Rif law

[ratmandan]

I wouldn't be breaking the law owning an Rif

I wouldn't have broke any laws buying one from "joe blogs at a car boot sale already painted this colour your honour" he would of though, go catch him officer he might be there next week I very much doubt they would bother!

Or my friend gave it to me before he moved to Australia

I could think up a fair few more reasons but I cannot be arsed as it doesn't matter

So unless I got caught painting it Iv broken no laws in the eyes of the law

In court it's up to the prosecution to prove you did whatever you are being accused of. Which they would not be able to do unless you were caught painting a gun paints tests or not there would be no evindence so no case.

 

[ratmandan]

Sorry about the double post friggin thought I hadn't sent the first one stupid friggen ipad

 

[TPI]

I Know you wouldn't be braking the law owning a RIF.............................................................................

....................................

No you wouldn't but he would and could say he sold it to you two-tone besides all Car Boot's i have taken part in have at least 1 set of the Old Bill and the event organiser's take down your Plate Number to Make sure each person has paid their bit

Gave it to you fine don't see any trouble's their though if you have the one's that have had a bad day or an especially Annoying Poke hole's in their story cop i'd rather be doing it my way

gonna through away the Paint Can's aye?

^^^^^

which actual part are we debating again?

 

[jcheeseright]

Having read this I think I'll pile in with my point of view.

Manufacturing a RIF without a defence is a crime, there's no disputing that, however, proving that someone has manufactured said RIF is pretty difficult and entirely impractical for the police to do. Providing you are a responsible person who uses their RIF for airsoft there is absolutely no reason the police could ever even know you'd done it. Additionally, 'proving a defence' is pretty woolly in itself, and UKARA is by no means the only way of doing so, nor is it formally recognised by the law.

I'm not UKARA registered, although I meet the criteria and could have my local site register me, I don't see the point at the moment at all, I can prove my 'defence' really very easily to any police officer that asks (and have done so) simply by providing the phone number of the site I play at regularly. All the copper is going to do is call them and ask "does James Cheeseright play at your site?" the response will be "yes" and that'll be the end of it.

As a specific example, I own a Scar-L, it's my baby. When I bought it, in order to save hassle (like I said, not registered) I ordered it from zero one and had it 2toned, very straightforward, didn't slow down the shipping and no questions asked. As soon as the gun arrived in my house, I stripped it down and removed every trace of the green paint with some fairy powerspray, thus manufacturing a RIF. Within a fortnight I got a knock on the door from some firearms officers as I had ordered a real-steel (lol, what a ridiculous term) EOTech riser from brownells.com in the states which had been held by customs. They of course wanted to know what I was doing buying gun parts from America, so I showed them. Took them upstairs to my bedroom and let them have a look at my M4, my SCAR and my 5-7. Bear in mind these were firearms officers and so knew what it was they were looking at, no probing questions, no "are you UKARA registered?", just a pair of policemen who turned into 15 year old boys for 20 mins when they got to play with a couple of replica assault rifles.

In conclusion then, paint your gun, as long as you're satisfied that you can prove you have a valid use for a RIF you're safe. Ignore the "OMG YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT UKARA, POLICEZ ARE GONNA SHOOT YOU!!!" crowd, the policemen that came to check I wasn't a nutter didn't even know what UKARA was and neither did they care.

 

[Alexb111]

In conclusion then, paint your gun, as long as you're satisfied that you can prove you have a valid use for a RIF you're safe. Ignore the "OMG YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT UKARA, POLICEZ ARE GONNA SHOOT YOU!!!" crowd, the policemen that came to check I wasn't a nutter didn't even know what UKARA was and neither did they care.

Depends on who you get really, Firearms officers are usually carrying big guns, highly professional and in life threatening situations which means when their on a job their usually very serious until their confident there's no danger.

I tend to find people with those kind of jobs actually relish the easier jobs where they can relax a bit, I mean their people too

As long as you make it clear its a toy/replica straight away and then just talk to them you should be fine. Joke a bit (pick your joke with a bit of care though ), make them feel at home and their more likely to overlook small issues.

