by a moderator:
Rock-climby-Dave
Retired Moderator
- Dec 29, 2009
- 2,309
- 296
Have to say I'm impressed, 8 posts in and there hasn't been a slagging match yet!
My vote is well and truly OUT. I'll make no bones about it. My reason is not one that has had ANY media coverage:
It's not democratic.
God damn, I live in a democracy, I WANT TO VOTE FOR MY LEADERS!
Beyond that, the further removed from an individual a decision is made, the less well implemented that decision will be for said individual and the smaller the voice of the individual.
What I mean is that you know best for you, but you don't have time to deal with some stuff, like sorting bin collections and maintaining your sewage pipes, so you elect someone to do that for you. They do a pretty reasonable job all things considered, whether you vote left or right wing, your council usually does a reasonable job in your area.
Beyond the council is the central government. They tend to NOT do things as efficiently as your council. They don't CARE that there is a pot hole on your road and won't do anything to aid you, the individual. The government is necessary (as far as most are concerned) for bigger picture stuff, large spending for communities that share similar interests, traditions and whose people (for the most part) share similar values.
What we've gone and done is add another level of government which we don't directly elect (so becomes very quickly undemocratic, corrupt and no-one knows who is to blame for cockups and financial waste) that tries to bring together countries, whose populations are historically competitive or hostile towards each other, who do not share the same values, traditions or ideas and tell us to 'get along nicely' and obviously, we pay for the privilege.
heres an example:
Imagine that the counties in england were countries and UKGov. were the EU.
UKGov says 'new law! we're going to subsidise Yorkshire puddings at the shops, all counties MUST pay this subsidy because it will benfit everyone equally!
'
Yorkshirefolk are obviously overjoyed, they're getting cheap puddin's. Great success.
Most other counties are ambivalent to this, it doesn't affect them really, I mean Cornwall can have the puddings, but they prefer Icecream anyway.
Those bastards in Lancashire are obviously NOT happy. This is a grim day. Yorkshire Puddings, the food of their enemies, has been subsidised but we now have to add more money to the price of Lancashire HotPot to pay the extra tax for the pudding subsidy.
What SHOULD happen is this:
Yorkshirefolk want puddings subsidised, they raise the taxes themselves as they will benefit from this, maybe an increase on the cost of new whippet puppies will cover it and it seems fair.
Cornwall like the idea, so they copy the law that they like but change it slightly to suit their local requirements. Hooray, cheap icecream!
Lancashire look over the wall between themselves and 'Gods own county' and see this new law. They don't like it, how could Yorkshire ever come up with any good ideas? Lancashire decide not to copy it as it doesn't benefit their populace in any way, shape or form.
THAT is why we should leave. Something about Yorkshire puddings.
and now I'm hungry.
My vote is well and truly OUT. I'll make no bones about it. My reason is not one that has had ANY media coverage:
It's not democratic.
God damn, I live in a democracy, I WANT TO VOTE FOR MY LEADERS!
Beyond that, the further removed from an individual a decision is made, the less well implemented that decision will be for said individual and the smaller the voice of the individual.
What I mean is that you know best for you, but you don't have time to deal with some stuff, like sorting bin collections and maintaining your sewage pipes, so you elect someone to do that for you. They do a pretty reasonable job all things considered, whether you vote left or right wing, your council usually does a reasonable job in your area.
Beyond the council is the central government. They tend to NOT do things as efficiently as your council. They don't CARE that there is a pot hole on your road and won't do anything to aid you, the individual. The government is necessary (as far as most are concerned) for bigger picture stuff, large spending for communities that share similar interests, traditions and whose people (for the most part) share similar values.
What we've gone and done is add another level of government which we don't directly elect (so becomes very quickly undemocratic, corrupt and no-one knows who is to blame for cockups and financial waste) that tries to bring together countries, whose populations are historically competitive or hostile towards each other, who do not share the same values, traditions or ideas and tell us to 'get along nicely' and obviously, we pay for the privilege.
heres an example:
Imagine that the counties in england were countries and UKGov. were the EU.
UKGov says 'new law! we're going to subsidise Yorkshire puddings at the shops, all counties MUST pay this subsidy because it will benfit everyone equally!
'Yorkshirefolk are obviously overjoyed, they're getting cheap puddin's. Great success.
Most other counties are ambivalent to this, it doesn't affect them really, I mean Cornwall can have the puddings, but they prefer Icecream anyway.
Those bastards in Lancashire are obviously NOT happy. This is a grim day. Yorkshire Puddings, the food of their enemies, has been subsidised but we now have to add more money to the price of Lancashire HotPot to pay the extra tax for the pudding subsidy.
What SHOULD happen is this:
Yorkshirefolk want puddings subsidised, they raise the taxes themselves as they will benefit from this, maybe an increase on the cost of new whippet puppies will cover it and it seems fair.
Cornwall like the idea, so they copy the law that they like but change it slightly to suit their local requirements. Hooray, cheap icecream!
Lancashire look over the wall between themselves and 'Gods own county' and see this new law. They don't like it, how could Yorkshire ever come up with any good ideas? Lancashire decide not to copy it as it doesn't benefit their populace in any way, shape or form.
THAT is why we should leave. Something about Yorkshire puddings.
and now I'm hungry.
- Jun 28, 2015
- 4,289
- 1,228
I am with Boris on this one - time to leave the EU.
Hungry Yorkshiremen shouldn't be allowed near keyboards...Have to say I'm impressed, 8 posts in and there hasn't been a slagging match yet!
My vote is well and truly OUT. I'll make no bones about it. My reason is not one that has had ANY media coverage:
It's not democratic.
God damn, I live in a democracy, I WANT TO VOTE FOR MY LEADERS!
Beyond that, the further removed from an individual a decision is made, the less well implemented that decision will be for said individual and the smaller the voice of the individual.
What I mean is that you know best for you, but you don't have time to deal with some stuff, like sorting bin collections and maintaining your sewage pipes, so you elect someone to do that for you. They do a pretty reasonable job all things considered, whether you vote left or right wing, your council usually does a reasonable job in your area.
Beyond the council is the central government. They tend to NOT do things as efficiently as your council. They don't CARE that there is a pot hole on your road and won't do anything to aid you, the individual. The government is necessary (as far as most are concerned) for bigger picture stuff, large spending for communities that share similar interests, traditions and whose people (for the most part) share similar values.
What we've gone and done is add another level of government which we don't directly elect (so becomes very quickly undemocratic, corrupt and no-one knows who is to blame for cockups and financial waste) that tries to bring together countries, whose populations are historically competitive or hostile towards each other, who do not share the same values, traditions or ideas and tell us to 'get along nicely' and obviously, we pay for the privilege.
heres an example:
Imagine that the counties in england were countries and UKGov. were the EU.
UKGov says 'new law! we're going to subsidise Yorkshire puddings at the shops, all counties MUST pay this subsidy because it will benfit everyone equally!
Yorkshirefolk are obviously overjoyed, they're getting cheap puddin's. Great success.
Most other counties are ambivalent to this, it doesn't affect them really, I mean Cornwall can have the puddings, but they prefer Icecream anyway.
Those bastards in Lancashire are obviously NOT happy. This is a grim day. Yorkshire Puddings, the food of their enemies, has been subsidised but we now have to add more money to the price of Lancashire HotPot to pay the extra tax for the pudding subsidy.
What SHOULD happen is this:
Yorkshirefolk want puddings subsidised, they raise the taxes themselves as they will benefit from this, maybe an increase on the cost of new whippet puppies will cover it and it seems fair.
Cornwall like the idea, so they copy the law that they like but change it slightly to suit their local requirements. Hooray, cheap icecream!
Lancashire look over the wall between themselves and 'Gods own county' and see this new law. They don't like it, how could Yorkshire ever come up with any good ideas? Lancashire decide not to copy it as it doesn't benefit their populace in any way, shape or form.
THAT is why we should leave. Something about Yorkshire puddings.
and now I'm hungry.
My vote right now is OUT. I'm happy for Brussels to put something on the table to change my mind, but to be honest, we need a clear, objective, unbiased comparison of the two potential futures on mainstream media to help everyone decide.
My old man offered me a ten pound bet today, he thinks that the UK will vote out, Cameron will resign (like Alex Salmon did when he didn't get his way with Scotland) and the Tories will put Boris Johnson in number 10...
I might take the bet and hope to God that the lovable idiot isn't allowed the chance... Bo jo that is
Am going to be voting in. Trade is much easier as part of the eu for reasons already mentioned tax, etc. I don't see imagination as a massive issue. There are some ludicrous figures banded around but its net migration That people should be looking at. Net migration was on 330000 or so. Yes that may be a record high but look at what that means. We have a strong growing economy that people flock towards. These people come here work hard pay tax and are resonable for very little of the welfer bill. Ask yourself this, if we refuse migrants access who will fill the massive jobs whole we currently have in this country? Am not talking about the 10000 people all applying for one post grad job. I mean the real jobs, the people who travel all this way to work leave there family and life behind them are usually very very driven. They work hard and do so for the same rate as uk citizens. The simple fact is people in this country are lazy. We are very quick to blame others for are own failings. I know that U.K. Businesses would rather higher Britishs citizens but there aren't enough.
Let's say we leave and say no more people in the door is closed. How do u propose we staff the nhs? What if all the eu countries stop uk citizens moving their, that's what I would do.