As has been previously said technically your being illegal by manufacturing but if the police are reasonable and you prove your a normal guy and not a nutter/terrorist they usually follow the line of: 'We have bigger problems than this guy' or 'I can't be bothered to run this guy in and spend the time and money getting forensics to check on if it really is a RIF or a 2tone illegally sprayed.'

Finally skirmishing local where the site owners answer the phone is usually the best piece of evidence you can possibly have. It turns a good chance of prosecution into a lengthy court case with no guarantee depending on lawyers and the judge which is usually far too much effort unless the police dislike you or have a reason to suspect you. Its no UKARA but a good lawyer can argue it as a defence on whats really a gray area of the law.

Finally: Whats the point? 3 skirmishes in 2+ months really isn't hard, and if your spending that much on a RIF or 2tone sprayed it won't hurt too much just to do the skirmishes. They really have made it easy for people, I don't see why people insist on looking for ways round it!! - Actually thats going in the haters thread.

 

[jcheeseright]

I'm not getting round the VCRA, I've been 100% compliant, I just don't see the point in registering with UKARA (I have played enough skirmishes at one site to qualify) when there's absolutely no need to do so?

 

[TPI]

Cheese your right and you too Alex

 

[Alexb111]

Heres a question I've never asked: Is it free to register for UKARA? - Not including skirmishes obv

I always thought it was just a form to fill in.

If so then you have two choices:

If you meet the fuzz your quite likely to spend a few hours sorting it out.

Or, you can just fill 1 form out, get it sent off and you can be almost completely sure to have no problems if your ever stopped or questions.

I think my point stands even more in this situation, is it really worth the problem for the time it takes to fill a form in.

If it does cost for UKARA I see your point, yet still Im just looking at the pro's and cons of doing it non ukara and with ukara. Its just seems the easiest way to be sure...

 

[TPI]

it is free but site's charge you membership otherwise they won't sign your Sheet

 

[Liam Porter]

None of the sites I've been to have charged any membership or anything. Simply just turn up to your first game, ask about UKARA and they'll give you a first stamp (date, signature and stamp), then bring the sheet along the next couple of times to get the final stamps. Then they add you to the database and send an email your UKARA details once done.

 

[ratmandan]

And then I find this....

http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Kalashnikov...fle_A14VVE.aspx

Really!

An air rifle has a purpose hunting/vermin control this is just stupid...

 

[ScoobySnacks]

And then I find this....http://www.actionhobbies.co.uk/Kalashnikov...fle_A14VVE.aspx

Really!

An air rifle has a purpose hunting/vermin control this is just stupid...

Not sure on your point Dan.

The AK is classed as a firearm. It isn't an imitation firearm, it is a real one. Albeit a real one that is classified as a type that is "less dangerous" and can be held without a licence.

It has nothing to do with airsoft weapons in any way. It is not an imitation firearm and so doesn't fall under the same rules as imitation firearms.

It might seem easier to buy one, but actually to purchase an air gun that is a firearm you need to turn up in person, prove who you are, your age etc. (and have those details recorded on an official record). Airsoft weapons can be bought by post, and you are under no compunction to leave any details when you buy one. It is legal to sell airsoft weapons without being a registered firearms dealer, it is not legal to sell an airgun that is a firearm without an RFD certificate. (For information, a "firearm" is defined as "a lethal barrelled weapon". An airsoft weapon gets away with it because the energy level is low enough that it is not considered "lethal"

As for using air rifles for killing vermin, yes, absolutely capable of it. The BB gun you linked to isn't, but a proper air rifle is more than capable of taking small ground game (rabbits, squirrels, hare) and vermin (rats, mice, wood and feral pigeon) at sensible ranges. Many people put a lot of food on the table with air guns. But don't try it with an airsoft gun!

 

[ratmandan]

My point is that there is a load of bollocks written in the law about restricting TOY GUNS to the general Populus

And yet any tw*t can buy a completely pointless ak47 REPLICA "using many real parts" that fires steel ball bearings (more dangerous than an airsoft gun) and it's a replica and anyone could buy it and give it to anybody else as after the initial purchase.

 

[ratmandan]

I do think a .2 at 495 fps would do the job on a mouse though

 

[Richard65]

My point is that there is a load of bollocks written in the law about restricting TOY GUNS to the general PopulusAnd yet any tw*t can buy a completely pointless ak47 REPLICA "using many real parts" that fires steel ball bearings (more dangerous than an airsoft gun) and it's a replica and anyone could buy it and give it to anybody else as after the initial purchase.

I know you could buy an air rifle or pistol if you are over 18 but it would be illegal to give it to anyone who is under 18.

I did a quick search for Replica AK47 and all the sites had a note about the VCR act. The only one I found that was being sold without restriction was a deactivated one thhat would not fire any projectile.

From the point of view of restricting the sale of RIFs that could be used to scare someone then I must agree that the VCR has too many holes in it to be effective. On the other hand, the need for a valid defence for airsoft guns should make it less likely that any potential bad guy would not bother trying to get one but buy an airgun or deactivated one instead.

Maybe that could make a difference if they try to tighten the law and would be enough to allow airsofters to continue buying RIFs.

 

[Alexb111]

The reason is regulation as stated before.

Since airsoft guns are "toys" they cannot be properly regulated or restricted (mail order etc) and the under 18 question is in effect too with RIF gifts.

When you buy an air rifle your name and address are taken so if your spotted in public its pretty easy for the police to trace who in the area has a gun of that type and even a poor description could easily lead to your arrest and at the least removal of your firearm.

On the other hand if you rob a bank with an airsoft gun there could be hundreds of people of similar build and description (assuming a balaclava or whatever is worn to cover obvious points) who could have been the robber(s). Even with video footage of the gun and your outline they still have no idea who in the UK has airsoft guns and how many or what kind. This is why they have to put some restriction on it to try and make sure nutters can't get RIF's as easy as an internet order. But the police couldn't go as far as to take full details per purchase as its still a toy. Remember in some countries any RIF is illegal and in some airsoft guns even 2tone are illegal!! :S

Furthermore, since airsoft guns are designed to be used against people (even though every gun manual states do not shoot at people) and air rifles are for shooting small animals there is some difference in people's perspectives (politicians mainly).

Finally the law is the law, even if its stupid you have to follow it or risk being arrested. To change it would require many court battles and a lot of money and political clout which I don't imagine internet forums have. Only thing you can do is talk to your MP but lowering firearms restrictions isn't a known vote winner

Do I think there should be heavier restrictions on air rifles: Yes

Do I think UKARA and similar are reasonable restrictions but not over the top: Yes

But the point is it won't be changed by us talking about it.

 

[ratmandan]

You can give an airgun to 14 to 17 yearolds who can use on private land unsupervised...

And the link above shows the "airgun" in question it is a replica of an ak47 which is purchasable by anyone with a driving licence and once has left the shop untracable.

I don't really care anyway as I'm not breaking anylaws at the moment....anybody know where you can get small cans of spray paint want olive green a lighter green and a brown my ummmmrifle case isn't that big

 

[TPI]

....

 

[Richard65]

You can give an airgun to 14 to 17 yearolds who can use on private land unsupervised...And the link above shows the "airgun" in question it is a replica of an ak47 which is purchasable by anyone with a driving licence and once has left the shop untracable.

You can loan an airgun to 14-17 year olds but you can not gift it to them. Yes, they can use it on private land but they can not carry it there and back unless supervised by someone over 21.

For any 17 year old airsofter who can drive themselves it would be useful to carry a site membership cardm just in case they do get stopped and the police start suggesting their gun is an airgun, as carrying those would be illegal.

No wonder you rarely see a poverty skricken lawyer!

 

[ScoobySnacks]

You can loan an airgun to 14-17 year olds but you can not gift it to them. Yes, they can use it on private land but they can not carry it there and back unless supervised by someone over 21.
For any 17 year old airsofter who can drive themselves it would be useful to carry a site membership cardm just in case they do get stopped and the police start suggesting their gun is an airgun, as carrying those would be illegal.

No wonder you rarely see a poverty skricken lawyer!

Alex, why should airguns have more restriction?

I use all sorts of firearms, from airsoft guns right up to deer legal rifles, and invariably the legislation relating to them is unreasonably restrictive, and really doesn't do anything to improve public safety.

Anyone who uses guns of any sort needs to support other legal gun users. It's no good saying "yes, I support more legislation and restrictions on HIS guns" and then complaining when the new rules are extended to YOUR guns too!