I do agree that there needs to be change and I do t think Cameron's steps go far enough but for me we are still better in than out.
As my nan would say, it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Let's say we leave and say no more people in the door is closed. How do u propose we staff the nhs? What if all the eu countries stop uk citizens moving their, that's what I would do.
I do agree that there needs to be change and I do t think Cameron's steps go far enough but for me we are still better in than out.
As my nan would say, it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Esoterick
Supporters
- Jul 27, 2013
- 962
- 610
This is the main thing encouraging me to vote to stay in the EU. Theresa May has absolutely no idea what she is doing.
Zak Da Mack
Members
- Nov 30, 2012
- 926
- 406
Any country can ban the burka. It hasn't happened here because the government is against that idea.
When you're in another country, you must obey their laws. French citizens must carry hi-vis jackets by law as well, but it's likely French police check GB plates more than FR ones as they know we're less likely to carry the jackets, and they get increased income from fines
EvilMonkee
Members
- Feb 17, 2014
- 2,346
- 1,328
Out. Absolutely.
Sovereignty is the key for me. Immigration is all a smoke screen for bigger issues. Go look up TTIP (Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership). Read the articles on what the EU is negotiating in secret with the USA and tell me its a good thing. Backdoor for NHS privatization, imposition of lax American drug laws and food safety, big companies having even more say in Govt policy. There is a lot more but I will stop there. Seriously, whatever you think go inform yourself about TTIP and the impact it will have. And its being negotiated by the EU with zero say from its citizens. In secret and the Govt is keeping quiet about it. Completely undemocratic bullshit. And thats why I want out...
As for the argument that it will be a 'leap in the dark' - no it wont - we coped fine without the EU before we joined it - we only joined in the 70s remember. We also did not vote to join a European superstate we voted to join a free trade zone which we can still do if we leave the EU. Plus remember its just as risky if not more so to stay in the EU as they can't predict what the future will hold either. At least if we have our country back we can be the masters of our own destiny.
People who scare monger over jobs going etc etc are silly. The EU doesn't create jobs (the opposite if anything with the regulations on small businesses). If you really think that the EU and the rest of the world are suddenly going to stop trading with us as we are now outside the EU then you are deluded. We are the worlds 5th largest economy and the financial capital of the world, business will adjust and we will continue as we were. Most of our trade isn't to the EU anyway - 56% of our trade is to other nations not the EU. We pay £55m a day to stay in. Thats £20bn per year. That would at a stroke wipe out our defecit and leave enough to give all public sector works a much needed pay rise.
I could go on and on but its late. If you take nothing from this post take this - don't believe a thing the Govt tells you - go do some reading on the subject from both sides. Be informed. its not doom and gloom if we leave there will be life after the EU and I look forward to it.
Sovereignty is the key for me. Immigration is all a smoke screen for bigger issues. Go look up TTIP (Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership). Read the articles on what the EU is negotiating in secret with the USA and tell me its a good thing. Backdoor for NHS privatization, imposition of lax American drug laws and food safety, big companies having even more say in Govt policy. There is a lot more but I will stop there. Seriously, whatever you think go inform yourself about TTIP and the impact it will have. And its being negotiated by the EU with zero say from its citizens. In secret and the Govt is keeping quiet about it. Completely undemocratic bullshit. And thats why I want out...
As for the argument that it will be a 'leap in the dark' - no it wont - we coped fine without the EU before we joined it - we only joined in the 70s remember. We also did not vote to join a European superstate we voted to join a free trade zone which we can still do if we leave the EU. Plus remember its just as risky if not more so to stay in the EU as they can't predict what the future will hold either. At least if we have our country back we can be the masters of our own destiny.
People who scare monger over jobs going etc etc are silly. The EU doesn't create jobs (the opposite if anything with the regulations on small businesses). If you really think that the EU and the rest of the world are suddenly going to stop trading with us as we are now outside the EU then you are deluded. We are the worlds 5th largest economy and the financial capital of the world, business will adjust and we will continue as we were. Most of our trade isn't to the EU anyway - 56% of our trade is to other nations not the EU. We pay £55m a day to stay in. Thats £20bn per year. That would at a stroke wipe out our defecit and leave enough to give all public sector works a much needed pay rise.
I could go on and on but its late. If you take nothing from this post take this - don't believe a thing the Govt tells you - go do some reading on the subject from both sides. Be informed. its not doom and gloom if we leave there will be life after the EU and I look forward to it.
Rock-climby-Dave
Retired Moderator
- Dec 29, 2009
- 2,309
- 296
I hope you mean Doctors, Teachers, Police and Fire crews, not civil servants and bureaucrats here
EvilMonkee
Members
- Feb 17, 2014
- 2,346
- 1,328
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